Opening Testing #'s

[The Franchise]

4.6 is a very fast laser (FAT) timed 40. That could be 4.45-4.55 at the NFL combine, which is not FAT, but ET - hand started and laser finished (though they record FAT times, they still do not release them).

Here are the differences between HH (hand timed) and ET for the same 40 run by the fastest guys at the combine over the past several years. The FAT time (how they time the kids at these combines) would almost certainly be slower in every single case.

ET Time,(HH time) Player, Position, College, Year, * - Underclassman
4.24 - (4.24) Chris Johnson, (RB), East Carolina - 2008
4.26 - (4.16) Dri Archer, (WR), Kent State - 2014
4.27 - (4.21) Marquise Goodwin, (WR), Texas - 2013
4.28 - (4.22) Jacoby Ford, (WR), Clemson - 2010
4.28 - (4.25) Demarcus Van Dyke, (CB), Miami - 2011
4.30 - (4.25) *Darrius Heyward-Bey, (WR), Maryland - 2009
4.32 - (4.26) Jerome Mathis, (WR), Hampton - 2005
4.33 - (4.29) *Fabian Washington, (CB), Nebraska - 2005
4.33 - (4.28) Mike Wallace, (WR), Mississippi - 2009
4.33 - (4.29) Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, (CB), Tennessee State - 2008
4.33 - (4.29) *Josh Robinson, (CB), Central Florida - 2012
4.34 - (4.21) Trindon Holliday, (WR), LSU - 2010
4.34 - (4.28) Ryan Swope, (WR), Texas A&M - 2013
4.34 - (4.28) Tavon Austin, (WR), West Virginia - 2013
4.34 - (4.28) Onterio McCalebb, (RB), Auburn - 2013
4.34 - (4.29) Johnny Knox, (WR), Abilene Christian - 2009
4.34 - (4.30) Darrent Williams, (CB), Oklahoma State - 2005
4.34 - (4.31) *Patrick Peterson, (CB), LSU - 2011
4.35 - (4.30) Yamon Figurs, (WR), Kansas State - 2007
4.36 - (4.28) *Stephen Hill, (WR), Georgia Tech - 2012
4.37 - (4.27) C.J. Spiller, (RB), Clemson - 2010
4.37 - (4.31) Justin Gilbert, (CB), Oklahoma State - 2014
4.39 - (4.27) Stanford Routt, (CB), Houston - 2005
4.40 - (4.30) Mike Thomas, (WR), Arizona - 2009
4.43 - (4.31) Taylor Mays, (FS), Southern Cal - 2010

Note that only Chris Johnson's HH time matched his ET time - everyone else was faster using HH timing. Some of those are pretty bad... a 0.12 difference between ET and HH could easily be 0.2 or more of a difference between HH and FAT. Hence, a kid who runs a 4.6 could very well be hand timed at 4.4.

As an aside, expect John Ross to have the fastest time at the combine. He has supposedly run a 4.30 FAT 40 very recently.

Shocking how many of those elite 40 speed guys didn't really pan out in the NFL.

 

[The Franchise]

Avantae testing numbers for his age and class are actually pretty good. Darrian Felix who posted crazy scores his senior year wasn't even that good at the same stage.

Some of these measurements can tend to be a little off too despite what some have said in here. The Opening in Miami last year needed adjustments after the head shots came in of the height and weigh ins from the event.

I had people who were there at the event. Mark Pope is barely taller than Gurvan and before he decided to scratch his numbers, his height and weigh in was 6'1" 175.

By all accounts. Warren Thompson and Brian Hightower were some of the really tall WRs and both came in about 2 inches shorter than expected.

5'10".5 compared to 6'1" is a bit of a drop off, talking about almost 3 inches. That's noticeable. I've met Gurvan and Amari in person. They are about the same height. At worst Gurvan is 5'11" no shoes or cleats on.

Regardless, none of that matters.

If you ever played football before you know the measurables always exaggerated. Taken with shoes or cleats on as well. Brandon Meriweather was listed 6'1" at Miami his whole career and showed up to the combine 5'11". Same for Sean Spence.

I will say 173 sounds a bit way too light for Gurvan physique if you have ever seen him. Everyone carries weight different though I guess.

Geo, they weighed Gurvan. Do you think they microwaved him prior to putting him on the scale to get him down to 173? You're guessing at heights and weights. They don't guess. They measure and weigh.

There are always discrepancies in 40 times between events. But height and weight is super easy to measure with accuracy.

 

[Hurricane Warrior]

[MENTION=12910]Brooklyndee[/MENTION] Any comments or insights on the day or the numbers posted?

 

[Brooklyndee]

[MENTION=12910]Brooklyndee[/MENTION] Any comments or insights on the day or the numbers posted?

Honestly it's no so much a knock on them but other than the real big time events like the opening itself,future 50 etc it's usually all very unorganized. You take it all with a grain of salt. 40s in alot of instances are ran in horrible conditions. Windy,wet grass,mud. Barefoot,tracks hoes. It's just really a mess at the kids discretion. Same weigh with heights etc cause there isnt a set rule of take off ur shoes & stand straight right here back against the wall etc. Kids pick or choose how they walk up. Camps unless you got actual competition going on (like paradise or the opening)are just a way for kids to be seen & people to make money & get sponsorships for kids & themselves.

 

[Brock Berlin]

Avantae testing numbers for his age and class are actually pretty good. Darrian Felix who posted crazy scores his senior year wasn't even that good at the same stage.

Some of these measurements can tend to be a little off too despite what some have said in here. The Opening in Miami last year needed adjustments after the head shots came in of the height and weigh ins from the event.

I had people who were there at the event. Mark Pope is barely taller than Gurvan and before he decided to scratch his numbers, his height and weigh in was 6'1" 175.

By all accounts. Warren Thompson and Brian Hightower were some of the really tall WRs and both came in about 2 inches shorter than expected.

5'10".5 compared to 6'1" is a bit of a drop off, talking about almost 3 inches. That's noticeable. I've met Gurvan and Amari in person. They are about the same height. At worst Gurvan is 5'11" no shoes or cleats on.

Regardless, none of that matters.

If you ever played football before you know the measurables always exaggerated. Taken with shoes or cleats on as well. Brandon Meriweather was listed 6'1" at Miami his whole career and showed up to the combine 5'11". Same for Sean Spence.

I will say 173 sounds a bit way too light for Gurvan physique if you have ever seen him. Everyone carries weight different though I guess.

Geo, they weighed Gurvan. Do you think they microwaved him prior to putting him on the scale to get him down to 173? You're guessing at heights and weights. They don't guess. They measure and weigh.

There are always discrepancies in 40 times between events. But height and weight is super easy to measure with accuracy.

Exactly, this conspiracy crap is laughable

Some of you guys are taking Hall lying about his measurables personally

 

[Geo305]

Avantae testing numbers for his age and class are actually pretty good. Darrian Felix who posted crazy scores his senior year wasn't even that good at the same stage.

Some of these measurements can tend to be a little off too despite what some have said in here. The Opening in Miami last year needed adjustments after the head shots came in of the height and weigh ins from the event.

I had people who were there at the event. Mark Pope is barely taller than Gurvan and before he decided to scratch his numbers, his height and weigh in was 6'1" 175.

By all accounts. Warren Thompson and Brian Hightower were some of the really tall WRs and both came in about 2 inches shorter than expected.

5'10".5 compared to 6'1" is a bit of a drop off, talking about almost 3 inches. That's noticeable. I've met Gurvan and Amari in person. They are about the same height. At worst Gurvan is 5'11" no shoes or cleats on.

Regardless, none of that matters.

If you ever played football before you know the measurables always exaggerated. Taken with shoes or cleats on as well. Brandon Meriweather was listed 6'1" at Miami his whole career and showed up to the combine 5'11". Same for Sean Spence.

I will say 173 sounds a bit way too light for Gurvan physique if you have ever seen him. Everyone carries weight different though I guess.

Geo, they weighed Gurvan. Do you think they microwaved him prior to putting him on the scale to get him down to 173? You're guessing at heights and weights. They don't guess. They measure and weigh.

There are always discrepancies in 40 times between events. But height and weight is super easy to measure with accuracy.

Unless he carries 173 very well then it doesn't add up to me TBH. Only kid I saw like that at one of these camps was Daniel wright last year and he came in a buck 70 and looked way bigger than that and I was at the event. Those measurables listed for Gurvan are what Elijah Moore is and I've seen both in person, Gurvan is taller and bigger than Elijah.

As for the whole height. I kinda have to side with LCEL with this one. Trajan Bandy came in the opening finals 5'10". Gurvan is noticeably bigger than Trajan. Is what it is. I have seen some discrepancies at these events even for measurables at the NFTC and the Regionals in the state.

Most notably as you mentioned. The forty and shuttles. Bandy ran a 4.68 at a regional and ran a 4.51 at the finals.



Gilbert, Bandy, Hall and Amari at the bowl game.

I wouldn't say what Liberty City El was saying is exactly crazy. There's a possibility the wrong numbers were punched in on a profile (it has happened) same thing happened with steed last year and they corrected it when the head shots came out at the height and weigh ins when the event starts. That or Bandy is not 5'10" like the Nike officials said he is.

 

[Hurricane Warrior]

Avantae testing numbers for his age and class are actually pretty good. Darrian Felix who posted crazy scores his senior year wasn't even that good at the same stage.

Some of these measurements can tend to be a little off too despite what some have said in here. The Opening in Miami last year needed adjustments after the head shots came in of the height and weigh ins from the event.

I had people who were there at the event. Mark Pope is barely taller than Gurvan and before he decided to scratch his numbers, his height and weigh in was 6'1" 175.

By all accounts. Warren Thompson and Brian Hightower were some of the really tall WRs and both came in about 2 inches shorter than expected.

5'10".5 compared to 6'1" is a bit of a drop off, talking about almost 3 inches. That's noticeable. I've met Gurvan and Amari in person. They are about the same height. At worst Gurvan is 5'11" no shoes or cleats on.

Regardless, none of that matters.

If you ever played football before you know the measurables always exaggerated. Taken with shoes or cleats on as well. Brandon Meriweather was listed 6'1" at Miami his whole career and showed up to the combine 5'11". Same for Sean Spence.

I will say 173 sounds a bit way too light for Gurvan physique if you have ever seen him. Everyone carries weight different though I guess.

Geo, they weighed Gurvan. Do you think they microwaved him prior to putting him on the scale to get him down to 173? You're guessing at heights and weights. They don't guess. They measure and weigh.

There are always discrepancies in 40 times between events. But height and weight is super easy to measure with accuracy.

Unless he carries 173 very well then it doesn't add up to me TBH. Only kid I saw like that at one of these camps was Daniel wright last year and he came in a buck 70 and looked way bigger than that and I was at the event. Those measurables listed for Gurvan are what Elijah Moore is and I've seen both in person, Gurvan is taller and bigger than Elijah.

As for the whole height. I kinda have to side with LCEL with this one. Trajan Bandy came in the opening finals 5'10". Gurvan is noticeably bigger than Trajan. Is what it is. I have seen some discrepancies at these events even for measurables at the NFTC and the Regionals in the state.

Most notably as you mentioned. The forty and shuttles. Bandy ran a 4.68 at a regional and ran a 4.51 at the finals.

View attachment 43083

Gilbert, Bandy, Hall and Amari at the bowl game.

I wouldn't say what Liberty City El was saying is exactly crazy. There's a possibility the wrong numbers were punched in on a profile (it has happened) same thing happened with steed last year and they corrected it when the head shots came out at the height and weigh ins when the event starts. That or Bandy is not 5'10" like the Nike officials said he is.

The interesting thing about Steed is that he is now listed at 5'11" 203 on his UM profile which was surprising... My bet is Hall is 5'11. It makes sense he looks bigger than the 173 if he is shorter compared to Pope who is 6'1". I think 173 is good size for someone who is still a JR in HS. He should be 185 by the time he graduates. By the time he hits the field in college he should be a solid 190.

Measurables are great and they don't lie. However, if a kid can play, he can play. I don't think elite size and speed is as important in college as it is in the NFL. A lot of great college players aren't that tall, big or fast, they don't end up doing well on the next level but do just fine in college. As much as I love the NFL U tradition, I want to see our guys dominate while at the U.

 

[DerekDohrman]

The Commits
RB Lorenzo Lingard – Lingard measured 6-0, 190 pounds. He clocked a 4.63 in the 40-yard dash and ran a 4.34 in the pro-shuttle. His SPARQ Rating of 104.49 was fifth best amongst running backs at the camp.

WR Dee Wiggins – Numbers scratched.

LB Jesiah Pierre (2019) –Pierre stood tall at 6-2, 214. He ran a respectable 4.8 in the 40 and managed to jump 31.2 inches on the mat.

DB Diamantae Howard (2019) – Howard played linebacker this past season at Miami Southridge, but worked out with the safeties. He came in 6-2, 176 and ran a 4.96 in the 40.

DB Avantae Williams (2020) – Williams didn't have the best day testing. The rising sophomore ran a 4.72 and had 4.65 shuttle. Those numbers were good enough for a SPARQ Rating of 63.51. He was listed at 5-11, 168.

The Targets
QB Artur Sitkowski– The IMG Academy measured an impressive 6-5, 215. He had a SPARQ Rating of 76.73 after running a 4.97 and jumping 26.8 inches.

QB Joe Milton – Milton came in officially at 6-4.5, 222 pounds which is an inch and a half shorter than his listed height of 6-6. He ran a 4.8 in the 40 and had an explosive 32.2-inch vertical jump.

WR Joshua Moore – Moore checked in at 6-0.5, 156. He ran a 4.67 and had a vertical jump of 41.5 inches, which was the second best mark out of every athlete at the camp.

WR Mark Pope – Numbers scratched.

WR Brian Hightower – Numbers scratched.

WR Warren Thompson – Thompson jumped 35 inches, but elected to not have his 40 time posted.

OL William Barnes– Listed at 6-4, 312.

OL Ed Montilus – Listed at 6-2, 288 with a 6 flat in the 40.

OL Cleveland Reed – Listed at 6-3, 327.

OL Evan Neal (2019) – Listed at 6-7, 378.

DL Dennis Briggs – Briggs weighed in at 6-4, 252 and posted a 25.8-inch vertical jump to go along with a 5.18 40-yard dash.

DL Derick Hunter (2019) – Hunter clocked a 5.34 in the 40 after measuring in at 6-3.5, 245.

LB David Reese– Reese had some of the most impressive numbers of the day. He had a SPARQ Rating of 102.12 which was a product of a 4.69 in the 40-yard dash and a 4.21 shuttle. He was listed at 6.2-5, 213.

DB Gurvan Hall – Listed at 5-10.5, 173.

DB Jamien Sherwood – Numbers scratched.

https://www.theopening.com/2017-orlando-results

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