Offensive Line is a Weakness

[TheMatador]

I played quarterback for St Thomas back in the day. I did at one point coach high school football. I am not a qb "guru" People call me that. I NEVER have repeated those words out of my mouth once nor will I ever. I just love the game and consider myself an advanced student having picked up some things after around a decade watching film and studying all things quarterbacks. I learn something almost new about the game every week when I watch film. This game intrigues me.

I don't want to coach or have ANY desire in doing so right now. (other than coaching my son's baseball team which is much more important to me) I don't claim to know more than the coaches who get paid for a living. I just talk about the game bro. Nothing more, Nothing less.

But obviously there are many many posters here who DO know more than the coaches. Just ask them. (Ask the posters, I mean, not the coaches.)

 

[TheMatador]

The point is, it's a rare person that doesn't show in practice what you'll see in a game. If anything they'll tend to show out worse. That's where "Greentree all American" came from, isn't it?

It seems to me it's easier to make mistakes in a game....the crowd, pressure, etc. So much of it's mental.

 

[HamburgerSV]

You didn't answer my question.

I have zero inside knwokedge but Dude has played so poorly they have to take him out. That’s why I said probably

 

[TheMatador]

Check: Harris and Holsum both have 3 rings a piece but at different levels. Holsum is also a coach and linked in heavy with South Florida recruiting. I don’t agree with everything he says but he does a good job of breaking down the coaching aspects of the game for casual fans.This is one of his better vids, go to around 55 minutes in to hear his critique on the OL situation. It’s a good listen.


This is Kelvin Harris

The U Podcast: First Quarter Grades with The Athletic's Manny Navarro

Podcast Episode · Miami Huddlecast · 09/26/2019 · 1h 46m

podcasts.apple.com

So, Kelvin Harris is the only one to have three NC rings at Miami? He has them from '87-'89-'91?

 

[TheMatador]

That's not proof of anything. That's proof that they are willing to try something different, but if the end result is worse then, that does nothing for your argument.

Side note: Where are you seeing that they are probably going to take out Zion or move him to RT?

I don't see Zion as a RT, at least given my understanding of the position. He's longer, more like what I think you want at LT. Don't forget he had to put on a lot of weight quickly to get ready just to play LT at the college level...and he's still not ready under normal circumstances. And these are not normal circumstances.

I just think we ended up in a bad situation personnel-wise, with almost no reasonable talent above the freshman-sophomore level. Whatever the cause and no matter who's fault it is, we're just going to have to be patient and work our way through it. I think the current offensive coaches were dealt a very bad hand by the previous staff.

 

[NorthEastCane]

It seems to me it's easier to make mistakes in a game....the crowd, pressure, etc. So much of it's mental.

I think that's why they may show less in a game. I was referring to athletically. They're not going to be faster, stronger, or tougher than you've seen in practice.

 

[90scane]

Continue the miss parade as Cleveland Reed, who was once applauded by former head coach Mark Richt as a starter of the future, left the program. Currently my numbers show Miami with 74 scholarship players. 11 below the 85 scholarship mark. I have to ask though, are these sanctions self imposed? I just don't get it.

We can only sign 25 per year. If we can't retain 21.25 of the 25 for 4 years (average), we will be below 85. Sure we have some RS Seniors but lately we've had a good number of 4th and 5th year kids transfer or leave for the NFL. We've had a good number of medical retirements as well, sadly. This is compounded by the sanctions that were years ago but due to NCAA rules, it isn't easy to recover to 85 players post-sanctions.

We need to keep kids like Reed, Mahoney, Cager, Joe Jackson, Homer... We need to keep Donaldson, Dallas, Thomas,... next year. We should not take anymore 1 and done GTs. We have to hit closer to 1000 to make a 1-year kid worth it as they take a counter from a 3-4 year kid. Yes, it hurts us in the short term as we can't fill weaknesses but in the long-term, we have kids that are developed and stay for 3-5 years.

As for Reed, most new coaches see departures. It sucks that we are seeing them with low numbers to boot. If Manny can't keep these kids on-board, he will suffer the same fate as the prior coaches. You can't win big with 70-75 real shipped players.

 

[PittsburghCane]

Searels is a big cog in this too. Currently his UNC offensive line has given up 19 sacks to Miami's 18 (one more game) That guy recruited more guards than the Miami Heat. A big reason the roster management is a mess there.

Goes to show that players that left early or transferred aren't doing much. Nobody wants our OL players.

 

[grover]

If the Oline was at least at last year's level, I suspect we are looking at 4-0 rather than 2-2. This is the single biggest issue on the team, point blank.

The irritating thing is we have had 2 players leave this year from this Oline group, and I am not sure why. We need to learn a bit more about this. George and Cleveland would both be useful now...

You forgot Mahoney.

Mahoney is now a backup for a BC team that isn’t that great. But I believe he’s still be better than Clark right now. And that would have allowed Scaife to be bumped out much sooner. His presence may have been enough to push Donaldson to follow his diet more, too. We desperately need more competition.

 

[Roman Marciante]

We can only sign 25 per year. If we can't retain 21.25 of the 25 for 4 years (average), we will be below 85. Sure we have some RS Seniors but lately we've had a good number of 4th and 5th year kids transfer or leave for the NFL. We've had a good number of medical retirements as well, sadly. This is compounded by the sanctions that were years ago but due to NCAA rules, it isn't easy to recover to 85 players post-sanctions.

We need to keep kids like Reed, Mahoney, Cager, Joe Jackson, Homer... We need to keep Donaldson, Dallas, Thomas,... next year. We should not take anymore 1 and done GTs. We have to hit closer to 1000 to make a 1-year kid worth it as they take a counter from a 3-4 year kid. Yes, it hurts us in the short term as we can't fill weaknesses but in the long-term, we have kids that are developed and stay for 3-5 years.

As for Reed, most new coaches see departures. It sucks that we are seeing them with low numbers to boot. If Manny can't keep these kids on-board, he will suffer the same fate as the prior coaches. You can't win big with 70-75 real shipped players.

Kudos and well done

 

[Roman Marciante]

I mostly agree with you Roman except that I still believe a spread system would do a better job of masking the deficiency as opposed to trying to run power I and play action. To your point, we would still have issues but I think the issues would be more manageable than when we ask Jarren to turn his back to the D or ask Dallas to make something out of nothing.

I am a spread guy. Have been. I try not to let it affect my judgement in breakdowns. Because every offense needs a body of work and to stand on its own two feet first before snap judgements.

It took me 2 years with richt before I was like enough. This is too simplistic to work.

But my personal gut feeling says a pro spread/ Baylor spread would do wonders here. When teams like Ohio state, Clemson, Oklahoma use their offenses with great efficacy... for the life of me I can't understand why a school in geographic Miami, where everyone comes to grab speed... runs a pro offense.

Especially, when you need a really good offensive line to run the pro effectively (Repeat to step one of this thread)

 

[90scane]

Kudos and well done

The point is that we can't blame Manny/Baker for this mess. Every coach has recruiting misses, Nelson and Clarke appear to be playing well above their "rankings." We will see ElGammal. Kennedy is a bust. The bigger concern is 2020 with only 3 kids verballed and big holes seen. This is not going to be an overnight fix on the OL. We need to sign 6-7 OL and hope they develop along with the 3 kids from '19.

 

[TexasCane90]

And in other news water is wet

No offense to OP but this is 80% of the reason both years that our offense has absolutely been in the dumps... the oline play has been pitiful and shows that we absolutely had TERRIBLE misses in our Evals leading to this from searles mess

 

[305to954]

This is now the official OL play list thread

******* THANK YOU’!! BEEN PREACHING THIS FOR THE FIRST FOUR WEEKS..YOU HIT EVERYTHING ON THE HEAD

 

[caneaddict]

Scaife - Donaldson - Gaynor - Hillery/Clark - Nelson

 

[FrancisSawyer]

Shouldn't have given Enos carte blanche in hiring the offensive staff.

This ×1000

That was one of two monumental errors in judgement that may end up costing Diaz his job. The other error was not cleaning house on the defensive side. His top priority should have been to bring in the best staff possible on both sides of the ball.

 

[Captain Uberpants]

Solution to our OL problems:

2019- stick with your starting 5 and let them grow this year. There’s no other solution. Recruiting wise, bring in 4-5 bodies.

2020- all 5 starters come back. Unit goes from crap to average or even above average. Recruiting wise, bring in 4-5 bodies.

2021- 4/5 starters come back. Unit is now an experienced force. Recruiting wise, bring in 4-5 bodies.

 

[Patreek]

Solution to our OL problems:

2019- stick with your starting 5 and let them grow this year. There’s no other solution. Recruiting wise, bring in 4-5 bodies.

2020- all 5 starters come back. Unit goes from crap to average or even above average. Recruiting wise, bring in 4-5 bodies.

2021- 4/5 starters come back. Unit is now an experienced force. Recruiting wise, bring in 4-5 bodies.

Agreed. This team needs to stack the 2 deep and it has to start at some point. Every incoming offensive lineman the next 2 seasons should expect to redshirt. At that point the team is finally starting juniors and seniors backed up by redshirt sophomores.

Missing on Kennedy and the Georgia Tech guard really set the offensive line back this season and next season.

 

[CanesWooshWoosh]

Who’s fault is it that they’re all skinny-fat?

 

[Roman Marciante]

A lot of reflection for me on the bye week. My inescapable haunting trigger are the two consecutive plays late in the first half vs Central Michigan where Zion Nelson got beat clean twice in a row. Then you add the first game vs. Florida where he is inexplicably stuck in his stance while the pass rush casually passes him bye like a statue.



Then there was John Campbell. His spacial awareness and feel for the position was so critically not in tune that he stuck out on film like a sore thumb. He thus graded out lower then any other Miami offensive lineman on Pro Football Focus vs UF and was replaced the following game. Two Freshmen. I get it.

A deep dive will show Miami ranks tied for 125th in the nation in sacks allowed (with only four games played) There are only five teams in the country who average over four sacks given up per contest:

• Old Dominion 4.0
• Tulsa 4.0
• Miami 4.5
• Akron 4.6
• USF 5.0

Not necessarily the who's who in college football and Miami is the ONLY P5 team on the list. Conversely for reference I listed the top 3 ACC schools in protecting the quarterback and it may be a surprise for some. You would figure the defending national champ would be on the list (they are) but two teams you are killing in recruiting are doing a fine job keeping their QB upright. (Duke by the way started off the year facing Alabama)

• Duke .25
• Boston College .6
• Clemson .8

Sacks allowed isn't the only metric that defines offensive line greatness but when you consider Miami is 82nd in the country in yards per rush, the offensive line is not the strength of this team. Not even close. It is not even average. But why?

So many aspects that are hard to digest but ultimately the coaching staff needs to take a little heat here for their decisions along the line thus far. Say what you will, but announcing Campbell would remain a starter after a porous week zero and wrapping it up in a bravado cape of "We are building a monster" was inexplicably tone deaf. You supplanted him the very next week and the only thing that was monstrous was the claim.

You sold the collective fan base on this year's starting left tackle being a Butler transfer that the Oklahoma Sooners wanted in Tommy Kennedy. I honestly don't think I have even seen an episode of MTV's Catfish that was this outlandish because Kennedy can't even crack the three deep at center.

Continue the miss parade as Cleveland Reed, who was once applauded by former head coach Mark Richt as a starter of the future, left the program. Currently my numbers show Miami with 74 scholarship players. 11 below the 85 scholarship mark. I have to ask though, are these sanctions self imposed? I just don't get it.

This program needs to get a sense of itself because the statement "Zion is the best we have out there" should not be true. Four games in he is playing like a true freshman who needs a couple more years in this system before he makes any kind of steadfast impact. Which is fine because I believe in his ability long term. But after last week I don't see how this staff continues to march him out there. They shouldn't be in the position that they needed him to be.

That is the reality this current coaching staff faces. You knew what you had on the roster. You tried to fix it in the transfer market and you got catfished. You let some young develop-able talent walk off under the often default guise of "We only want guys who want to be Hurricanes." This mind you is after the countless sales jobs you employ in promising kids a chance at early playing time. You are 11 under the scholarship cap and lastly, you continue to march those kids out there.

This doesn't matter what offensive system you run this time. We cannot just chip and block with tight ends or spread them out of this mess. Eventually you need to put offensive linemen on an island and expect them to do their job. An offensive system change is just masking the more systemic issue that is deep rooted in the program less visible.

This offensive line is playing like a program who is dependent on freshman. And they have proven with 33% of the season now behind us, that is exactly what they are. Manny Diaz, I am not impressed. Butch Barry, I am not impressed. Yeah as a fan I expect better roster management and a team over a 50% blue chip ratio to be much more competitive. Especially along the offensive line.

So reading this back...... for those upset at this post because it wasn't fair to Manny? Was another 7 sack day and the fact this offensive line is the worst in the country after 5 weeks protecting the qb charge your mind?

I just don't understand with the talent and out recruiting the coastal, EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR, How these coaches don't deserve some heat for the decisions along the line thus far.