My snowflake thread on the DEFENSE

[Pecos The Diver]

And I'm sure no one expected the kind of 3rd down numbers fsu put up on us last night. No excuse for that...

This is the problem with our fan base right now. They are so uninformed. FSU has the highest 3rd down conversion rate in the country. They were right on their average. We know that there are serious personnel liabilities on our defense. We were never going to dominate the game and shut them out.

You want to be mad at the 3rd % from Wake fine. But to say "no one expected that". We were a 21 point dog. EVERYONE EXPECTED THAT.

Youre retarded. Yeah, those were FSUs third down numbers. Against Pitt, Nevada, Bethune Cookman, BC, Maryland. So youre saying our defense isnt better than any of those teams? No excuse for the 3rd down numbers they put up on us, no matter what their average is. Who said wed dominate and shut them out? Pretty sure no one on this board even thought that..

 

[FullyERicht]

I would just love to know what the end game on defense is. If its 3-4 2gap, then our best pass rushers should be playing OLB. The lineup would be:

Pierre/Luther. Renfrow/Porter. Chick/Green

McCord Gaines. Perryman. AQM

That should be the BASE DEFENSE. This way you have your interior run blocking PLUS pass rush on every down. Then on third down you shift Chick and Luther inside with the two OLBs moved to the line, or any combo you wish based on distance.

If they want to play 4-3, they need to have at least one passrushing DE at all times, and stop wasting time asking kids to gain size that only slows their athleticism.

 

[sebastian91]

You guys patting each other on the back....be like FSU is just better man, soon we'll be ok. Pssht....yeah they are better. But don't act like we don't get tore up by mediocre teams as well. Thats why we were 21 points underdogs. Our defense did nothing except get two picks. FSU marched up and down the field. No matter how goodthey are thats amazing. But hey keep telling yourself there was nothing we could do. With mindset on this board we were defeated before the game started.

Ever consider that, based on the current roster, we are also a mediocre team???

Absolutely not. Not as good as FSU but we are better than how we played against them the first half suggest that, and better than every team on our schedule other than them. You can be the nail or the hammer. We chose to be the nail. Why play the game if we are gonna say its ok to lose because they are better than us? Execution beats talent sometimes. And we are not that bare of talent where we couldn't make it a decent game by executing a decent game plan. I know the concept is hard to grasp because only the team with the best players win all the time apparently.

The game I saw included opportunities missed because the game plan was being executed by inferior athletes, both physically (our defense) and mentally (Coley and Morris). If we executed the game plan perfectly, sure, we had a shot. Morris underthrows Coley on a sure TD, Coley short arms another sure TD, Goudis misses another FG, AQM rushes Winston with no control...the plays were there to be made. Our talent is mentally and physically mediocre, and we cannot talent ourselves out of mistakes against a team that can. We might get away with it against UNC and Wake, but not F$U, and probably not against VT. We aren't good or deep enough to make mistakes against any ACC team and expect to win.

 

[CanesAreAble]

The jump from 116 to 40-50 or so (where I think we'll end up) was expected by a decent group here. We talked about it offline quite a bit. The big thing will be the jump from our current range to a top 10 defense. That means opposing offenses adjust to us. What will it take for that to happen?

IMO, it will need:

Someone like Chickillo who can hold the edge, but also rush the passer.
Same for Shayon Green.
Someone like Renfro or Porter who can play NT, but absolutely demand a double team that he actually stalemates. I watched Renfro lose some 1 on 1 battles on Saturday.
Someone like Mccord/AQM, but with the ability to play multiple downs.
Someone at Safety who can make the play Highsmith missed against Benjamin. Which means a natural Safety who understands an angle and cuts that ball off, since it was filtered to that Safety zone anyway.

Looking at our roster, next year might be too soon.

Chad Thomas is that guy we're hoping is the more dynamic version of Chickillo. But, can Chickillo give us something closer in his senior year?
Mccord or AQM absolutely have to grow into guys who can set the edge + make plays.
Demetrius Jackson, Mike Smith and one of the other incoming Frosh have to grow into specialists QUICKLY.
Deon Bush and Jamal Carter have to develop immediately. We also need to recruit a true Safety or someone who can be molded into one. It's South Florida. IMO, I think you can grab any of 12 athletes down here and lock them into a film room to teach them what they need to do in our coverages.

Sure, depth is going to help. What we really need are more dynamic starters, though.

Agree with all of this.

Guys like Chad Thomas and Travonte Valentine are more explosive versions of Chick and Luther. AQM is a more explosive version of Green. Kirby is a more explosive version of Gaines. Grace is a savvier version of Corny. A healthy Bush is an all-around better version of Highsmith.

And then you have to depth to bring in guys with no colossal drop-off.

 

[stat1124]

We will be in a world of hurt if DP bounces at the end of this year which I think is very likely!

 

[CanesAreAble]

We will be in a world of hurt if DP bounces at the end of this year which I think is very likely!

It looks like Armbrister is working on the weakside behind DP now, so at least we'll have experience there.

Armbrister looked better earlier in the year. He could have a productive Senior year.

Jermaine Grace might also battle for playing time.

 

[supacane]

You guys patting each other on the back....be like FSU is just better man, soon we'll be ok. Pssht....yeah they are better. But don't act like we don't get tore up by mediocre teams as well. Thats why we were 21 points underdogs. Our defense did nothing except get two picks. FSU marched up and down the field. No matter how goodthey are thats amazing. But hey keep telling yourself there was nothing we could do. With mindset on this board we were defeated before the game started.

Ever consider that, based on the current roster, we are also a mediocre team???

Absolutely not. Not as good as FSU but we are better than how we played against them the first half suggest that, and better than every team on our schedule other than them. You can be the nail or the hammer. We chose to be the nail. Why play the game if we are gonna say its ok to lose because they are better than us? Execution beats talent sometimes. And we are not that bare of talent where we couldn't make it a decent game by executing a decent game plan. I know the concept is hard to grasp because only the team with the best players win all the time apparently.

The game I saw included opportunities missed because the game plan was being executed by inferior athletes, both physically (our defense) and mentally (Coley and Morris). If we executed the game plan perfectly, sure, we had a shot. Morris underthrows Coley on a sure TD, Coley short arms another sure TD, Goudis misses another FG, AQM rushes Winston with no control...the plays were there to be made. Our talent is mentally and physically mediocre, and we cannot talent ourselves out of mistakes against a team that can. We might get away with it against UNC and Wake, but not F$U, and probably not against VT. We aren't good or deep enough to make mistakes against any ACC team and expect to win.

VT? If we can't beat VT at home we are more than 2 recruiting classes from not getting blown out by FSU. Everyone is blaming Morris but in reality, he threw two INTs, same as Winston, he threw 2 TDs, one more than Winston. We have no defense, we have no ability to figure what a team does best and take it away. Not only can't we do that, we do not try. Now AQM miss sacks whatever....Winston is not a tackle dummy. We chose to loop our fast DEs inside, therefore allowing Winston the ability to break outside and to be chased by Chikillo etc. Thats not talent, we chose to loop them INSIDE.

 

[sebastian91]

You guys patting each other on the back....be like FSU is just better man, soon we'll be ok. Pssht....yeah they are better. But don't act like we don't get tore up by mediocre teams as well. Thats why we were 21 points underdogs. Our defense did nothing except get two picks. FSU marched up and down the field. No matter how goodthey are thats amazing. But hey keep telling yourself there was nothing we could do. With mindset on this board we were defeated before the game started.

Ever consider that, based on the current roster, we are also a mediocre team???

Absolutely not. Not as good as FSU but we are better than how we played against them the first half suggest that, and better than every team on our schedule other than them. You can be the nail or the hammer. We chose to be the nail. Why play the game if we are gonna say its ok to lose because they are better than us? Execution beats talent sometimes. And we are not that bare of talent where we couldn't make it a decent game by executing a decent game plan. I know the concept is hard to grasp because only the team with the best players win all the time apparently.

The game I saw included opportunities missed because the game plan was being executed by inferior athletes, both physically (our defense) and mentally (Coley and Morris). If we executed the game plan perfectly, sure, we had a shot. Morris underthrows Coley on a sure TD, Coley short arms another sure TD, Goudis misses another FG, AQM rushes Winston with no control...the plays were there to be made. Our talent is mentally and physically mediocre, and we cannot talent ourselves out of mistakes against a team that can. We might get away with it against UNC and Wake, but not F$U, and probably not against VT. We aren't good or deep enough to make mistakes against any ACC team and expect to win.

VT? If we can't beat VT at home we are more than 2 recruiting classes from not getting blown out by FSU. Everyone is blaming Morris but in reality, he threw two INTs, same as Winston, he threw 2 TDs, one more than Winston. We have no defense, we have no ability to figure what a team does best and take it away. Not only can't we do that, we do not try. Now AQM miss sacks whatever....Winston is not a tackle dummy. We chose to loop our fast DEs inside, therefore allowing Winston the ability to break outside and to be chased by Chikillo etc. Thats not talent, we chose to loop them INSIDE.

What happened to breaking down on a tackle instead of running full speed right past him? No, Winston isn't a tackle dummy, but he isn't Michael Vick either. Those inside loops got our best pass rusher to the QB, and that pass rusher was out of control and didn't make a play. I'm not blaming Morris any more than I'm blaming anyone else. The facts are that we don't have enough talent to overcome mistakes, regardless who it is making them, or who we make them against. We don't have enough quality depth to overcome injuries, regardless who gets injured, or who they get injured against.

 

[AUcane]

We will be in a world of hurt if DP bounces at the end of this year which I think is very likely!

It looks like Armbrister is working on the weakside behind DP now, so at least we'll have experience there.

Armbrister looked better earlier in the year. He could have a productive Senior year.

Jermaine Grace might also battle for playing time.

Yep. I actually like the trio of Thurston, Figs and Kirby.

The backups are the big question mark.

 

[Canesfan1899]

We will be in a world of hurt if DP bounces at the end of this year which I think is very likely!

It looks like Armbrister is working on the weakside behind DP now, so at least we'll have experience there.

Armbrister looked better earlier in the year. He could have a productive Senior year.

Jermaine Grace might also battle for playing time.

Grace seems to be getting lost in the conversation, he's a true freshman that's too small to make a huge impact right now, with a year in Utough and another 15 pounds he should be ready to contribute.