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Manny at the UA camp

305to954 said:
Lol you think tac is “slow” for the LB position..ok. I’m forgetting this the same fanbase that thought Spence, Perryman and Beason were faster then shaq..even tho empirical evidence says otherwise
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Straight line and change of direction are two different things. Philip Dorsett is faster then Odell. Odell hits top speed in one step and he's more explosive.
 
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305to954 said:
Big dawg it has everything to do with your statement..you just grouped manny with randy, and Coker..trying to use the benefit of Hindsight to prove why you think manny is a “corch”..when in fact nothing about those to correlate with manny’s first 2 years..Coker took over a machine and crashed and burned..Randy took over a program 5 years removed from a natty and made it worse
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Sorry, you’re totally wrong and prolly just too lazy to read the exchange you took a hot take to. To help clarify, I’ve pasted it below.
AtlAtty said:
Anyone who argues on a recruiting thread that Manny is not good at recruiting is borderline brain dead. Borderline as in you may have some recognition of your surroundings but your communication skills are limited to blinks.
‘you can argue all you want about Manny the DC or coach, but his recruiting as a head coach has been excellent over the past 2 classes. Those are just facts.
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Brains dead slurper delusionalist fans wrote the exact same garbage about Coker and Shannon after ‘04 and ‘08. You’d think Miami fans who aren’t teenagers would know better than to crown a corch for a single recruiting class before the kids even suit up.
It’s obvious and clear that I responded to a porster who was crowning Manny as a recruiter off a class that hasn’t played a down yet, to the point where he said no one could disagree with manny’s greatness as a recruiter. I pointed out that the same idiocy was said about both Coker and Shannon after their highly rated classes. That’s a fact.

So it’s obvious that my comment was recruiting focused and addressed people making overreaching proclamations before anything has been proven - you’d think around this program we’d all have learned that lesson already but apparently not.

All that said you’re crazy if you think manny has proven more in 2 years than Coker did. I mean, you may be deranged if you believe that. Coker was undefeated in his first two regular seasons, won one title and almost won a second. Manny lost to FIU, La Tech and got gang raped by UNC.

Be as optimistic as you want but don’t be delusional.
 
Dwinstitles said:
Straight line and change of direction are two different things. Philip Dorsett is faster then Odell. Odell hits top speed in one step and he's more explosive.
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lmao So DP, Sean, and beason have better change of direction..that’s what the argument is shifted too..based on what exactly?
 
hoops156 said:
if youre killing two recruiting classes bc they haven't played yet or gotten the requisite amount of time to fairly judge them, then just dont follow recruiting. recruiting is essentially a hope lottery as is the NFL draft. you wont know if that player will bust or boom until years later. you can kill manny for losing to UNC and OK State. You cant kill manny for signing two good classes (one of them being great w 2 five stars). his recruiting results have been great. his coaching results (his staff failures fall on him) have been up and down. his best HC quality so far is recognizing what he needs to fix from a coaching aspect and making those changes. he isnt stubborn which is what the last two dudes were prior to him. hopefully, the staff changes including upgrades at secondary coach and DL coach make a diff. ill never understand the posters that just hate him like he raw dogged their girlfriends. you should hope the dude figures it out on the field bc another coaching change will lead to more instability and lackluster results till that guy gets it going (newsflash: we aren't getting a saban/urban here that can complete a 180 turnaround immediately). it takes time for any coach (ryan day took over an elite Urban OSU program, Riley took over a top tier OU team playing in the playoffs, it took Dabo times and years to get it right, LSU was good to elite prior to coach O (and im mehhhhhhhhh on him and think **** get axed soon enough). were coming off years of nothing and another coach will have to turn more nothing around. hopefully this dude figures it out bc im sick of going through the coaching cycles every 4-5 years.
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I agree. As of rn jury is still out on Diaz
but there’s a portion of the base that will never get over 19..that spills over into 20. With All the bs everyone had to deal with Miami handled itself among the best in the nation. A 2 win improvement on a szn that was cut short by 2 games..along with the recruiting class of 19 and 20
 
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hoops156 said:
if youre killing two recruiting classes bc they haven't played yet or gotten the requisite amount of time to fairly judge them, then just dont follow recruiting. recruiting is essentially a hope lottery as is the NFL draft. you wont know if that player will bust or boom until years later. you can kill manny for losing to UNC and OK State. You cant kill manny for signing two good classes (one of them being great w 2 five stars). his recruiting results have been great. his coaching results (his staff failures fall on him) have been up and down. his best HC quality so far is recognizing what he needs to fix from a coaching aspect and making those changes. he isnt stubborn which is what the last two dudes were prior to him. hopefully, the staff changes including upgrades at secondary coach and DL coach make a diff. ill never understand the posters that just hate him like he raw dogged their girlfriends. you should hope the dude figures it out on the field bc another coaching change will lead to more instability and lackluster results till that guy gets it going (newsflash: we aren't getting a saban/urban here that can complete a 180 turnaround immediately). it takes time for any coach (ryan day took over an elite Urban OSU program, Riley took over a top tier OU team playing in the playoffs, it took Dabo times and years to get it right, LSU was good to elite prior to coach O (and im mehhhhhhhhh on him and think **** get axed soon enough). were coming off years of nothing and another coach will have to turn more nothing around. hopefully this dude figures it out bc im sick of going through the coaching cycles every 4-5 years.
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Learn to read. I didn’t ‘kill’ anything. To the contrary, I simply pointed out that folks who are crowning manny for his recruiting are the ones without logic yet. You would have to agree given what you wrote. Some of you slurpers have gotten to the point where someone is a ‘hater’ simply for not sucking him off as hard or fast as you’d like.

I also disagree with you on your theory
of recruiting. It’s not a lottery. Our past two decades of bad evals proves this. Just like Butch’s eye for talent did. Recruiting is about evaluations and closing. It’s uncertain, but that doesn’t make it a lottery. The odds matter a lot and the odds are what you enhance by evaluating and recruiting well.
 
305to954 said:
Lol you think tac is “slow” for the LB position..ok. I’m forgetting this the same fanbase that thought Spence, Perryman and Beason were faster then shaq..even tho empirical evidence says otherwise
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I don’t know their reported times. I do think those guys had faster reaction times than Shaq.
 
305to954 said:
All reports have been he was very involved with James William, Taylor and Garcia recruitment..so yeah
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he was def involved with garcia. remember part of what drew Garcia to arky was his relationship with jesse stone who he knew from UM while enos was recruiting him
 
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Ethnicsands said:
Learn to read. I didn’t ‘kill’ anything. To the contrary, I simply pointed out that folks who are crowning manny for his recruiting are the ones without logic yet. You would have to agree given what you wrote. Some of you slurpers have gotten to the point where someone is a ‘hater’ simply for not sucking him off as hard or fast as you’d like.

I also disagree with you on your theory
of recruiting. It’s not a lottery. Our past two decades of bad evals proves this. Just like Butch’s eye for talent did. Recruiting is about evaluations and closing. It’s uncertain, but that doesn’t make it a lottery. The odds matter a lot and the odds are what you enhance by evaluating and recruiting well.
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a. i dont give a **** who coaches as long as they win. if manny is the guy, were better off bc we dont have endure another coaching search and down initial years. hes got another year to take another step or **** be gone. so far his staff changes have worked and hes upgraded his D staff w t rob and simpson. the recruiting also got better w DVD on field and Aristide. now time to improve on the field and build on last year which neither of our past three coaches could do.

b. we have largely closed on top tier kids under this current staff. we failed at CB and brought in one of the best DB coaches in the country and a stud recruiter to assist w that. we failed at LB recruiting (which absolutely falls on manny) and we brought in t-will then aristide (who aTm fans loved and wanted on field bc of losing him -- to make it worse for them, they lost a signee allegedly due to Aristide leaving).

c. regarding recruiting, its a hope lottery in that youre judging it based on a ranking that someone else says is a five star, four, 3, 2, etc. most never watch HS film or even attend HS games to know a ton about a kid (a 2 min huddle highlight is bs). you cant hate on a dude who brought in two good and great classes (good first class, great second class) bc they haven't fully played. no one is crowning manny. everyone but you will acknowledge what he does well and what he doesnt. you can say hes done well recruiting here than the past guys but still has a ways to go on the field as an HC. both things are true.

at the end, its about development imo mostly. we haven't developed kids in the last two decades (regardless of stars). it helps when you have a ton of five stars bc those kids have higher talent ceilings, but we didnt do a good job developing a 2 star to a 5 star overall. that has to change. bringing in classes like we did w the last two will help us compete with the elite teams and close the talent gap IF we can develop them. simpson will do that job. we know t rob will at DBs. striker play has been good here. LBs have to improve in a big way esp going forward.
 
Ethnicsands said:
I don’t know their reported times. I do think those guys had faster reaction times than Shaq.
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I think all hose guys had games that they disappearEd in while here tho. every last one. I think Shaqs instincts were just as good. Only one who was a tic fast was spence but he had some problems in the box as well compared to the other 3
 
Man we don't agree on almost anything.

hoops156 said:
a. i dont give a **** who coaches as long as they win. if manny is the guy, were better off bc we dont have endure another coaching search and down initial years. hes got another year to take another step or **** be gone. so far his staff changes have worked and hes upgraded his D staff w t rob and simpson. the recruiting also got better w DVD on field and Aristide. now time to improve on the field and build on last year which neither of our past three coaches could do.
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I agree - don't care who's coach and hope it turns faster than slower. Won't lie about what I see or delude myself, either. But hope, sure.

However, you say recruiting got better with DVD / Aristide. To me, that's a 'hope.' Maybe. Prolly. But I don't crown things that haven't transpired yet. We've had way too many 'this time will be different' situations the past two decades.

hoops156 said:
b. we have largely closed on top tier kids under this current staff. we failed at CB and brought in one of the best DB coaches in the country and a stud recruiter to assist w that. we failed at LB recruiting (which absolutely falls on manny) and we brought in t-will then aristide (who aTm fans loved and wanted on field bc of losing him -- to make it worse for them, they lost a signee allegedly due to Aristide leaving).
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You're far overstating recruiting under this staff, though maybe you're just defining staff differently. Manny's been here for 6 classes now as DC/HC. I think he's done meh other than the most recent class, which we haven't seen on the field. The offensive staff is relatively new, but we have giant needs at OL and WR. Hopefully we can get better at recruiting those spots as we have not been good enough at them yet.

hoops156 said:
c. regarding recruiting, its a hope lottery in that youre judging it based on a ranking that someone else says is a five star, four, 3, 2, etc. most never watch HS film or even attend HS games to know a ton about a kid (a 2 min huddle highlight is bs). you cant hate on a dude who brought in two good and great classes (good first class, great second class) bc they haven't fully played. no one is crowning manny. everyone but you will acknowledge what he does well and what he doesnt. you can say hes done well recruiting here than the past guys but still has a ways to go on the field as an HC. both things are true.
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Recruiting is not a lottery. I don't know how people still say stuff like this. If it was a lottery, no one would use 'bags.' You use bags because you think you know who is better. I am definitely not going by the star ratings myself. You can do what you want I guess.

Secondly, you think the star system is the guide. Thought we'd moved past that idea on this site. It doesn't matter how someone is rated by other people (let alone fan sites). What matters is that our staff can evaluate, prioritize and close.

Third, I haven't 'hated' on Manny at all here. You aren't bothering to read anythign and going on what other porsters seem to think. Just because I don't want to give him a rim job doesn't mean I hate him.

hoops156 said:
at the end, its about development imo mostly. we haven't developed kids in the last two decades (regardless of stars). it helps when you have a ton of five stars bc those kids have higher talent ceilings, but we didnt do a good job developing a 2 star to a 5 star overall. that has to change. bringing in classes like we did w the last two will help us compete with the elite teams and close the talent gap IF we can develop them. simpson will do that job. we know t rob will at DBs. striker play has been good here. LBs have to improve in a big way esp going forward.
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Here we disagree. It's about a lot of things, but it starts with evaluations. Folks talk about 'development' but they rarely can explain what that is. We've sent guys to the NFL all these years. We've had top kids who didn't pan out but lower rated kids who hit or exceeded expectations. If we could develop one kid, why not another? Give me culture, evaluations, leadership, a decent scheme and S&C program, and you'll see what you believe to be 'development' sprout up eerywhere.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
Man we don't agree on almost anything.


I agree - don't care who's coach and hope it turns faster than slower. Won't lie about what I see or delude myself, either. But hope, sure.

However, you say recruiting got better with DVD / Aristide. To me, that's a 'hope.' Maybe. Prolly. But I don't crown things that haven't transpired yet. We've had way too many 'this time will be different' situations the past two decades.


You're far overstating recruiting under this staff, though maybe you're just defining staff differently. Manny's been here for 6 classes now as DC/HC. I think he's done meh other than the most recent class, which we haven't seen on the field. The offensive staff is relatively new, but we have giant needs at OL and WR. Hopefully we can get better at recruiting those spots as we have not been good enough at them yet.



Recruiting is not a lottery. I don't know how people still say stuff like this. If it was a lottery, no one would use 'bags.' You use bags because you think you know who is better. I am definitely not going by the star ratings myself. You can do what you want I guess.

Secondly, you think the star system is the guide. Thought we'd moved past that idea on this site. It doesn't matter how someone is rated by other people (let alone fan sites). What matters is that our staff can evaluate, prioritize and close.

Third, I haven't 'hated' on Manny at all here. You aren't bothering to read anythign and going on what other porsters seem to think. Just because I don't want to give him a rim job doesn't mean I hate him.



Here we disagree. It's about a lot of things, but it starts with evaluations. Folks talk about 'development' but they rarely can explain what that is. We've sent guys to the NFL all these years. We've had top kids who didn't pan out but lower rated kids who hit or exceeded expectations. If we could develop one kid, why not another? Give me culture, evaluations, leadership, a decent scheme and S&C program, and you'll see what you believe to be 'development' sprout up eerywhere.
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we dont need to agree.

However, you say recruiting got better with DVD / Aristide. To me, that's a 'hope.' Maybe. Prolly. But I don't crown things that haven't transpired yet. We've had way too many 'this time will be different' situations the past two decades. -- DVD has been doing it behind the scenes w the current roster and the new signees. him going on field was huge. aristide was a stud at ATM. both are question marks as coaches bc we haven't seen it yet but as recruiters, both are highly regarded in the recruiting world (esp aristide).


You're far overstating recruiting under this staff, though maybe you're just defining staff differently. Manny's been here for 6 classes now as DC/HC. I think he's done meh other than the most recent class, which we haven't seen on the field. The offensive staff is relatively new, but we have giant needs at OL and WR. Hopefully we can get better at recruiting those spots as we have not been good enough at them yet. -- he didnt pick his recruiting staff as DC, he didnt pick his analysts, he didnt pick his recruiting strategy. one of the first things he did was fire the recruiting coordinator doherty who richt hired. this staff has recruited better w manny as HC and hes def made it a priority w the way hes hired guys -- aristide, t will, t rob, dvd promotion, lockette, etc. guys who have ties and/or known as recruiting studs. on field success will help us take the next step in landing more and more elite kids on a yearly basis. his first class as HC (first full one) was pretty good esp coming off 6-7 (his own doing). just sucks covid basically snatched away a ton of the freshmen (remember the ones that got hit the most were the frosh class in season and no spring/summer essentially). next year is a big year for those kids.

Secondly, you think the star system is the guide. Thought we'd moved past that idea on this site. It doesn't matter how someone is rated by other people (let alone fan sites). What matters is that our staff can evaluate, prioritize and close. -- were getting better at closing based on how we trended the last two classes. i think our current staff will help us get better at it esp at CB. i do agree evals are important and are key. no disagreement really there.
 
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hoops156 said:
we dont need to agree.

However, you say recruiting got better with DVD / Aristide. To me, that's a 'hope.' Maybe. Prolly. But I don't crown things that haven't transpired yet. We've had way too many 'this time will be different' situations the past two decades. -- DVD has been doing it behind the scenes w the current roster and the new signees. him going on field was huge. aristide was a stud at ATM. both are question marks as coaches bc we haven't seen it yet but as recruiters, both are highly regarded in the recruiting world (esp aristide).


You're far overstating recruiting under this staff, though maybe you're just defining staff differently. Manny's been here for 6 classes now as DC/HC. I think he's done meh other than the most recent class, which we haven't seen on the field. The offensive staff is relatively new, but we have giant needs at OL and WR. Hopefully we can get better at recruiting those spots as we have not been good enough at them yet. -- he didnt pick his recruiting staff as DC, he didnt pick his analysts, he didnt pick his recruiting strategy. one of the first things he did was fire the recruiting coordinator doherty who richt hired. this staff has recruited better w manny as HC and hes def made it a priority w the way hes hired guys -- aristide, t will, t rob, dvd promotion, lockette, etc. guys who have ties and/or known as recruiting studs. on field success will help us take the next step in landing more and more elite kids on a yearly basis. his first class as HC (first full one) was pretty good esp coming off 6-7 (his own doing). just sucks covid basically snatched away a ton of the freshmen (remember the ones that got hit the most were the frosh class in season and no spring/summer essentially). next year is a big year for those kids.

Secondly, you think the star system is the guide. Thought we'd moved past that idea on this site. It doesn't matter how someone is rated by other people (let alone fan sites). What matters is that our staff can evaluate, prioritize and close. -- were getting better at closing based on how we trended the last two classes. i think our current staff will help us get better at it esp at CB. i do agree evals are important and are key. no disagreement really there.
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The logic around here is weak.

Richt had 3 classes: they ranked on 247 as follows:

’16: 22
’17: 12
’18: 8

Manny has had 3 classes: they ranked on 247 as follows:

’19: 27
‘20: 16
‘21: 12

If Manny is the recruiting legend people claim, it’ll have to be because he’s a better evaluator. Hope so. Maybe he’ll become a better recruiter. The service everyone around here claims is the most unbiased of the services doesn’t seem to share the view of this board.

I’m not even negative in manny as a recruiter. Some of you all are so triggered you can’t handle a balanced discussion without melting down.

For the record, I like his newfound focus on recruiting. I said he wasn’t a good recruirer when he got hired and I’m glad he’s focused on improving in that area. But the idea he’s prove he’s a great recruiter, sorry, don’t agree yet.
 
305to954 said:
Based on what is my question?? Testing? Production or the never unquestionable it’s been 10-15 years since I’ve seen them “eye test”
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In sports, you sometimes have to trust your eye, or at least comsider the data it gives you. If you aren’t old enough to have watched those guys, so this one out.
 
Ethnicsands said:
In sports, you sometimes have to trust your eye, or at least comsider the data it gives you. If you aren’t old enough to have watched those guys, so this one out.
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I’m old to have watched and appreciate all of those in question bruh..I also understand the “back in my day” argument thats used across sports. I’m not saying shaq was better then any of them. But like I said in a previous thread regarding this subject Shaq is just as good as the Spence, perryman, Beason, gooden (sr szn) and others..the argument ppl who didn’t give that respect brought up speed and athleticism..when in fact the empirical data says shaq was just as fast as those guys..aside from gooden...regency bias is a *****
 
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305to954 said:
I’m old to have watched and appreciate all of those in question bruh..I also understand the “back in my day” argument thats used across sports. I’m not saying shaq was better then any of them. But like I said in a previous thread regarding this subject Shaq is just as good as the Spence, perryman, Beason, gooden (sr szn) and others..the argument ppl who didn’t give that respect brought up speed and athleticism..when in fact the empirical data says shaq was just as fast as those guys..aside from gooden...regency bias is a *****
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You’re completely wrong, imo. We will never agree about this. The nfl completely dsiagrees with you also. And leaving gooden out of this. Focusing on spence, beason, perey,an. Shaq is not the plsyer those guys were. Sorry.
 
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