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Lonnie entering the draft

OriginalGatorHater said:
I agree that Lonnie is nowhere near the talent level as any of those guys, but I was disagreeing that almost all of the top players are 2 and done. Of the top 10 players in the league only 2 spent more than 1 year in college. One and dones have the highest chance of being an all star statistically. I would have preferred Lonnie to come back aswell, but with the money he makes off his contract he could always come back later and just pay for his education.
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spurs and warriors were built around guys who stayed in school. Like i said, there will always be guys who are just elite exceptions but in most cases, the guys like lonnie walker make a big mistake.
 
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nycane said:
spurs and warriors were built around guys who stayed in school. Like i said, there will always be guys who are just elite exceptions but in most cases, the guys like lonnie walker make a big mistake.
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I wonder why... Maybe because there are so few one and dones it would be impossible to have a team loaded with them. Even if you where able to grab 5 of them the team wouldn't be able to keep them due to the salary cap. I could say the Lakers during their dynasty, the Cavs currently, Celtics currently, and the Raptors currently were built around one and done and straight out of HS players. Also, KD is on the warriors and he left school early. Curry is the outlier who took longer to develop then most other NBA players. You must not watch the NBA to state a ridiculous fact like that. Is Lonnie making a mistake? Maybe. However, most of the best players are 1 and dones. Look at the percentage of 1 and dones that go to the allstar game vs 2 and dones. This years stats: 20% where no college. 60% where 1 and done. 10% where 2 and dones. 10% where 3 and dones.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
I wonder why... Maybe because there are so few one and dones it would be impossible to have a team loaded with them. Even if you where able to grab 5 of them the team wouldn't be able to keep them due to the salary cap. I could say the Lakers during their dynasty, the Cavs currently, Celtics currently, and the Raptors currently were built around one and done and straight out of HS players. Also, KD is on the warriors and he left school early. Curry is the outlier who took longer to develop then most other NBA players. You must not watch the NBA to state a ridiculous fact like that. Is Lonnie making a mistake? Maybe. However, most of the best players are 1 and dones. Look at the percentage of 1 and dones that go to the allstar game vs 2 and dones. This years stats: 20% where no college. 60% where 1 and done. 10% where 2 and dones. 10% where 3 and dones.
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dude i watch the nba. the quality of play is HORRIBLE. no one plays defense, big man can even post up, guys dont have mid-range games, etc
do you realize how many points a guy like michael jordan, isiah thomas, or larry bird would score with todays rules and lack of fundamentals?
 
nycane said:
dude i watch the nba. the quality of play is HORRIBLE. no one plays defense, big man can even post up, guys dont have mid-range games, etc
do you realize how many points a guy like michael jordan, isiah thomas, or larry bird would score with todays rules and lack of fundamentals?
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First off. That has nothing to do with the question at hand. None of current all stars would all of a sudden start playing more like the old school guys just because they came back for a second year. Second of all do you know why players play differently today then they did in the pre 00s? The reason why the game revoles around the PG instead of the center? It is because hand checking is no longer legal. Jordan, Thomas, and Bird would all foul out quickly if they played like they did in their era. If Shaq tried 80% of his post moves in todays era he would foul out after a few minutes of play. It has nothing to do with talent it has to do with rule changes. On top of that players know are more talented now that is a fact. Their are more HS basketball teams then ever before, more youth programs that allow kids to play youth basketball for free, more EYBL, AAU, CYO, Camps, etc to pull in more kids then ever before. With all the concussion stuff happening tons of parents have their kids play basketball instead of boxing or football which increases the talent level even further. Nutrition, technique, drugs, coaching, strength and conditioning, etc. are all at an all time high. Take the top 10 guys from each era and todays guys are the fastest, strongest, biggest, of all time. Players practice with the most elite time efficient drills instead of just doing a few different drills all day like they did in the 80s.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
First off. That has nothing to do with the question at hand. None of current all stars would all of a sudden start playing more like the old school guys just because they came back for a second year. Second of all do you know why players play differently today then they did in the pre 00s? The reason why the game revoles around the PG instead of the center? It is because hand checking is no longer legal. Jordan, Thomas, and Bird would all foul out quickly if they played like they did in their era. If Shaq tried 80% of his post moves in todays era he would foul out after a few minutes of play. It has nothing to do with talent it has to do with rule changes. On top of that players know are more talented now that is a fact. Their are more HS basketball teams then ever before, more youth programs that allow kids to play youth basketball for free, more EYBL, AAU, CYO, Camps, etc to pull in more kids then ever before. With all the concussion stuff happening tons of parents have their kids play basketball instead of boxing or football which increases the talent level even further. Nutrition, technique, drugs, coaching, strength and conditioning, etc. are all at an all time high. Take the top 10 guys from each era and todays guys are the fastest, strongest, biggest, of all time. Players practice with the most elite time efficient drills instead of just doing a few different drills all day like they did in the 80s.
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players might be physically in better shape but their fundamentals are horrible. the end. AAU and all that ruined the game. alot of guys today are softer and dont understand team ball.
 
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nycane said:
players might be physically in better shape but their fundamentals are horrible. the end. AAU and all that ruined the game. alot of guys today are softer and dont understand team ball.
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Their fundamentals are not horrible. The game doesn't allow them to hand check. It was outlawed. That is why you may think guys don't play defense anymore. Shooters are more consistent today then ever before and even 4s and 5s can hit threes at this point. AAU did the opposite and actually allows top kids to play against other top kids instead of playing a bunch of scrubs their whole life until they hit college. That is why the current NBA players are so good. So what is your logic here? Roy Williams, Coach K, Calipari, Izzo, and nba coaches like Popovich and Phil Jackson all just decided randomly that after 2004(the year hand checking became illegal) that they would stop teaching fundamentals. They figured they would be better off if they just stopped teaching their guys to play defense.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
Their fundamentals are not horrible. The game doesn't allow them to hand check. It was outlawed. That is why you may think guys don't play defense anymore. Shooters are more consistent today then ever before and even 4s and 5s can hit threes at this point. AAU did the opposite and actually allows top kids to play against other top kids instead of playing a bunch of scrubs their whole life until they hit college. That is why the current NBA players are so good. So what is your logic here? Roy Williams, Coach K, Calipari, Izzo, and nba coaches like Popovich and Phil Jackson all just decided randomly that after 2004(the year hand checking became illegal) that they would stop teaching fundamentals. They figured they would be better off if they just stopped teaching their guys to play defense.
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2 of the top 15 players in the nba just off head are THE WORST defenders ive probably ever seen. I mean even high school level bad. And one is the MVP in James Harden the other is Kyrie Irving. That handchecking nonsense your spewing is bullsh*t. They dont play defense...and they are fundamentally bad..or **** a bunch of low iq basketball players currently playing in the nba ..Shaqtin a fooling it away.
 
nycane said:
Giannis grew up in europe. different. Klay, Kwahi, westbrook, paul george, draymond, lillard, etc. Kyrie is the son of a pro. There are always exceptions but the majority of guys need development. Lonnie Walker is not as good nor will he be in the league of the kids you named.
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I disagree. Lonnie isn't as good now, but he will be at least decent in the NBA. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being an all star in 3 or 4 years.
 
gogeta4 said:
2 of the top 15 players in the nba just off head are THE WORST defenders ive probably ever seen. I mean even high school level bad. And one is the MVP in James Harden the other is Kyrie Irving. That handchecking nonsense your spewing is bullsh*t. They dont play defense...and they are fundamentally bad..or **** a bunch of low iq basketball players currently playing in the nba ..Shaqtin a fooling it away.
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Harden is not that bad at defense its just that every time he makes a mistake its a not top 10 level mistake so you see it all over TV. They had defensive scrubs at every era. Magic, Steve Nash, and Barkley were all top guys in their era and were worse at defense then Kyrie or Harden. The hand checking is not bull****. http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html look at 2004 when they added in Hand Checking being illegal. You literally aren't allowed to defend like you could in the 90s and before that is why it looks like they don't defend well. This rule change gave a huge advantage to the offense in the current rules. That is like saying the dudes in the NFL have terrible fundamentals because they don't make tackles like they did in the 90s.
 
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Sometimes I can't stand how the NFL overvalues draft picks but I'll take it over how wack the NBA has become. Some team probably will be more than happy to take Walker on the edge of the lottery and then have to develop him (which is why I never said him leaving early was wrong for his immediate financial future).

Can you imagine a team in the NFL taking a RB or WR at that spot.....and hoping they'd be good like 4 years from now? I mean maybe they used to do that with QBs but even that is a distant memory. In today's NBA I guess the only draft picks you can legitimately hold to a standard of "Hey, let's see some production NOW" are like the top 5. It's basically a very pleasant surprise if guys past that shine right away.
 
IV would have definitely benefited from another year.

Not that it will happen, but imagine next year without IV, Brown and Huell.
 
jhtheking said:
I disagree. Lonnie isn't as good now, but he will be at least decent in the NBA. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being an all star in 3 or 4 years.
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my point is if MOST of these kids stayed 2-3 years, they would get paid more on their 2nd contract. the big money comes from second contracts so if lonnie spends two years floating around the G league or barely playing, he wont cash in as much. he if went back, improved his draft status and developed more physically and mentally, it would be better for him.
 
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Tad Footeball said:
Sometimes I can't stand how the NFL overvalues draft picks but I'll take it over how wack the NBA has become. Some team probably will be more than happy to take Walker on the edge of the lottery and then have to develop him (which is why I never said him leaving early was wrong for his immediate financial future).

Can you imagine a team in the NFL taking a RB or WR at that spot.....and hoping they'd be good like 4 years from now? I mean maybe they used to do that with QBs but even that is a distant memory. In today's NBA I guess the only draft picks you can legitimately hold to a standard of "Hey, let's see some production NOW" are like the top 5. It's basically a very pleasant surprise if guys past that shine right away.
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so right. NBA loves workout warriors. then a kid like kuzma, brogdon, etc will slip and come into the league and play well. Who wanted Fred VanFleet? meanwhile the kid is playing well. meanwhile the same people are still saying how great zach lavine can be lol.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
Harden is not that bad at defense its just that every time he makes a mistake its a not top 10 level mistake so you see it all over TV. They had defensive scrubs at every era. Magic, Steve Nash, and Barkley were all top guys in their era and were worse at defense then Kyrie or Harden. The hand checking is not bull****. http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html look at 2004 when they added in Hand Checking being illegal. You literally aren't allowed to defend like you could in the 90s and before that is why it looks like they don't defend well. This rule change gave a huge advantage to the offense in the current rules. That is like saying the dudes in the NFL have terrible fundamentals because they don't make tackles like they did in the 90s.
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thats part of the point. you think lebron or harden are putting up those numbers if they had to go against that defense? the NBA today is a very soft league. i watch a game a few weeks ago, all Karl Anthony Towns is doing is shooting spot up threes and im thinking to myself, this kid could score 40 points easily in the paint and hes playing like kyle korver. my frustration is not kids getting paid, its what the NBA has become.
 
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His decision to make.

Great talent, just wish more was shown while here.

Unfortunately I don't think he'll go as high as he hopes. Too many unanswered questions

But as a Cane I wish him the best
 
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Lil Bryant 305 said:
This **** investigation really hurt us
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Not sure why you were down voted except that they probably thought you meant the investigation is causing people to leave early. Not so.

All 3 of them came to Miami with intentions of staying only as long as necessary, with Walker and Brown only thinking 1 and done absent injury, such as Brown's situation.

As to recruiting, there is absolutely no refuting the negative impact.

UM
 
Fightinibis said:
Not sure why you were down voted except that they probably thought you meant the investigation is causing people to leave early. Not so.

All 3 of them came to Miami with intentions of staying only as long as necessary, with Walker and Brown only thinking 1 and done absent injury, such as Brown's situation.

As to recruiting, there is absolutely no refuting the negative impact.

UM
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Yes, that's what I meant Ibis, the recruiting aspect of it all... I'm hoping we get some good news with transfers to replace Lonnie & Brown...We shall see? You still over at Cun*sports?
 
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