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Lessons from Jeff Stoutland

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Cuban-Cane said:
O linemen are not ready in a year. This is the type of blind criticism Im always talking about on here.
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Where did I say they were supposed to be ready? I layed out the facts of the situation. Richt & Searles have completely mishandled oline recruiting. They were dealt a bad hand, but no one cares about the hand you were dealt three seasons in. Especially when you are in the Coastal Division. We've regressed at oline

- Richt said we won't be back until the 3 players in the 2018 class are ready
- 2014 class - KC and Darling are gone.
- 2015 class - James Coley touted as "the best oline class in the country," never came close to that billing. St. Louis, Gauthier, and Jones are all gone after this year.
- 2016 class - we landed Tre Johnson who isn't here anymore. I can give Richt a pass because it was a transition class, but the failure to find any capable players can be seen on the field
- 2017 class - have all severely underperformed or not been developed yet. Concerning that Herbert couldn't find his way onto the field despite the amount of upperclassmen who transferred or never play (Brown, Milo).
- 2018 class - one of our commits just flipped to UF while the other is on the verge of joining him. Our top target Evan Neal is a longshot. Flipping Darius Washington looks like a longshot but we have better odds with Maurice Smith. However, we are still extremely thin at OT. We've ignored multiple P5 linemen in Broward & Dade County.

With all this in mind, the 2018 kids (Reed, Scaife, & Campbell) may have to start most, if not all, of 2019. Scaife, Campbell, and Hillary are our returning two deep tackles. Campbell and Hillary have almost 0 game exp. So Richt/Searles better get them ready.
 
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Matthew_Suero said:
I'm not defending Searles but we did offer Maurice Smith yesterday. He's the best offensive lineman in Dade this class.
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....a year too late lol.

Look the entire offensive recruiting strategy this year has been downright retarded. No otherway to put it. The only thing they did right was hop on Crowley early - but they lost him, and make Evan Neal the top priority - which was completely unsuccessful.
Honestly keeping Payton and potentially landing Haslewood is looking like the ONLY positive from offensive recruiting this entire cycle, which is completely embarrassing.
 
DMoney said:
Our offensive line is bad. And the class is looking shaky. This got me thinking about Jeff Stoutland. He was our OL coach from 2007 to 2010. While at Miami, Stoutland signed five linemen who went on to start games in the NFL. For comparison, Alabama only signed four during the same time period.

Stoutland is now the OL coach for the Philadelphia Eagles, and is considered one of the best in the NFL. I studied his evaluation patterns and learned a couple important things:

City over country: Canes fans love to say that “we need country kids and Midwestern farm boys on the offensive line.” This is wrong. Those kids don’t usually like the city of Miami. It’s not a cultural fit. Stoutland recognized this and focused on city kids. He signed good players from places like Memphis, Omaha and St. Paul. None of the kids he signed were from rural areas.

Build a wall around South Florida: Another myth is that we should not recruit South Florida OL. If you look at the guys who have started for us and gone on to the NFL in this decade, they are usually from South Florida. The busts (Wells, Milo, Gadbois, Dykstra) came from out of state. It is better to get the cream of the crop locally than out-of-state leftovers who are not as easy to evaluate. Stoutland signed 64% of his OL from South Florida.

Culture matters: Stoutland was known as a good recruiter who connected with players. He was also from New York City, which fits in well with the two points above. Searels is a hard-*** country boy from Trion, Georgia. I’ve heard he’s a good guy, but I’ve also heard he has trouble connecting with players. We need a great teacher first and foremost, but it also makes sense to find someone who can connect with city kids.

Stoutland's signees (2007-2010):

Brandon Linder (Broward)
Orlando Franklin (Palm Beach)
Jon Feliciano (Broward)
Seantrel Henderson (St. Paul, MN)
Harland Gunn (Omaha, NE)
Tyler Horn (Memphis, TN)
Brandon Washington (Miami)
Shane McDermott (Palm Beach)
Ben Jones (Miami)
Jermaine Johnson (Broward)
Jared Wheeler (Broward)
Malcolm Bunche (Newark, DE)
Jermaine Barton (Broward)
Cory White (Jacksonville)
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"City over country"
This is a great idea man. Apply it to every position when possible. The city could/should be used as major selling point. And if Jadon Haselwood signs with Miami, it really proves your point.
 
Great post D$ the problem is - Searles is the opposite and is "County over City"
 
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Which chapter of the Stoutland book does “Don’t Sign Any Recruits” fall under?

Asking for my dlckhead friend Stacy.
 
When it comes to Oline coaches, i don't care if the guy is country or city.......i care that the guy is a stud technical coach and can identify successful traits in recruits.
 
gogeta4 said:
I really liked Last years class. They come back this year and i was ho hum about it...even with the commits. We need to recruit that position at a high level EVERY YEAR....I mean Nationally...But im still olf the mind we need a Grad Transfer and a Juco guy....we have some weight on the OL that really needs to be processed. We're not where we at until we start churning the roster to where guys have to transfer out that get beat out by freshmen
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We need to have any and all 3* border line guys... Weldon, Burns, Hillery, Miller, etc. in 3 year degree programs. 1st year you redshirt, 2nd year you get some reps, 3rd year you got to show you can really contribute in your 4th year... if not well now you are a grad transfer, thank you for being a Hurricane.
 
DMoney said:
It’s about who we can sign. I would rather get the best South Florida kids than the leftover Iowa kids.

And I think we should go out of state. But we need to focus on cities.
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I’d take Iowa’s o-line over Miami’s in about every year dating back 15 years. Most, if not all of those offensive lineman would be considered too slow, leftover, jags, or need too much development. Still, they outperform Miami in almost every measure.

The simple reason for this is development. Schools like Iowa rely on development over signing the shiny 5 star; because of that they have built a revolving door of great o-lines.

Miami needs to do some soul searching and realize wishing we get every 5 star isn’t happening; especially at o-line in Miami. Find a coach that can develop, find a strength coach that is effective, find kids that have some desire. In short, develop a strategy and get coaches that can execute it.

You say get South Florida kids, fine go get them; it won’t matter until we have someone that can develop.
 
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MarkyMark said:
I’d take Iowa’s o-line over Miami’s in about every year dating back 15 years. Most, if not all of those offensive lineman would be considered too slow, leftover, jags, or need too much development. Still, they outperform Miami in almost every measure.

The simple reason for this is development. Schools like Iowa rely on development over signing the shiny 5 star; because of that they have built a revolving door of great o-lines.

Miami needs to do some soul searching and realize wishing we get every 5 star isn’t happening; especially at o-line in Miami. Find a coach that can develop, find a strength coach that is effective, find kids that have some desire. In short, develop a strategy and get coaches that can execute it.

You say get South Florida kids, fine go get them; it won’t matter until we have someone that can develop.
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No doubt we need better development. That’s a different thread.

This thread is about recruiting. Iowa has access to local players and is able to identify and sign the talented kids.

We don’t have that same local advantage in Iowa. That’s why the two Iowa kids we signed (Matt Pipho and Zack Dykstra) lacked talent.
 
DMoney said:
Our offensive line is bad. And the class is looking shaky. This got me thinking about Jeff Stoutland. He was our OL coach from 2007 to 2010. While at Miami, Stoutland signed five linemen who went on to start games in the NFL. For comparison, Alabama only signed four during the same time period.

Stoutland is now the OL coach for the Philadelphia Eagles, and is considered one of the best in the NFL. I studied his evaluation patterns and learned a couple important things:

City over country: Canes fans love to say that “we need country kids and Midwestern farm boys on the offensive line.” This is wrong. Those kids don’t usually like the city of Miami. It’s not a cultural fit. Stoutland recognized this and focused on city kids. He signed good players from places like Memphis, Omaha and St. Paul. None of the kids he signed were from rural areas.

Build a wall around South Florida: Another myth is that we should not recruit South Florida OL. If you look at the guys who have started for us and gone on to the NFL in this decade, they are usually from South Florida. The busts (Wells, Milo, Gadbois, Dykstra) came from out of state. It is better to get the cream of the crop locally than out-of-state leftovers who are not as easy to evaluate. Stoutland signed 64% of his OL from South Florida.

Culture matters: Stoutland was known as a good recruiter who connected with players. He was also from New York City, which fits in well with the two points above. Searels is a hard-*** country boy from Trion, Georgia. I’ve heard he’s a good guy, but I’ve also heard he has trouble connecting with players. We need a great teacher first and foremost, but it also makes sense to find someone who can connect with city kids.

Stoutland's signees (2007-2010):

Brandon Linder (Broward)
Orlando Franklin (Palm Beach)
Jon Feliciano (Broward)
Seantrel Henderson (St. Paul, MN)
Harland Gunn (Omaha, NE)
Tyler Horn (Memphis, TN)
Brandon Washington (Miami)
Shane McDermott (Palm Beach)
Ben Jones (Miami)
Jermaine Johnson (Broward)
Jared Wheeler (Broward)
Malcolm Bunche (Newark, DE)
Jermaine Barton (Broward)
Cory White (Jacksonville)
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Great post, D.

I happened to catch some of an Eagles game the other week and they had singled out Stoutland. He’s obviously an extremely good coach and we were lucky to have him.

Tough to say, there have been quite a few OL we’ve had that looked like lost causes only to make an impact later in their careers. Do we have those types? Gaynor, Dykstra, Herbert etc to compliment immediate starters like we used to get? IIRC even Harland Gunn started most of his career.

To be the biggest concern is we have not had guys in the RIGHT place since Stoutland was here. I remember BWash been sorely misused here at tackle but it seems we’ve been doing that non stop. It’s one thing to recruit maybe less talented guys than optimal, but then COMPOUND that by asking them to play a position that doesn’t suit them.

That’s been the most maddeningly consistent issue on our OL to me anyway.
 
DMoney said:
Our offensive line is bad. And the class is looking shaky. This got me thinking about Jeff Stoutland. He was our OL coach from 2007 to 2010. While at Miami, Stoutland signed five linemen who went on to start games in the NFL. For comparison, Alabama only signed four during the same time period.

Stoutland is now the OL coach for the Philadelphia Eagles, and is considered one of the best in the NFL. I studied his evaluation patterns and learned a couple important things:

City over country: Canes fans love to say that “we need country kids and Midwestern farm boys on the offensive line.” This is wrong. Those kids don’t usually like the city of Miami. It’s not a cultural fit. Stoutland recognized this and focused on city kids. He signed good players from places like Memphis, Omaha and St. Paul. None of the kids he signed were from rural areas.

Build a wall around South Florida: Another myth is that we should not recruit South Florida OL. If you look at the guys who have started for us and gone on to the NFL in this decade, they are usually from South Florida. The busts (Wells, Milo, Gadbois, Dykstra) came from out of state. It is better to get the cream of the crop locally than out-of-state leftovers who are not as easy to evaluate. Stoutland signed 64% of his OL from South Florida.

Culture matters: Stoutland was known as a good recruiter who connected with players. He was also from New York City, which fits in well with the two points above. Searels is a hard-*** country boy from Trion, Georgia. I’ve heard he’s a good guy, but I’ve also heard he has trouble connecting with players. We need a great teacher first and foremost, but it also makes sense to find someone who can connect with city kids.

Stoutland's signees (2007-2010):

Brandon Linder (Broward)
Orlando Franklin (Palm Beach)
Jon Feliciano (Broward)
Seantrel Henderson (St. Paul, MN)
Harland Gunn (Omaha, NE)
Tyler Horn (Memphis, TN)
Brandon Washington (Miami)
Shane McDermott (Palm Beach)
Ben Jones (Miami)
Jermaine Johnson (Broward)
Jared Wheeler (Broward)
Malcolm Bunche (Newark, DE)
Jermaine Barton (Broward)
Cory White (Jacksonville)
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Orlando Franklin was the biggest pos that ever played here. False start or holding continually. And how did he do in the superbowl? Got man handled.
 
The problem with this analysis is it does not account for rankings. We pull stronger talent from our own backyard compared to other places. We often recruit players from other states who do not have offers from the local big name schools.

If you are trying to figure out where we should pull OL from then look at where OL are being drafted from, or the OL of the playoffs teams.
 
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This post is 1.5 years old, and our OL still sucks. Barry's failure in South Florida (in a year when the region sent five OL to Top 10 teams) is particularly egregious.

Justice is doing a much better job of recruiting locally and seems to be more personable than the last two coaches. With that said, we still need to improve the body types along the OL. It's fine to have a couple undersized bulldogs, but we need more monsters like that 2013 OL. I hope we scour the national metro areas to see if there are any oversized basketball kids or DL converts that haven't blown up yet.

Here are the starters in spring, along with the last two classes:

Starters in spring

LT- Campbell (Orlando)
LG- Traore (Atlanta)
C- Gaynor (Broward)
RG- Scaife (Miami)
RT- Herbert (Broward)

2020

Jalen Rivers (Jacksonville)
Chris Washington (Nashville)
Issiah Walker (Miami)

2021

Ryan Rodriguez (Miami)
Laurence Seymore (Miami)
Michael McClaughlin (Broward)
 
DMoney said:
This post is 1.5 years old, and our OL still sucks. Barry's failure in South Florida (in a year where the region sent five OL to Top 10 teams) is particularly egregious.

Justice is doing a much better job of recruiting locally and seems to be more personable than the last two coaches. With that said, we still need to improve the body types along the OL. It's fine to have a couple undersized bulldogs, but we need more monsters like that 2013 OL. I hope we scour the national metro areas to see if there are any oversized basketball kids or DL converts that haven't blown up yet.

Here are the starters in spring, along with the last two classes:

Starters in spring

LT- Campbell (Orlando)
LG- Traore (Atlanta)
C- Gaynor (Broward)
RG- Scaife (Dade)
RT- Herbert (Broward)

2020

Jalen Rivers (Jacksonville)
Chris Washington (Nashville)
Issiah Walker (Miami)

2021

Ryan Rodriguez (Miami)
Laurence Seymore (Miami)
Michael McClaughlin (Broward)
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Bolder the most important part of your post. As a leader, which is a coach is, being personable is one of the most valuable traits when dealing with individuals who want/need to be led.you can still be a tough, hard nose coach and still be personable. The two don’t have to be sacrificed. Unfortunately most people (old school mindset) don’t see things that way and often struggle. We live in a microwave society. So if **** Butkus, and Mike Singletary aren’t walking through the front door as players you have to be likeable Leader who can connect.
 
DMoney said:
This post is 1.5 years old, and our OL still sucks. Barry's failure in South Florida (in a year when the region sent five OL to Top 10 teams) is particularly egregious.

Justice is doing a much better job of recruiting locally and seems to be more personable than the last two coaches. With that said, we still need to improve the body types along the OL. It's fine to have a couple undersized bulldogs, but we need more monsters like that 2013 OL. I hope we scour the national metro areas to see if there are any oversized basketball kids or DL converts that haven't blown up yet.

Here are the starters in spring, along with the last two classes:

Starters in spring

LT- Campbell (Orlando)
LG- Traore (Atlanta)
C- Gaynor (Broward)
RG- Scaife (Miami)
RT- Herbert (Broward)

2020

Jalen Rivers (Jacksonville)
Chris Washington (Nashville)
Issiah Walker (Miami)

2021

Ryan Rodriguez (Miami)
Laurence Seymore (Miami)
Michael McClaughlin (Broward)
Click to expand...

Great who locally has performed at an all conference level in that 2018/2019 class that we missed on

Since your wanting to pound on your chest here
 
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You can not develop linemen with a revolving door of offensive line coaches. How can a kid get developed if he’s had three different offensive line coaches in the past two years.
 
dwreck27 said:
Great who locally has performed at an all conference level in that 2018/2019 class that we missed on
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2018 was a weak class locally. We got Scaife and he’s our best OL by a mile.

In 2019, Dontae Lucas made freshman AA teams and was voted one of Athlon’s 35 breakout players for 2020.

But the real frustration came from Kaleb Boateng. He’s a guy I posted about all year. When we were scrambling late, he seemed like a no-brainer offer. We still ignored him. Then on signing day, he signed with Clemson.
 
And I think developing players is blow out of proportion some times because of the instability of coaches constantly leaving for better opportunities.
 
DMoney said:
2018 was a weak class locally. We got Scaife and he’s our best OL by a mile.

In 2019, Dontae Lucas made freshman AA teams and was voted one of Athlon’s 35 breakout players for 2020.

But the real frustration came from Kaleb Boateng. He’s a guy I posted about all year. When we were scrambling late, he seemed like a no-brainer offer. We still ignored him. Then on signing day, he signed with Clemson.
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Dontae Lucas reminds me of another Donaldson (who also got Fresh AA) dude is fat and was unimpressive... mostly getting the honors due to freshmen playing little at the position

Scaife I will agree has been our best olinemen in a room that is a joke.

I’m not even going to talk about Kaleb who is currently an after thought and I’m sure even die hard clemson fans on their boards would have to be reminded of him even being on the roster
 
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