Landon Ibieta Hudl HiLites

[Ethnicsands]

In retrospect, I think the one thing Pope lacked a little bit was productivity in the football games he played. I can't find his HS stats but I vaguely remember him having like 30ish catches for 600 yards as a junior on that state champion Southridge team, and that being his best season.
But yeah, he did very well in 7 v. 7 camps, was a UA AA, and got invited to the finals of The Opening.

That's my recollection also.

 

[Ethnicsands]

We have no luck developing/getting NFL WRs. It is odd to be located in an area this rich and in a 15 year span the best we can put in the NFL as a prospect is Dorsett. AR looked to be on the path but he had some bad health luck.

That's a staggering statement and indictment on our program at the WR position IMO

When you're as consistently bad as we've been, it's not bad luck. We're doing it wrong. You're correct.

NFL spends millions on scouting, they have a thorough vetting process plus they are evaluating amore mature and develop product. Yet they get it wrong a lot, why should we care about what some site of amateurs tells us about who is a four or five star.

I think you misunderstand the issue. A lot of folks have posted stuff like you just did over the years. Uncertainty in any instances is a totally separate topic from consistently bad choices that form a pattern. The NFL may get it wrong 50% of the time. If so, that's considered average, and an NFL team that gets it wrong 60% of the time is doing poorly, while an NFL team that gets it right 60% of the time is doing much better than average. The under-performing staff can expect to get fired at some point. The out-performing staff is likely winning on the field, also. Even the best teams may get it wrong a lot, because it's an uncertainty business. But getting it right more often than the average competitors is how you stay better than them.

At UM, the pattern shows we've evaluated really poorly at WR, IMO. Consistently poor outcomes in an area rich in WR prospects.

As for whether you should care what other people's opinions are, totally up to you, but not sure why you're posting here if you think the opinions expressed here don't matter.

 

[Ethnicsands]

I don’t think anyone knows what the problem with pope is or was. But everyone misses and it might not be an evaluation of talent problem.
There simply may be too much weight placed into who offers.
Look at Tyrel Shavers’ tape for example. Dude was a borderline 5 star and committed to Bama. Then he transferred to Mississippi state and now at San Diego state. He was tall and bullied high school kids. But he couldn’t get any separation against any decent db but could catch the ball in traffic. I Assume when the level of talent at db got better and more physical he was a liability instead of an asset.

Now hindsight is 20/20 but compare that to AR’s film. There is a difference in his speed from his junior and senior film. His running is more crisp and he looks bigger.
He was also heavily courted by Saban and even lashlee was recruiting him hard to auburn.


Ultimately no one knows why some player develops better than other and we give credit to some coach that may or may not be teaching the same thing as another coach. No one is consistently putting 3 stars as day 1 or 2 pick in the league at any position on a consistent basis to say they are some guru.
I always felt that Pope just wasn’t buying into the system or the coaching and in his mind he defeated himself. And 3 offensive staffs may have worsened the situation for him despite other players saying fck it im grinding regardless.

AR was the best outside receiver we’ve had since Andre Johnson. And like I posted before it would be easier to find an Antonio Brown than it would be to find another AR.

No program gets it right 100% of the time. But you have to avoid being bad at it consistently. When you are missing over and over, you have to pick apart what you're doing to see if you're missing something. That's the point.

Butch knew what to look for in kids. JJ did. Carroll did. Saban does. Meyer does.

 

[pacusmc]

I will say this "star slurper teams" aka best recruiting teams, those who accumulate (slurp up) the most stars are the ones in the Final 4 year after year after year. You can downplay it all you want but it's a fact, "star slurping" teams are winning teams. Are there misses? WELL OF COURSE, but if you bring in multiple 4-5 star guys at every position there can be misses and you can still win.

that's a fact in today's CFB recruiting World unfortunately

Agree but the point you bring up about stacking blue chip players is one that I bring up constantly with the “development” dudes.
We get one blue chip and he doesn’t go in the first three rounds and we suck at development. The frontrunners bring in truck loads of receivers and get 3 or 4 in the first round and they “develop”. Remember that the same people that recruited and coached AR are also the ones that recruited Pope. One broke the freshman receiving record and was poised to be a first rounder while the other has been dragged through the mud on here. The receivers coach for Cooper wasn't the same one that coached Waddle or Smith.
And the same dudes that recruited Jeudy also recruited Xavier Williams and Jones bell. It’s a **** crap shoot just like in the nfl.
But the frontrunners go after whales like Cooper and Jeudy and we like some dumb assess try to go to toe with them while we could’ve easily landed a player like ty Hilton. And this imo is exactly what is happening with Ibieta right now and LsU. They’re going after whales and don’t see some under the radar guy as worth the risk while they e been following some 5 star for 2 years.

 

[Ethnicsands]

I will say this "star slurper teams" aka best recruiting teams, those who accumulate (slurp up) the most stars are the ones in the Final 4 year after year after year. You can downplay it all you want but it's a fact, "star slurping" teams are winning teams. Are there misses? WELL OF COURSE, but if you bring in multiple 4-5 star guys at every position there can be misses and you can still win.

that's a fact in today's CFB recruiting World unfortunately

I disagree with this. Those .teams aren't 'star slurpers' at all. They're good evaluators and attract talent. The stars follow them, not the other way around.

Coker was a 'star slurper', in that he recruited off lists.

 

[puertorricane]

When you're as consistently bad as we've been, it's not bad luck. We're doing it wrong. You're correct.


I think you misunderstand the issue. A lot of folks have posted stuff like you just did over the years. Uncertainty in any instances is a totally separate topic from consistently bad choices that form a pattern. The NFL may get it wrong 50% of the time. If so, that's considered average, and an NFL team that gets it wrong 60% of the time is doing poorly, while an NFL team that gets it right 60% of the time is doing much better than average. The under-performing staff can expect to get fired at some point. The out-performing staff is likely winning on the field, also. Even the best teams may get it wrong a lot, because it's an uncertainty business. But getting it right more often than the average competitors is how you stay better than them.

At UM, the pattern shows we've evaluated really poorly at WR, IMO. Consistently poor outcomes in an area rich in WR prospects.

As for whether you should care what other people's opinions are, totally up to you, but not sure why you're posting here if you think the opinions expressed here don't matter.

My point is the websites opinions dont matter. Who the f cares if Ibieta is a 3 star or 5 star according to the sites.
If he can play he's a take.
Time will tell if this staff can evaluate or not. But you can't attribute past staffs patterns or misses on this staff.

 

[ageezy]

I disagree with this. Those .teams aren't 'star slurpers' at all. They're good evaluators and attract talent. The stars follow them, not the other way around.

Coker was a 'star slurper', in that he recruited off lists.

this ... in most cases it starts by having success with lesser talented guys, which leads to a talented guy coming and showout (amari cooper) then you parlay that into more guys and go from there ... we had the blueprint working believe it or not ... berrios/ar 82 had some success got us pope and unfortunately pope has **** the bed ... now the cycle has to start again, harley has had some success and hopefully lamb and we build from there

 

[pacusmc]

No program gets it right 100% of the time. But you have to avoid being bad at it consistently. When you are missing over and over, you have to pick apart what you're doing to see if you're missing something. That's the point.

Butch knew what to look for in kids. JJ did. Carroll did. Saban does. Meyer does.

They get those dudes by default in numbers. We praise all those coaches wins and don’t even pay attention to the misses. They also change position coaches all the time. They recruit the best players and take a Darwinian approach and tell them sink or swim.
Bama has an 88% blue chip ratio and most of those players will never see the draft. But they’re good enough to beat most of the teams. And their good enough to make the starters practice and work so nobody benches them.
Over the past 15 years we haven’t recruited the level of talent to make anyone that’s a highly Rated player afraid of anyone else on the team taking their spot.

 

[Gooner#44]

Agree but the point you bring up about stacking blue chip players is one that I bring up constantly with the “development” dudes.
We get one blue chip and he doesn’t go in the first three rounds and we suck at development. The frontrunners bring in truck loads of receivers and get 3 or 4 in the first round and they “develop”. Remember that the same people that recruited and coached AR are also the ones that recruited Pope. One broke the freshman receiving record and was poised to be a first rounder while the other has been dragged through the mud on here. The receivers coach for Cooper wasn't the same one that coached Waddle or Smith.
And the same dudes that recruited Jeudy also recruited Xavier Williams and Jones bell. It’s a **** crap shoot just like in the nfl.
But the frontrunners go after whales like Cooper and Jeudy and we like some dumb assess try to go to toe with them while we could’ve easily landed a player like ty Hilton. And this imo is exactly what is happening with Ibieta right now and LsU. They’re going after whales and don’t see some under the radar guy as worth the risk while they e been following some 5 star for 2 years.

For sure, all I'm saying the more rolls I got at that "crapshoot" the better off I'm gonna be when I roll bad, to use your analogy. We gotta sustain winning seasons (10+ not 7-6) and then stack chips. We have been unable to do that in the ACC.

Of course LSU is 5 star hunting and getting them and won a NC a few year back. Look at their WR to the NFL pedigree, they are completely loaded at WR, so they just keep stacking. When you put guys like ODB, DJ Chark, Russell Gage, Justin Jefferson, Landy, Marshall, Chase and on and on in the L you can do that. And if they decide at some point they do want Ibieta, BE CAREFUL, they may just take him.

 

[Ethnicsands]

My point is the websites opinions dont matter. Who the f cares if Ibieta is a 3 star or 5 star according to the sites.
If he can play he's a take.
Time will tell if this staff can evaluate or not. But you can't attribute past staffs patterns or misses on this staff.

Starts are the tail, not the dog. When Manny becomes known for evals and UM becomes proven at recruiting, sites will boost kids we focus on. None of which should matter at all in terms of who we focus on. That's got to come from the staff's evals.

 

[Ethnicsands]

They get those dudes by default in numbers. We praise all those coaches wins and don’t even pay attention to the misses. They also change position coaches all the time. They recruit the best players and take a Darwinian approach and tell them sink or swim.
Bama has an 88% blue chip ratio and most of those players will never see the draft. But they’re good enough to beat most of the teams. And their good enough to make the starters practice and work so nobody benches them.
Over the past 15 years we haven’t recruited the level of talent to make anyone that’s a highly Rated player afraid of anyone else on the team taking their spot.

That makes no sense. You think it's all random and there's nothing to look for to impact evaluations? Then why even post on a recruiting site?

Nothing is 100% random. Some coaches are better than others at evaluations. That assistants change isn't a flaw in this observation -- if anything, it's proof of it. You think this is all 'art' or taste or guessing. I have consistently pointed out on this site for years that it's not that at all. It's process and discipline and hard work. You have to identify what you're looking for, and what you want to rule out / avoid. Physically and on-field and personality / character traits. You have to have a spec for your overall team, and your position groups, and you have to understand your needs and priorities. You have to have a solid, data-driven, systematic approach to identifying kids, prioritizing resources, and making decisions. You have to be willing to go back and re-think and re-prioritize based on new information. There are a lot of decisions that go into evaluations. Any time there are a lot of decisions, some people are going to be better than others at the exercise. Generally, those with process control will prevail. That's Saban, first and foremost.

Anyhow, you say these programs recruit 'the best players.' But that misses the point. The best according to who? You think Alabama and Clemson are recruiting the players that Rivals or 247 recommend? They sure don't think that's what they're doing.

Yes, we have to sell better, change more minds, and coach better. But it starts with evaluating the talent. All organizations start there.

 

[puertorricane]

Starts are the tail, not the dog. When Manny becomes known for evals and UM becomes proven at recruiting, sites will boost kids we focus on. None of which should matter at all in terms of who we focus on. That's got to come from the staff's evals.

You're making my point, why should we care what sites think.

 

[Ethnicsands]

You're making my point, why should we care what sites think.

Depends on who 'we' is. I try to take in information, because it helps me follow recruiting. The staff should certainly not care what sites think, and I'm sure they don't, though I'm also sure they pay attention to all the info. I'm not here to tell people what info to track. The issue with the sites isn't that there's no information there, it's just that it's directional in the aggregate, but often flawed in the specific instance.

 

[SWFLHurricane]

Butch had the best WR Coach in UM History....(and a **** good recruiter as well) the combination of Butch's recruiting prowness, and Curtis Johnsons Coaching was Lethal...

 

[puertorricane]

Depends on who 'we' is. I try to take in information, because it helps me follow recruiting. The staff should certainly not care what sites think, and I'm sure they don't, though I'm also sure they pay attention to all the info. I'm not here to tell people what info to track. The issue with the sites isn't that there's no information there, it's just that it's directional in the aggregate, but often flawed in the specific instance.

The we, are the ones that complain about a player because of his size, stars or lack of offers instead of evaluating the player and his talents.

 

[Gooner#44]

The we, are the ones that complain about a player because of his size, stars or lack of offers instead of evaluating the player and his talents.

I get size and stars being overrated for sure, but honestly I have always been leery of lack of offers. Now he is just a Jr so he has time and should get some but if you don't give offers credence then you are discounting schools that spend millions of dollars to evaluate and give offers.
You think the guys on CIS know more than recruiters that make big $$$ and do it for a living???? Are there some misses? sure there are some it is inevitable, so don't go there.

But if given the choice give me the kid with the Bama, Clemson, OSU offers when it comes down to signing day.

 

[puertorricane]

I get size and stars being overrated for sure, but honestly I have always been leery of lack of offers. Now he is just a Jr so he has time and should get some but if you don't give offers credence then you are discounting schools that spend millions of dollars to evaluate and give offers.
You think the guys on CIS know more than recruiters that make big $$$ and do it for a living???? Are there some misses? sure there are some it is inevitable, so don't go there.

But if given the choice give me the kid with the Bama, Clemson, OSU offers when it comes down to signing day.

Doubt any school in the country spends millions of dollars on scouting.

 

[Gooner#44]

Doubt any school in the country spends millions of dollars on scouting.

OK, I mean HCs, OCs and DCs are paid multi-million dollar salaries to scout and recruit as well as coach, so they are scouting/evaluating and you are dead wrong...... I will tell you this, they pay guys more money than you make to scout HS prospects.

 

[OBLIVION]

Ibieta is seriously underrated and if people can't tell that from watching every move he makes in his hudl I see why they get fooled until the product is displayed in a game every class.

Obviously when you watch Coley, Richards, Ridley and Jeudy you can see men amongst boys. It's hard to get those wrong even for a blind man. Ibieta is not on that tier but he is very good at the WR craft.

Ibieat has a fishing net connected to his hands that just snags the ball.

He sells his routes like a pro and manipulates DB. Two times during his hudl he was in motion and sold the flat just by turning his head for a second just to turn it into a wheel route and be by himself. The young man is great at creating separation and breaks tackles with ease.

This is one guy that I believe we would never here fans ***** that he can't get open or drops passes.

 

[PredaCane]

Good hands, makes contested catches, runs good routes, seems to always find the soft spot in a zone and decent speed. Kid has the goods.