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pacusmc said:
Let’s speculate that what we’re hearing is true from macho.
Then we should ask why. Why is UM treating kids and coaches at Deerfield different?
Why was our staff sitting next to zip’s mom at the stadium all the way at Lakeland but not going all out for a Deerfield kid?
So either it’s bravo Sierra or for whatever reason UM is staying arms length from that school.

However, if there was a problem with a local school you guys don’t think CMR tried to address it?
It was the first thing on the agenda and we read about it constantly how the coaches were all going to school practices and told the local coaches we had an open door policy and to come on campus and ask questions etc. All the local coaches talked about how it was night and day from previous staffs.
But now we suck again?
7-6, bowl embarrassment, coaching change and entire offensive staff canned, no high profile new hire, but we sit there n the top 10 with the classes almost locked up. But Deerfield still has a problem??
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This is wrong. It’s rarely all or nothing. The truth is almost always in between. Macho’s not lying, it’s not ‘BS’. But that doesn’t mean it’s the biggest issue in the world or the same issue everywhere. And it doesn’t mean that it’s intentional, either. We have a first time head coach who was not a great recruiter going into the role, so nothing here is particularly surprising.
 
TheToadSage said:
Why? You don't really believe this do you? Macho loyalty is DB first, he is trying to save face. Macho is also the same guy that praised Diaz for his stunts in Orlando and how Diaz had a beer with all the coaches. Now Diaz can't recruit and is distant from high school coaches? I'm not buying it.
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I believe he is telling us his experience with it, maybe its not all but his own experience which can differ from others. Hes sharing it and thats it, y lie about some stupid **** it has no profit. Thats y i believe it, doesnt mean he cant succeed (MD)
 
TheToadSage said:
"We have ****** recruiters." What does that mean? Apparently, I don't have the reading comprehension.
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You may have bad reading comprehension, but the exchange is pointless. ****** is a relative comment. ‘Can’t recruit’ is absolute. If you agree that UM can do better than it is at recruiting, and you agree that we should be comparing ourselves to the top programs and not mid-level programs, then we can be underperforming relative to peers and our own capabilities, but still doing ‘okay.’ That’s kinda the point at UM. Al Golden brought in Duke J, Howard and Flowers in the same class. Doesn’t mean he was some legendary recruiter. It means we are UM and local kids value staying home sometimes.
 
Dwinstitles said:
I believe he is telling us his experience with it, maybe its not all but his own experience which can differ from others. Hes sharing it and thats it, y lie about some stupid **** it has no profit. Thats y i believe it, doesnt mean he cant succeed (MD)
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Why would anybody lie? Yet, folks still do it. Macho could be telling the truth, but its conflicting reports. I'm not going to buy it.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
You may have bad reading comprehension, but the exchange is pointless. ****** is a relative comment. ‘Can’t recruit’ is absolute. If you agree that UM can do better than it is at recruiting, and you agree that we should be comparing ourselves to the top programs and not mid-level programs, then we can be underperforming relative to peers and our own capabilities, but still doing ‘okay.’ That’s kinda the point at UM. Al Golden brought in Duke J, Howard and Flowers in the same class. Doesn’t mean he was some legendary recruiter. It means we are UM and local kids value staying home sometimes.
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You are nitpicking if you believe being ****** recruiters and can't recruit is truly different. Can we do better? Of course, everyone could do better. I'm not going to attack the man or anyone on this board for that matter. It's the internet, but I'm pleased with this class and what this staff is doing so far. I also expect better results on the field which will lead to better results off the field.
 
Ethnicsands said:
This is wrong. It’s rarely all or nothing. The truth is almost always in between. Macho’s not lying, it’s not ‘BS’. But that doesn’t mean it’s the biggest issue in the world or the same issue everywhere. And it doesn’t mean that it’s intentional, either. We have a first time head coach who was not a great recruiter going into the role, so nothing here is particularly surprising.
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So basically we would be ranked top 3 right now if we had the recruiting staff at USF given macho’s take.
While it may not be bs it sure doesn’t pan out considering we’re sitting better than teams that won more games than us with no staff turnover.
So somewhere in between is anyone’s guess.
But if I am a coach and a um fan I would address the staff if I had issues instead of posting it on here.
Saying manny is a poor recruiter isn’t panning out this cycle if you look at this class. Also, Manny isn’t a big name in cfb. He isn’t Kirby with Bama natty’s to his name. But he isn’t stupid either and if his position coaches are making local coaches feel unwanted it should absolutely be addressed.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I think that what he is saying is that it doesn't cost much, or take a lot of time, to call, write, or text. Especially since these kids are one area code away. Same time zone. Same interstate.

You mention "recruiting budget". Sure, we may not have Saban's chopper. But the work that is done 3 years out is usually the low-paid staff and interns who set up the communication. And I do think it is a good investment to hit the SoFla kids early.

Some people mention (and @caneinorlando is very frequent with it) that Butch was probably our last dominant scout/identifier/recruiter/developer of great talent. Well, he and Pete had old-fashioned 5x7 notecards on all of the SoFla talent YEARS in advance. I don't care what it takes, costs, or involves, we have to get on SoFla talent early and often, no matter how much competition the SEC (and Clemson) are going to throw at us.
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Butch had a very open, friendly and engaging personality the one time I met him. And he was already on the Cowboy staff at that point. He was someone you could immediately like.

He didn't know me, I wasn't anybody important. But he was open and down-to-earth.

I'm sure his good people skills translated into excellent ability to recruit. (And he probably had good evaluation skills, which he might have learned from Jimmy, who I've been told had uncanny and unique ability to project a prospect's future success as a player.)

Don't misunderestimate the importance of people skills in any field.

I suspect there might be coaches who are football nerds who know X's and O"s but are are very introverted and might not be able to sell recruits and parents.

I have no idea what's going on with our staff, though.

Interesting to hear Coach Macho"s experience. That"s why I think this a more valuable thread than some others do (,who want it locked.)
 
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caneinorlando said:
Insanity is the norm on CIS....Lol at the World passed Butch by...
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I suspect Butch was superb at evaluations.

Back in the '80's, my favorite football journalist was Sally Jenkins of the Washington Post. (Daughter of the great football writer, Dan Jenkins, I think the author of Semi-Tough, made into a movie).

Sally LOVED the Cane's of the late '80's. I had a conversation with her just before our 1990 Sugar Bowl. She told me that Jimmy had this ability to even look at a kid's parents and have an idea as to the prospect's ability to succeed as a player. He could predict how a kid could develop physically as a player. Jimmy also understood the importance of development of a prospect instead of just recruiting an elite HS player and expecting him to remain elite throughout college.

I suspect Butch learned all of this from Jimmy who probably was a genius (or close to it) as a coach. I have a feeling Butch had even better people skills that he employed to great success in recruiting.

We've had some extraordinary coaches in the program-- unfortunately they were bound to move out and up.
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
If housing costs (or other BS unrelated to the program) are what the lunch conversation is instead of mingling with coaches, you are 100% right. But what if the coaches are discussing things related to the program... Progress with the current recruits? Sharing information they may have learned in the morning? Discussions regarding current players unrelated to recruiting?

I would tend to agree that if you have HS coaches already in attendance, it's an efficient use of your staff's time to build those relationships face to face in that moment. But it is still a question of how you spend that time. That's all I'm saying.
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Maybe the UM coaches were treating the lunch only with one another as a working lunch. It might have been an opportunity for them to have a meeting mid-day.
 
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SayWhat said:
Scheme is part of recruiting as your recruit for a scheme.

He caught lightening in a bottle and then the gane passed him by drastically changing with camps and the internet.
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This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. He got in trouble at North Carolina BECAUSE HE HAD A TEAM THAT WAS LOADED WITH TALENT. He had a team full of amazing players who were being courted by agents down in Miami Beach, and a couple of them were stupid enough to tweet about it. THAT is why North Carolina had to suspend 20% of its team to open the season.

Butch went 2-for-2 "catching lightning in a bottle" at Power 5 schools. That's a pretty god**** good record by any definition. The "game" has not passed him by, even if certain ADs won't give him an interview.
 
TheToadSage said:
Why? You don't really believe this do you? Macho loyalty is DB first, he is trying to save face. Macho is also the same guy that praised Diaz for his stunts in Orlando and how Diaz had a beer with all the coaches. Now Diaz can't recruit and is distant from high school coaches? I'm not buying it.
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Please stop with the BS. WHERE did Macho say that DIAZ "can't recruit"? He talked about some of the UM assistant coaches not spending more time with the HS assistant coaches.

Too many people are putting too many words into Macho's mouth that he didn't say.
 
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TheToadSage said:
You are nitpicking if you believe being ****** recruiters and can't recruit is truly different. Can we do better? Of course, everyone could do better. I'm not going to attack the man or anyone on this board for that matter. It's the internet, but I'm pleased with this class and what this staff is doing so far. I also expect better results on the field which will lead to better results off the field.
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Why do you expect this? The Gaytors won 10 games last year and are struggling with high-end recruits.

The point that Macho made is simple. If you do a bit more work to build relationships with assistant coaches and family members, it might lead to better results in recruiting, particularly when other top programs (SEC & Clemson) and even lesser programs (UCF) are making the effort to build relationships.

It would be a wonderful world if everything was as simple as "win and they will come". But that's not true. Richt won 10 and struggled in recruiting last year, especially when he lost a few. The Gaytors won 10 and they are struggling in recruiting. And, no, I don't want to hear "oh, but you have to win 10 multiple times". If that's the case, then we are never going to get things turned around. You need talent to win games, and you need to win games to get talent, but you also need recruits to have a little bit of faith on where you are taking the program, otherwise you will never improve.

I would like to see Miami get on SoFla kids earlier in the process. I would like to see Miami assistants making a greater effort in relationship building, even if those relationships have been TERRIBLE in the past, I do not want to surrender before we have made an effort to turn things around.

Very simple.

NONE OF THAT is "Diaz can't recruit" or "we have ****** recruiters".
 
A lot of perception is built on short memories. Just even throwing auburn in there like they are some kind of goliath is funny. Miami and Auburn have garnered comparable success since 2000. But since the up and down chit chow at Auburn produced a championship in recent memory people act like they are some top football program year in year out. Since their title in 2010 they are 64-41 while Miami is 62-40. Since our title in 2001 Miami is 161-79 and Auburn is 166-80.

We aren't producing on field results like we should/expect, but outside of 4 or 5 shchools across the nation a lot of these schools are not consistent and are subject to the same and even worse seasons than Miami has had in 50 years. But its always a narrative that miami cant win or sucks....
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Why do you expect this? The Gaytors won 10 games last year and are struggling with high-end recruits.

The point that Macho made is simple. If you do a bit more work to build relationships with assistant coaches and family members, it might lead to better results in recruiting, particularly when other top programs (SEC & Clemson) and even lesser programs (UCF) are making the effort to build relationships.

It would be a wonderful world if everything was as simple as "win and they will come". But that's not true. Richt won 10 and struggled in recruiting last year, especially when he lost a few. The Gaytors won 10 and they are struggling in recruiting. And, no, I don't want to hear "oh, but you have to win 10 multiple times". If that's the case, then we are never going to get things turned around. You need talent to win games, and you need to win games to get talent, but you also need recruits to have a little bit of faith on where you are taking the program, otherwise you will never improve.

I would like to see Miami get on SoFla kids earlier in the process. I would like to see Miami assistants making a greater effort in relationship building, even if those relationships have been TERRIBLE in the past, I do not want to surrender before we have made an effort to turn things around.

Very simple.

NONE OF THAT is "Diaz can't recruit" or "we have ****** recruiters".
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Yet, he was praising the staff in Orlando for how they treated all the HS coaches. All of a sudden, we stop doing that? I don't buy it. Dabo is the perfect example of how winning consecutively improves recruiting. He grabs a player here and there to build the roster then begins winning the games he should as we should do... it turned into a recruiting juggernaut. Of course, it's not as simple as winning 10 games. It's a basis, but you continually make it to the ACCCG and it makes a difference. Our staff was considered completely out of it with Rivers and William's, landed both. Most ppl expected us out of it with Walker and now we lead. I don't buy the story, It was late when I read it and I don't have time to find the quote where he said we had ****** recruiters. If I'm mistaken and it wasn't him then I apologize, but I still don't buy the story.
 
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