forums

Kirk transfers back

LUcanesfan said:
I think with Angel coming aboard (if he gets his waiver) and Kirk returning make us a NIT team, at least... If Coach L can lead this team into the NCAA tourney, double that man's salary.
Click to expand...

I rather lose in the play in game than win the NIT. NIT is garbage. But I get what you are saying.
 
Advertisement
BWCD said:
There are 2 ends of the floor. Adams was effective on defense when healthy earlier in his career, so it will be up to Coach L to see if he needs more D or more scoring. If Brown/Rodriguez can supply some offensive pop, then Adams can start. I also think Brown will be at the 2 and Adams would be at the 3 if they're both in the starting lineup.

I think Adams starts early on, then if Burnett develops as expected, he might push Adams to a sixth man role, which is a spot I think he would thrive in.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is much of a difference between the 2 and 3 in L's system, it's just who they guard on the other end. Adams would be the other "backcourt" wing because he has better ballhandling skills than Brown and could contribute some in that area.

I don't think anyone has an automatic anything on this team (since we return exactly zero starters), but based on L's tendencies and what we know about Adams, I think he starts pretty easily. He played pretty well in our loss at West Virginia (he was the only one, in fact) in 2011 and that was the last game he was healthy. The staff felt that they rushed him back that year and that his knee was never right, which is why they were so cautious with him last year after the second surgery even though word was that he was outstanding in practice. I think you almost have to discount everything Adams did that year after he got hurt and try to project a normal progression from his sophomore year - keep in mind the kind of leaps that we saw Gamble and DQJ make, and try to project Adams making similar leaps over the course of two years.

Regarding Burnett as "not a normal freshman", a very sizeable portion of players prep nowadays and enter college basketball at age 19. That doesn't make him special in any way (though he is noted to be strong and physically mature, which will help him right away). I think his "microwave" offense off the bench would be looked at favorably, but you're right, Adams' versatility could also help a lot in that area as well. I'd also note that Adams' was not a Haith scrub/backup plan like some of the other players we're concerned about have been - he was a top 150 player out of HS (even top 100, according to ESPN), so hopefully healthy and with coaching, he can contribute like one his senior year.

(That being said, I suspect this is all moot and Rodriguez won't get his waiver, but I've been wrong before.)
 
Consigliere said:
If he averages the numbers in his 2010-2011 season or can replace the TMJ production, I would be very happy.
Click to expand...

Just for comparison's sake, so people know what we're talking about here:

TMJ (SR, 2012-12): 36 G, 30.3 MPG,.413 FG%, .393 3PT%, .851 FT%, 9.2 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 1.6 APG, 0.8 SPG
Adams (JR, 2011-12): 19 G, 16.8 MPG, .397 FG%, .340 3PT%, .550 FT%, 4.5 PPG, 2.1 RPG, .9 APG, 0.6 SPG
Adams (SO, 2010-11): 36 G, 28.2 MPG, .388 FG%, .307 3PT%, .680 FT%, 7.3 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.0 SPG

I don't see any reason why, assuming better health and continued improvement in percentages, efficiencies, etc., he shouldn't be able to replace or even improve TMJ's production.

Also, just for fun, here is Julian Gamble's production (which needs replacing) next to what Kirk did the last couple of years. They play different styles, but we were all thrilled with what we got from Julian (maybe more so because we loved him and his story), but his production is reasonable to replace as well.

Gamble (SR, 2012-13): 36 G, 20.1 MPG, .576 FG%, N/A 3PT%, .481 FT%, 6.5 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 1.8 BPG
Kirk (JR, 2012-13): 31 G, 25.5 MPG, .491 FG%, .387 3PT%, .706 FT%, 6.2 PPG, 3.9 RPG, 1.6 BPG

I'll also note that Kirk's 3PT and FT% were actually better than Kadji's last year.

So, I don't think EITHER of these guys has a huge bar to clear to be useful players, as long as they work hard on both ends and grow.
 
Last edited:
joshdacane said:
I don't think anyone has an automatic anything on this team (since we return exactly zero starters), but based on L's tendencies and what we know about Adams, I think he starts pretty easily. He played pretty well in our loss at West Virginia (he was the only one, in fact) in 2011 and that was the last game he was healthy. The staff felt that they rushed him back that year and that his knee was never right, which is why they were so cautious with him last year after the second surgery even though word was that he was outstanding in practice. I think you almost have to discount everything Adams did that year after he got hurt and try to project a normal progression from his sophomore year - keep in mind the kind of leaps that we saw Gamble and DQJ make, and try to project Adams making similar leaps over the course of two years.

Regarding Burnett as "not a normal freshman", a very sizeable portion of players prep nowadays and enter college basketball at age 19. That doesn't make him special in any way (though he is noted to be strong and physically mature, which will help him right away). I think his "microwave" offense off the bench would be looked at favorably, but you're right, Adams' versatility could also help a lot in that area as well. I'd also note that Adams' was not a Haith scrub/backup plan like some of the other players we're concerned about have been - he was a top 150 player out of HS (even top 100, according to ESPN), so hopefully healthy and with coaching, he can contribute like one his senior year.

(That being said, I suspect this is all moot and Rodriguez won't get his waiver, but I've been wrong before.)
Click to expand...

A few things...

1. Adams hasn't done much during his tenure, this is a fact. You can pick out one game and say this is what he is capable of but he is an unknown, just like Burnett is an unknown. Then throw in the fact he had two injuries, we don't know what we are getting into so expectations should be reserved IMO.

2. Burnett is NOT A NORMAL FRESHMAN. Why some kids go PREP, it definitely is not the norm. It also is not the norm to be a 2012 Parade All-American, one of only two players from the state of Florida and one of five Atlantic Coast Conference recruits to earn the honor. This kid was a scorer in HS, he averaged over 35PPG his senior year and the 4th leading scorer in the nation. In addition, he was a top 150 player as well. Now you are looking for a scorer or "instant offense" it would appear that Burnett would be it, since he is known to score the basketball. The fact that Burnett was an All-American and top 150 player is meaningless though once he steps on the court at Miami, just like it is meaningless with Adams.

3. Like I already said, there are no guaranteed starters (which is scary). Gamble's leap in production or DQJ has nothing to do with Adams. Sure, it can show that a player under coach L can be developed. But perhaps, Burnett can be developed too. Anyone can be developed, since this argument holds true for anyone on the team, I don't think it applies to Adams anymore than Burnett. Both players are going to be competing for burn at a similar position if Rodriguez gets the waiver.

I never understand waivers, so I have no idea what will happen. I couldn't venture an educated guess, I just know we need Rodriguez this year.
 
Advertisement
joshdacane said:
Consigliere said:
If he averages the numbers in his 2010-2011 season or can replace the TMJ production, I would be very happy.
Click to expand...

Just for comparison's sake, so people know what we're talking about here:

TMJ (SR, 2012-12): 36 G, 30.3 MPG,.413 FG%, .393 3PT%, .851 FT%, 9.2 PPG, 3.4 RPG, 1.6 APG, 0.8 SPG
Adams (JR, 2011-12): 19 G, 16.8 MPG, .397 FG%, .340 3PT%, .550 FT%, 4.5 PPG, 2.1 RPG, .9 APG, 0.6 SPG
Adams (SO, 2010-11): 36 G, 28.2 MPG, .388 FG%, .307 3PT%, .680 FT%, 7.3 PPG, 3.7 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.0 SPG

I don't see any reason why, assuming better health and continued improvement in percentages, efficiencies, etc., he shouldn't be able to replace or even improve TMJ's production.
Click to expand...

I think TMJ was a better athlete and shooter, I don't believe Adams can replicate last years numbers from TMJ.
 
The one thing in Adams' favor is how Coach L spoke about him towards the end of the season. He said that he was uncoverable in practice. Without those words, I would agree w/ Consigliere, but given what Coach L has said, I am expecting him to make a MAJOR impact next year.
 
Consigliere said:
A few things...

1. Adams hasn't done much during his tenure, this is a fact. You can pick out one game and say this is what he is capable of but he is an unknown, just like Burnett is an unknown. Then throw in the fact he had two injuries, we don't know what we are getting into so expectations should be reserved IMO.

2. Burnett is NOT A NORMAL FRESHMAN. Why some kids go PREP, it definitely is not the norm. It also is not the norm to be a 2012 Parade All-American, one of only two players from the state of Florida and one of five Atlantic Coast Conference recruits to earn the honor. This kid was a scorer in HS, he averaged over 35PPG his senior year and the 4th leading scorer in the nation. In addition, he was a top 150 player as well. Now you are looking for a scorer or "instant offense" it would appear that Burnett would be it, since he is known to score the basketball. The fact that Burnett was an All-American and top 150 player is meaningless though once he steps on the court at Miami, just like it is meaningless with Adams.

3. Like I already said, there are no guaranteed starters (which is scary). Gamble's leap in production or DQJ has nothing to do with Adams. Sure, it can show that a player under coach L can be developed. But perhaps, Burnett can be developed too. Anyone can be developed, since this argument holds true for anyone on the team, I don't think it applies to Adams anymore than Burnett. Both players are going to be competing for burn at a similar position if Rodriguez gets the waiver.

I never understand waivers, so I have no idea what will happen. I couldn't venture an educated guess, I just know we need Rodriguez this year.
Click to expand...

1. Agreed. Adams hasn't done much, but I am saying that he has shown flashes and has something resembling a recruiting pedigree. It would be surprising if he is a superstar for us, but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say that as a fifth-year senior who will be in his third year in the system, he will be the coaches’ first choice to start if he’s healthy.

2. I’m going to disagree with you on this. Many kids prep for various reasons – more exposure, better competition, grades, chosen school can’t fit them in after they graduate from high school, etc. It’s not a majority but we’ve seen it plenty with other recruits we’ve been involved with as well. Whether they spend four years or five years in high school does not predetermine the quality of basketball player that they are when they enter college and what they have to adjust to. Burnett is very talented, but in no way is he “unusual” whether his path or the timing of his commitment was. That being said, I do agree with you – accolades have nothing to how a player performs on the court once he gets here.

3. I think the argument holds true a bit more for Adams, who will be in his fifth-year in the program and third year under Coach L, simply because he has played under this staff for longer and practiced with the team almost all of last year, even though he was a redshirt. The point of mentioning those two is that they were players many had written off, and they ended up rapidly improving and becoming very useful players in their last year. I certainly hope that we continue to develop players and that they improve before, during, and after this season.

None of this is meant to diminish Burnett, just to realign expectations for him and to explain why some of us have not written off Adams yet either.
 
Advertisement
joshdacane said:
Consigliere said:
A few things...

1. Adams hasn't done much during his tenure, this is a fact. You can pick out one game and say this is what he is capable of but he is an unknown, just like Burnett is an unknown. Then throw in the fact he had two injuries, we don't know what we are getting into so expectations should be reserved IMO.

2. Burnett is NOT A NORMAL FRESHMAN. Why some kids go PREP, it definitely is not the norm. It also is not the norm to be a 2012 Parade All-American, one of only two players from the state of Florida and one of five Atlantic Coast Conference recruits to earn the honor. This kid was a scorer in HS, he averaged over 35PPG his senior year and the 4th leading scorer in the nation. In addition, he was a top 150 player as well. Now you are looking for a scorer or "instant offense" it would appear that Burnett would be it, since he is known to score the basketball. The fact that Burnett was an All-American and top 150 player is meaningless though once he steps on the court at Miami, just like it is meaningless with Adams.

3. Like I already said, there are no guaranteed starters (which is scary). Gamble's leap in production or DQJ has nothing to do with Adams. Sure, it can show that a player under coach L can be developed. But perhaps, Burnett can be developed too. Anyone can be developed, since this argument holds true for anyone on the team, I don't think it applies to Adams anymore than Burnett. Both players are going to be competing for burn at a similar position if Rodriguez gets the waiver.

I never understand waivers, so I have no idea what will happen. I couldn't venture an educated guess, I just know we need Rodriguez this year.
Click to expand...

1. Agreed. Adams hasn't done much, but I am saying that he has shown flashes and has something resembling a recruiting pedigree. It would be surprising if he is a superstar for us, but I don’t think it is unreasonable to say that as a fifth-year senior who will be in his third year in the system, he will be the coaches’ first choice to start if he’s healthy.

2. I’m going to disagree with you on this. Many kids prep for various reasons – more exposure, better competition, grades, chosen school can’t fit them in after they graduate from high school, etc. It’s not a majority but we’ve seen it plenty with other recruits we’ve been involved with as well. Whether they spend four years or five years in high school does not predetermine the quality of basketball player that they are when they enter college and what they have to adjust to. Burnett is very talented, but in no way is he “unusual” whether his path or the timing of his commitment was. That being said, I do agree with you – accolades have nothing to how a player performs on the court once he gets here.

3. I think the argument holds true a bit more for Adams, who will be in his fifth-year in the program and third year under Coach L, simply because he has played under this staff for longer and practiced with the team almost all of last year, even though he was a redshirt. The point of mentioning those two is that they were players many had written off, and they ended up rapidly improving and becoming very useful players in their last year. I certainly hope that we continue to develop players and that they improve before, during, and after this season.

None of this is meant to diminish Burnett, just to realign expectations for him and to explain why some of us have not written off Adams yet either.
Click to expand...

1. He has the leg up, that is all. He was injured during that time too.

2. Still the majority of kids don't Prep. That is my point. "Many" (like you state above) could mean anything, the majority of them don't prep. That is what I am saying. Don't quote me for using the word "unusual" also, I said it was "not normal." Normal for basketball is going to college after a senior year of HS. When I said "not normal" I also meant that he had an extra year to mature, hence not a normal freshman entering college.

While 1 year is not much, it is something. He is older and more mature than the average freshman, that is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

3. Sure the argument holds more true for Adams since he is here but Akpajori has been here for the same time, as has Swoope. The best player will play, that is my point. FYI...Nobody, could have predicted the success for Gamble especially coming off a second knee injury.

4. I agree on the expectations.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top