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Josh Gattis (before its deleted)

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Science said:
Josh Gattis is still here and the Doomsday Clock has move to 90 seconds before midnight, the closest it's ever been.

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mossmadness said:
The problem with those rankings is they don’t put anything in context.

Turnovers?
Field position?
Quality of defenses played?

I start on my own 1 yard line and drive 50 yards and punt against the best defense in college football.

I start on the other team’s 15 yard mine this is to a turnover, and get a FG against the worst defense in college football.

What was the better quality offensive position?
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Right, NOW you want to do a deep-dive...you didn't give a **** when you were posting the "less favorable" rankings.

You know, if our secondary had a few more conversations, we wouldn't have lost to MTSU.

Over a 14 game schedule, "turnover" and "field position" don't matter. If your "points scored" ranking is higher than your "yardage" ranking, good for you. And bad for the teams that racked up all that yardage and couldn't score as much.

Last season, I would have liked Miami to score more points. "Hey, guess what kids, Miami had 392 total yards to Texas A&M's 264 total yards!"
 
01Canes said:
Funny seeing you accuse anyone else of ‘f***ing up their dates and facts’ when you egregiously alleged earlier in this very thread that Justin Herbert didn’t play as a freshman.

Arroyo was minimally or partially responsible but Willie Taggart was Oregon’s playcaller in 2017 and it was Taggart’s offensive system. The first game in which Arroyo called plays was the Las Vegas Bowl after Taggart left for FSU.

Per OregonLive.com from August 2018:

“After a disastrous performance in Arroyo's UO play-calling debut in December's Las Vegas Bowl, his imprint on the offense remains to be seen.”

As far as the effectiveness of Oregon’s run game and their run/pass ratio, I have zero issues with either of those things. I actually agree with you. Using your great OL and effective RB’s to attack atrocious PAC-12 defenses and have a balanced attack? That’s smart.

My issues with Arroyo are similar to the issues I had with Gattis and they’re rooted in the severe limitations of their respective passing game philosophies/play designs.

In Herbert’s senior year with a future top 5 LT and a great overall OL, Arroyo called plays like he had Malik Rosier at QB and nothing but turnstiles across his entire offensive line. 23% of Oregon’s passing plays were screens and 21% of Herbert’s passing yards that season came on screens. Herbert’s 8.8 ADOT ranked 73rd in the country.

Their season opening loss to Auburn that year is a prime example of why I want nothing to do with Arroyo. They had a senior Justin Herbert while Auburn had a true freshman Bo Nix and it was Arroyo calling his offense like his QB was the one who needed training wheels.
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😮‍💨u cookin
 
This a nice debate, at least it’s something to look forward to in this thread. Thank you
 
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mossmadness said:
The problem with those rankings is they don’t put anything in context.

Turnovers?
Field position?
Quality of defenses played?

I start on my own 1 yard line and drive 50 yards and punt against the best defense in college football.

I start on the other team’s 15 yard mine this is to a turnover, and get a FG against the worst defense in college football.

What was the better quality offensive position?
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Those rankings still give you a great idea how good or bad you are. Sample size is too big. If you’re averaging 40+ a game, I think it’s safe to say you’re pretty good on Offense. Stop.
 
Mackmiller974 said:
He's not as bad as he's made out to be be, he's a QB coach by trait. The goal is to get someone better but if this buyout thing with Gattis is legit, maybe he's a cheap quick fix that comes here cheap on UNLV Dollar.
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I get what you are saying but if the Gattis financial situation has any bearing on who Mario hires as his next OC then we aren't as serious about this as we were told.
 
Miami[]_[]Smoke said:
You literally said “**** off with all that yardage NONSENSE”… if that’s not dismissive, I don’t know what is. No one said anything similar like they dont care about points. And your sample size is Oregon over a couple years. I’m talking about the correlation of yds and points over the entirety of college football in years They keep relevant stats and you can even include the nfl in there. And it’s not just a rough correlation that can be ignored, it’s a significant correlation.
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Do you read what you write? Seriously?

I didn't say yardage doesn't exist, I'm saying it's not the relevant factor. And the dismissiveness is because I know the agenda/narrative that is being pushed.

If someone says "yes, you are right, the scoring ranking is higher", then I say nothing. But this constant drumbeat that Oregon's offense "was in the 40s" is the issue. Again, nobody has disputed the stat, the problem is with how stats are being selectively used as weapons.

As usual, you are being dishonest. We are trying to discuss a 3-year period (in "turnovers" and "field position" equal out), and you choose to bring up "the entirety of college football in years".

Whatever. For 14 straight games, Oregon kept getting lucky with "turnovers" and "field position". All the drives were only 20 yards. Whatever it takes to push your narrative.
 
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hurricaneman said:
Not specifically directed at you, but how was this not caught by Mario before he was hired? It seems a lot of people who are plugged in around college football knew about Gattis' problems. I would imagine it wasn't a secret in the coaching circles.

We were told that Mario's process is long and detailed but it would seem it either isn't detailed or Mario knew all that and hired him anyway. I don't know what's worse.
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Gattis is like remember that painful interview process….right back at you on the way out…
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Do you read what you write? Seriously?

I didn't say yardage doesn't exist, I'm saying it's not the relevant factor. And the dismissiveness is because I know the agenda/narrative that is being pushed.

If someone says "yes, you are right, the scoring ranking is higher", then I say nothing. But this constant drumbeat that Oregon's offense "was in the 40s" is the issue. Again, nobody has disputed the stat, the problem is with how stats are being selectively used as weapons.

As usual, you are being dishonest. We are trying to discuss a 3-year period (in "turnovers" and "field position" equal out), and you choose to bring up "the entirety of college football in years".

Whatever. For 14 straight games, Oregon kept getting lucky with "turnovers" and "field position". All the drives were only 20 yards. Whatever it takes to push your narrative.
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A3EAEA06-86F8-49D8-A95C-F3893611480F.jpeg

I find it hilarious how you say something unequivocally without any room for interpretation, then i merely mention that yds are highly correlated with pts, and you spend 4 paragraphs trying to explain that you didn’t actually say that, even after you supposedly said it a “million” times…
 
TRick72 said:
Odds a really savvy negotiator can get them to trade him straight up for a former Broyles award winner?? I mean they are the Lions
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Throw in a Wide Receiver and they would probably go for it. Afterall, they did draft wide receivers with their first draft pick like 4 years in a row at one time! LOL
 
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01Canes said:
Funny seeing you accuse anyone else of ‘f***ing up their dates and facts’ when you egregiously alleged earlier in this very thread that Justin Herbert didn’t play as a freshman.

Arroyo was minimally or partially responsible but Willie Taggart was Oregon’s playcaller in 2017 and it was Taggart’s offensive system. The first game in which Arroyo called plays was the Las Vegas Bowl after Taggart left for FSU.

Per OregonLive.com from August 2018:

“After a disastrous performance in Arroyo's UO play-calling debut in December's Las Vegas Bowl, his imprint on the offense remains to be seen.”

As far as the effectiveness of Oregon’s run game and their run/pass ratio, I have zero issues with either of those things. I actually agree with you. Using your great OL and effective RB’s to attack atrocious PAC-12 defenses and have a balanced attack? That’s smart.

My issues with Arroyo are similar to the issues I had with Gattis and they’re rooted in the severe limitations of their respective passing game philosophies/play designs.

In Herbert’s senior year with a future top 5 LT and a great overall OL, Arroyo called plays like he had Malik Rosier at QB and nothing but turnstiles across his entire offensive line. 23% of Oregon’s passing plays were screens and 21% of Herbert’s passing yards that season came on screens. Herbert’s 8.8 ADOT ranked 73rd in the country.

Their season opening loss to Auburn that year is a prime example of why I want nothing to do with Arroyo. They had a senior Justin Herbert while Auburn had a true freshman Bo Nix and it was Arroyo calling his offense like his QB was the one who needed training wheels.
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Hilarious. I didn't accuse anyone of anything. I asked what he was referring to because it made the comparison difficult to analyze and discuss. I mistakenly thought Herbert had a redshirt year and I went back and fixed it as soon as I realized it.

As for the rest of your nonsense, it doesn't even matter. You are whining about a percentage of passing plays being screens, when "short-passing" has become a big trend in both college and the NFL. Great DLs, QB injuries, and shifty WRs have shifted the passing game more in the direction of short passes rather than downfield throws.

Screenshot 2023-01-24 121804.jpg


Herbert got injured while playing under Taggart's system. And let's not act as if Herbert had great WRs, from the 2014 season until now, Oregon has had exactly ONE wide receiver drafted, a 7th rounder (Dillon Mitchell in 2019).

Arroyo's offense may have involved shorter routes, but Herbert didn't miss any games and was the #6 overall pick with immediate "rookie of the year" success in the NFL. So maybe Arroyo's approach prepared Herbert for the NFL, while at the SAME TIME winning more games. What's the problem?

Points were scored.
Games were won.
Guys got drafted high.

Win win win.
 
Miami[]_[]Smoke said:
View attachment 226289
I find it hilarious how you say something unequivocally without any room for interpretation, then i merely mention that yds are highly correlated with pts, and you spend 4 paragraphs trying to explain that you didn’t actually say that, even after you supposedly said it a “million” times…
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So first you quoted it, now you sreenshotted it?

You're special.

And I didn't deny I said it, I had a problem with your characterization. Like I said, the yardage stat exists. And there IS a rough correlation. But points is the only stat that matters.

Unless we are going to get a retroactive win against Texas A&M for out-yardaging them.

Hey, we actually went 7-5 last year "by total offense". And the Duke game was MUCH closer...
 
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SA Cane said:
The question that has to be asked.

Why did Mario hire him?
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Panicked ... was early February and Jason Candle said "no" after they thought it was a done deal. Needed an OC for Spring Practice ... and simply hired the "Broyles Award Winner".
 
rsa coral gables said:
you are correct.
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What are his damages if he is paid the full amount owed under his contract? The only way I could see this going to litigation is if either (1) UM fires him for cause for something he allegedly did that is unrelated to his crappy job performance and does not pay him the remainder of the payments due under his contract or (2) there is some dispute over what he is owed based on offset provisions or some ambiguity in the contract. But if there is indeed a hold up related to his contract, I would hope the delay is because UM is doing the right thing and ensuring there is an agreement in place around his leaving that includes him agreeing to the amount owed and releasing any claims he could have against UM.
 
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