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Jon Rothstein at Miami

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JZCane0825 said:
Went back and forth on this but ultimately like having Bensley in the starting lineup and having Pack play off the ball. We're smaller in the backcourt but Wooga is more of a natural 3 and this allows us to come off the bench with length via Watson/Casey/Nwoko/George.
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Opens up more chances for Pack to shoot too.
 
AmherstCane said:
Casey was ranked 60th on the ESPN 100 and he showed out in France. He has all the tools… you’re right that he has to show it in league play, but I’m betting/hoping/expecting that will happen.
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I don't put a lot of credence in that ESPN 100 list. I'd much rather recruit players on the list than off but it's hardly any sort of guarantee of success. Earl Timberlake was #37 and DeQuan Jones even higher at #28. One had no career here, the other -- very average production.

I'll wait to see Casey's play this season before I say "he has all the tools," Looking at his high school game and what he showed here last year, he hasn't shown much of a shooting tool yet. Fingers crossed for a breakout season.
 
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hotshot said:
I don't put a lot of credence in that ESPN 100 list. I'd much rather recruit players on the list than off but it's hardly any sort of guarantee of success. Earl Timberlake was #37 and DeQuan Jones even higher at #28. One had no career here, the other -- very average production.

I'll wait to see Casey's play this season before I say "he has all the tools," Looking at his high school game and what he showed here last year, he hasn't shown much of a shooting tool yet. Fingers crossed for a breakout season.
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Timberlake got hurt and then transferred because the medical staff blew it. Coaches didn’t want him to leave and I think still believed he could have/would have developed into a good player here.

DeQuan made a NBA roster and I believe would have been a much different player and had a much different (more successful) career in college if Haith hadn’t just let him do whatever he wanted his first two years and cemented bad habits.

Personally I think DQJ could have been a great college player if he focused on defense and rebounding and then had any *good* college coach help him develop an offensive game that fit his skills.

Funny thing is many on this board were all over Wooga his freshman year (and not in a good way).

I think Casey is gonna be the next in the long line of guys who have developed into really good/great players under L.
 
AmherstCane said:
Timberlake got hurt and then transferred because the medical staff blew it. Coaches didn’t want him to leave and I think still believed he could have/would have developed into a good player here.

DeQuan made a NBA roster and I believe would have been a much different player and had a much different (more successful) career in college if Haith hadn’t just let him do whatever he wanted his first two years and cemented bad habits.

Personally I think DQJ could have been a great college player if he focused on defense and rebounding and then had any *good* college coach help him develop an offensive game that fit his skills.

Funny thing is many on this board were all over Wooga his freshman year (and not in a good way).

I think Casey is gonna be the next in the long line of guys who have developed into really good/great players under L.
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We'll see.

Timberlake had little success at Memphis after he left here. He's done better at Bryant University, a small school up in Rhode Island. Even before his injury, that flat jump shot (no arc whatsoever) wasn't gonna go in with any regularity.

My point was that if those lists really meant much, you wouldn't expect the #28 and #37 HS players in the country to arrive as such developmental offensive projects. (Especially in this day and age where the 3 pt shot is king.) My problem is with the lists, not the players.
 
JZCane0825 said:
Went back and forth on this but ultimately like having Bensley in the starting lineup and having Pack play off the ball. We're smaller in the backcourt but Wooga is more of a natural 3 and this allows us to come off the bench with length via Watson/Casey/Nwoko/George.
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I think we will also see Wooga slide over to point at times during the game when L wants to go a little bigger. So we probably don’t have a true PG next year but Pack and Bensley will both play the spot, with Wooga in certain situations.
 
hotshot said:
We'll see.

Timberlake had little success at Memphis after he left here. He's done better at Bryant University, a small school up in Rhode Island. Even before his injury, that flat jump shot (no arc whatsoever) wasn't gonna go in with any regularity.

My point was that if those lists really meant much, you wouldn't expect the #28 and #37 HS players in the country to arrive as such developmental offensive projects. (Especially in this day and age where the 3 pt shot is king.) My problem is with the lists, not the players.
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No I get it. I just think L’s track record with top 100-150 recruits who stay in the program is pretty incredible. Other than Jakai (who’s story is not yet written), I think every top 100-150 recruit who L signed and finished at Miami has gone on to play basketball for a pay check somewhere after Miami.

If Wooga actually is a first round draft pick that’s just another incredible development feather in L’s cap (not taking anything away from the players but coaching and development matter SO much).
 
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AtlAtty said:
I think we will also see Wooga slide over to point at times during the game when L wants to go a little bigger. So we probably don’t have a true PG next year but Pack and Bensley will both play the spot, with Wooga in certain situations.
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You followed Cleveland's career in HS up in Georgia, right? And, watched him at FSU. And you've seen Wooga.

Many of us are crowning Wooga as a true emerging star in college basketball. And, not without a lot of evidence, based on the big strides he took last season.

When I watched the two, though, I really couldn't say one was superior to the other.

Poplar: 8.4 points, 3.5 rebounds, 1.5 assists in 23.5 minutes per game … Shot 47% from the floor, 37.4% beyond the arc, and 86.7% at the line.

Cleveland: 13.8 points, 7.4 rebounds and 1.8 assists in 33.6 minutes per game … Shot 44..5% from the floor, 35% beyond the arc, and 69% at the line

Cleveland played considerably more minutes a game, and isn't as good a Free Throw shooter (few are, compared to Wooga). A couple inches taller, at 6'7, he's clearly the better rebounder. Unlike Wooga, Cleveland faces a period of adjustment to a new coach and teammates. Cleveland also played for a poor team last season which can't have helped his output.

How do you see the two?
 
hotshot said:
You followed Cleveland's career in HS up in Georgia, right? And, watched him at FSU. And you've seen Wooga.

Many of us are crowning Wooga as a true emerging star in college basketball. And, not without a lot of evidence, based on the big strides he took last season.

When I watched the two, though, I really couldn't say one was superior to the other.

Poplar: 8.4 points, 3.5 rebounds, 1.5 assists in 23.5 minutes per game … Shot 47% from the floor, 37.4% beyond the arc, and 86.7% at the line.

Cleveland: 13.8 points, 7.4 rebounds and 1.8 assists in 33.6 minutes per game … Shot 44..5% from the floor, 35% beyond the arc, and 69% at the line

Cleveland played considerably more minutes a game, and isn't as good a Free Throw shooter (few are, compared to Wooga). A couple inches taller, at 6'7, he's clearly the better rebounder. Unlike Wooga, Cleveland faces a period of adjustment to a new coach and teammates. Cleveland also played for a poor team last season which can't have helped his output.

How do you see the two?
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I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment about Matt’s adjustment.

Even in high school Matt was a reluctant 3 point shooter but he was so dynamic playing passing lanes on defense and on offensive rebounds that he scored easily without having to truly find a consistent 3 point shot. But he was not an unwilling mid-range shooter. What struck me about him at FSU was that he didn’t want to take free throw line jump shots when he played at the high post against the zone. The biggest thing Matt needs, and why I loved his transfer to UM (not as a UM fan but rooting for Matt Cleveland the person), is confidence. He needs to be reminded why he was a 5 star, and it’s not just becuase he can jump. Matt is also a smart young man, courteous even when some of his high school teammates acted like jerks towards our team.
I sincerely believe Matt will be drafted, but I think he needs 2 years with Coach L and staff. Not to regain confidence but to fix the form on his jump shot.

That last sentence is why I won’t compare him right now to Wooga, who I believe will be drafted after this season. Wooga and Matt have comparable physical ability, but Wooga has picture perfect form on his jump shot. Wooga just needs more opportunities than he received last season, and he should receive them next season as our number 2/3 option depending on the game. I think Matt will score similarly to last season on fewer shots because his shooting percentage should improve and he will get some really easy looks on this team. I expect Wooga to score 14-16 per game, possibly more, but he’s ready to show the country that he is NBA ready.

Does all this make sense? I hope I was not rambling. And not that it makes a difference but I first saw Matt play at 10 years old when he and my son played on the same AAU team. He was tall, not a superior athlete at all, and a bit of a cry baby. Yes he would cry in a game when things did not go his way. But always a nice young man.
 
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AtlAtty said:
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment about Matt’s adjustment.

Even in high school Matt was a reluctant 3 point shooter but he was so dynamic playing passing lanes on defense and on offensive rebounds that he scored easily without having to truly find a consistent 3 point shot. But he was not an unwilling mid-range shooter. What struck me about him at FSU was that he didn’t want to take free throw line jump shots when he played at the high post against the zone. The biggest thing Matt needs, and why I loved his transfer to UM (not as a UM fan but rooting for Matt Cleveland the person), is confidence. He needs to be reminded why he was a 5 star, and it’s not just becuase he can jump. Matt is also a smart young man, courteous even when some of his high school teammates acted like jerks towards our team.
I sincerely believe Matt will be drafted, but I think he needs 2 years with Coach L and staff. Not to regain confidence but to fix the form on his jump shot.

That last sentence is why I won’t compare him right now to Wooga, who I believe will be drafted after this season. Wooga and Matt have comparable physical ability, but Wooga has picture perfect form on his jump shot. Wooga just needs more opportunities than he received last season, and he should receive them next season as our number 2/3 option depending on the game. I think Matt will score similarly to last season on fewer shots because his shooting percentage should improve and he will get some really easy looks on this team. I expect Wooga to score 14-16 per game, possibly more, but he’s ready to show the country that he is NBA ready.

Does all this make sense? I hope I was not rambling. And not that it makes a difference but I first saw Matt play at 10 years old when he and my son played on the same AAU team. He was tall, not a superior athlete at all, and a bit of a cry baby. Yes he would cry in a game when things did not go his way. But always a nice young man.
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Great info. I’ve heard Matt is a terrific kid from a really impressive family. We’re super lucky to have him but I also think - like you say - he and his family made a smart decision for him to come here.

Re: Wooga… nobody should be surprised if he is our leading scorer this year.
 
AtlAtty said:
I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment about Matt’s adjustment.

Even in high school Matt was a reluctant 3 point shooter but he was so dynamic playing passing lanes on defense and on offensive rebounds that he scored easily without having to truly find a consistent 3 point shot. But he was not an unwilling mid-range shooter. What struck me about him at FSU was that he didn’t want to take free throw line jump shots when he played at the high post against the zone. The biggest thing Matt needs, and why I loved his transfer to UM (not as a UM fan but rooting for Matt Cleveland the person), is confidence. He needs to be reminded why he was a 5 star, and it’s not just becuase he can jump. Matt is also a smart young man, courteous even when some of his high school teammates acted like jerks towards our team.
I sincerely believe Matt will be drafted, but I think he needs 2 years with Coach L and staff. Not to regain confidence but to fix the form on his jump shot.

That last sentence is why I won’t compare him right now to Wooga, who I believe will be drafted after this season. Wooga and Matt have comparable physical ability, but Wooga has picture perfect form on his jump shot. Wooga just needs more opportunities than he received last season, and he should receive them next season as our number 2/3 option depending on the game. I think Matt will score similarly to last season on fewer shots because his shooting percentage should improve and he will get some really easy looks on this team. I expect Wooga to score 14-16 per game, possibly more, but he’s ready to show the country that he is NBA ready.

Does all this make sense? I hope I was not rambling. And not that it makes a difference but I first saw Matt play at 10 years old when he and my son played on the same AAU team. He was tall, not a superior athlete at all, and a bit of a cry baby. Yes he would cry in a game when things did not go his way. But always a nice young man.
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Thanks for that. I knew you went back a ways watching Matt but ... 10 yrs old!!

I think we have the type of roster and Head Coach to ensure Matt can be incorporated into the team smoothly. And, as you noted, he still has plenty of upside off what he's already shown (which has been pretty darn good!).
 
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