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James Williams.....2021 banana tailpipe

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simplycanes said:
This is the kind of recruitment I will spend more time following if we get hot and are sitting at 9 or 10 wins.

Yeah, I know, "but Avantae." Great get, but he wasn't even an exception, more of an anomaly given our history.
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"But Avantae" is right up there with "he (Jon) got us Kosi".
 
Ethnicsands said:
You guys talk like kids are magically different today, all of a suddenly. Makes little seems. Wnat is different is UM has stunk for 15+ years and kids have seen other programs‘ efforts pay off. Vilma and Duke actually grew up with memories of UM being good, and miami guys all over the nfl pro bowl.

And it doesn’t ‘disrespect’ legends to compare kids to them. That happens all day, everywhere. If you think that ’disrespects‘ legends, you may have a distorted sense of respect and disrespect. It may be a poor comparison or bad idea to make these comparisons, but it ain’t because of ‘disrespect’ for guys who came earlier. To the contrary, it’s respect for them that fuels the comparison.
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You’re right, it’s not magic, kids are just different today than years ago. I’ve always been a proponent of the fact that if we win games, we’ll be in a much better position for recruits. But kids back in the day wanted to be a part of the change, wanted to play early as opposed to taking their 5-star talent to sit for a couple years before seeing the field just because that team is the “in” team. If these SoFla kids realized that if they all teamed up and consolidated their talents, they’d be unstoppable at the school they say is their “dream school” but spurn to make the “business decision”.

Reason I said it was disrespectful was because someone said that this kid had Duke’s attitude in reference to him wanting to play for his hometown despite having offers from other schools. Clearly that took a nose dive and the kid didn’t even put us in his top schools. That, to me, is disrespectful to guys like Duke.

Duke may have grown up seeing great Miami teams, but in the 5 years before duke enrolled at Miami (2007-2011), we were barely above .500 (.540) had fired Randy Shannon and just came off of a 6-6 season in the 1st year of “The Golden Era”.
 
armandose23 said:
You’re right, it’s not magic, kids are just different today than years ago. I’ve always been a proponent of the fact that if we win games, we’ll be in a much better position for recruits. But kids back in the day wanted to be a part of the change, wanted to play early as opposed to taking their 5-star talent to sit for a couple years before seeing the field just because that team is the “in” team. If these SoFla kids realized that if they all teamed up and consolidated their talents, they’d be unstoppable at the school they say is their “dream school” but spurn to make the “business decision”.

Reason I said it was disrespectful was because someone said that this kid had Duke’s attitude in reference to him wanting to play for his hometown despite having offers from other schools. Clearly that took a nose dive and the kid didn’t even put us in his top schools. That, to me, is disrespectful to guys like Duke.

Duke may have grown up seeing great Miami teams, but in the 5 years before duke enrolled at Miami (2007-2011), we were barely above .500 (.540) had fired Randy Shannon and just came off of a 6-6 season in the 1st year of “The Golden Era”.
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People have been saying ‘kids are different today’ for generations. It’s generally an unhelpful way to understand the world around you. The people who say this are almost always in denial and use this comment to obfuscate rather than illuminate. As is the case here. Instead of accepting that 17 years of pathetic lack of commitment to football by this school (and associated **** *** results) has led many local kids to reasonably conclude UM may not be their best choice and they should consider alternatives, folks claim ’kids are different today.’ Why not try the more obvious explanation, which is that circumstances are different, not kids?

And ‘play early?’ You may not understand UM history. Taylor and Rolle came to a backfield with Reed, Rumph and Buchanon. Kids didn’t come to UM to have an easy path to starting. They came to COMPETE. Which is just what you criticize them for when they go to Alabama to do that.

And maybe Duke was just an outlier, but he grew up rooting for great UM teams so he could follow his heart and childhpod dreams. Kiss today grew up watching awful teams at UM. You don’t see the difference?
 
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Ethnicsands said:
People have been saying ‘kids are different today’ for generations. It’s generally an unhelpful way to understand the world around you. The people who say this are almost always in denial and use this comment to obfuscate rather than illuminate. As is the case here. Instead of accepting that 17 years of pathetic lack of commitment to football by this school (and associated **** *** results) has led many local kids to reasonably conclude UM may not be their best choice and they should consider alternatives, folks claim ’kids are different today.’ Why not try the more obvious explanation, which is that circumstances are different, not kids?

And ‘play early?’ You may not understand UM history. Taylor and Rolle came to a backfield with Reed, Rumph and Buchanon. Kids didn’t come to UM to have an easy path to starting. They came to COMPETE. Which is just what you criticize them for when they go to Alabama to do that.

And maybe Duke was just an outlier, but he grew up rooting for great UM teams so he could follow his heart and childhpod dreams. Kiss today grew up watching awful teams at UM. You don’t see the difference?
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Listen you’re preaching to the choir. I’m 28 years old. The late 90s and early 2000s teams were the only part of UM’s glory I got to witness first hand that I actually somewhat understood what was going on. So yes I do understand UM history pretty well especially from that time. Your need to interject hypothetical situations on what I may or may not know is a pretty weak tactic, especially when what I’m arguing on is my opinion. You have yours as I do.

I don’t have a problem with kids wanting to compete. At all. So then let’s stop saying this kid is a Cane all the way like Duke was and is going to shut down everyone else for the love of his hometown. Let’s say, instead, that he has no loyalties to anyone and is going to shop around and find the best fit. Period. My problem is saying a kid is all cane only to get our hat thrown on the floor or faked out on Signing day.

Since you brought up UM history and how I may not know it very well. Let’s remember that what kicked off UM’s dominance in the 80s were kids like Alonzo Highsmith, Melvin Bratton, and Winston Moss coming together despite being told that Miami couldn’t compete at a high level. Needless to say they started the flooding of local talent to Miami and were rewarded for it as was the program.

When Clemson won their first title, Ben Boulware gave a nod to Tajh Boyd, Sammy Watkins and others for laying the foundation and starting the turning of the tides for Clemson. At some point, we have to get the top kids to come here, buy in and put us on top again. Like Jimbo recently said, “No one ever won the Kentucky Derby with a donkey”. You need the horses.
 
armandose23 said:
Listen you’re preaching to the choir. I’m 28 years old. The late 90s and early 2000s teams were the only part of UM’s glory I got to witness first hand that I actually somewhat understood what was going on. So yes I do understand UM history pretty well especially from that time. Your need to interject hypothetical situations on what I may or may not know is a pretty weak tactic, especially when what I’m arguing on is my opinion. You have yours as I do.

I don’t have a problem with kids wanting to compete. At all. So then let’s stop saying this kid is a Cane all the way like Duke was and is going to shut down everyone else for the love of his hometown. Let’s say, instead, that he has no loyalties to anyone and is going to shop around and find the best fit. Period. My problem is saying a kid is all cane only to get our hat thrown on the floor or faked out on Signing day.

Since you brought up UM history and how I may not know it very well. Let’s remember that what kicked off UM’s dominance in the 80s were kids like Alonzo Highsmith, Melvin Bratton, and Winston Moss coming together despite being told that Miami couldn’t compete at a high level. Needless to say they started the flooding of local talent to Miami and were rewarded for it as was the program.

When Clemson won their first title, Ben Boulware gave a nod to Tajh Boyd, Sammy Watkins and others for laying the foundation and starting the turning of the tides for Clemson. At some point, we have to get the top kids to come here, buy in and put us on top again. Like Jimbo recently said, “No one ever won the Kentucky Derby with a donkey”. You need the horses.
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You sound pretty jaded and jilted for a 28 year old, tbh. You can say what you want. But maybe you’re getting too invested in what other people think or say. In any case, life is rarely as extreme as some people make it out to be. Just because you don’t believe there are many kids as loyal as Duke was, doesn’t mean they’re all kids who have ‘no loyalties to anyone.’

And in case you are interested, if you want to understand UM history, go look at who Schnelly recruited in the late ‘70s To early ‘80s. Of the guys you listed, only Highsmith was relevant to our first title team. That was a different group of kids, under Schnelly. (Highsmith contributed as a true frosh.)
 
305to954 said:
you had the child prodigy generation- Kobe, Lebron and movie actors. A lot of the local recruits were local legends on the football scene but we’re not exposed like they are today.

then you had the YouTube stars- that white running who leaped over everyone in Highschool. I think ended up at a couple schools, Devin stills at QB and this goes on until this day.

now it’s a mix of everything. A 24/7 recruiting new cycle, the internet, social media, etc.

There’s no doubt that the mindset of these kids and who are around handling their recruiting has changed
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Sam McGuffie.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
You sound pretty jaded and jilted for a 28 year old, tbh. You can say what you want. But maybe you’re getting too invested in what other people think or say. In any case, life is rarely as extreme as some people make it out to be. Just because you don’t believe there are many kids as loyal as Duke was, doesn’t mean they’re all kids who have ‘no loyalties to anyone.’

And in case you are interested, if you want to understand UM history, go look at who Schnelly recruited in the late ‘70s To early ‘80s. Of the guys you listed, only Highsmith was relevant to our first title team. That was a different group of kids, under Schnelly. (Highsmith contributed as a true frosh.)
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Its not about being Jaded. I'm just tired of kids making excuses and the same old mantra of "Miami is my favorite team, I grew up a canes fan but I have to make a business decision". Like Donell Harris saying he was "All Miami" yet went somewhere else. That is literally the opposite of the argument that they didn't grow up seeing great Miami teams so they're not as connected to the team. Yet they still grew up Canes fans?

As much as I wanted Pat Surtain Jr and Tyson Campbell to come to UM, they never said they were favoring us or were "All Canes" or what not. They handled their recruitment very professionally. Even Justin Flowe, the number one player in Cali found it necessary to fake picking up the Miami hat, not his hometown USC, to then put on the Oregon hat. At what point are we going to turn the tide and land some of these big fish. I'll say I'm very happy with a lot of our current signees and seeing Avantae Williams' surprise pick go our way felt great. But we have to start making this a thing.

Now granted, I agree that we've been mediocre for the past 15 years and our schedule this past year was lackluster and we still crapped ourselves. Next year SHOULD be an easy path to the ACCCG considering our talent and our schedule. But will that be enough? Or will kids say that they don't want to go to UM because an ACCCG appearance isn't enough?
 
armandose23 said:
Its not about being Jaded. I'm just tired of kids making excuses and the same old mantra of "Miami is my favorite team, I grew up a canes fan but I have to make a business decision". Like Donell Harris saying he was "All Miami" yet went somewhere else. That is literally the opposite of the argument that they didn't grow up seeing great Miami teams so they're not as connected to the team. Yet they still grew up Canes fans?

As much as I wanted Pat Surtain Jr and Tyson Campbell to come to UM, they never said they were favoring us or were "All Canes" or what not. They handled their recruitment very professionally. Even Justin Flowe, the number one player in Cali found it necessary to fake picking up the Miami hat, not his hometown USC, to then put on the Oregon hat. At what point are we going to turn the tide and land some of these big fish. I'll say I'm very happy with a lot of our current signees and seeing Avantae Williams' surprise pick go our way felt great. But we have to start making this a thing.

Now granted, I agree that we've been mediocre for the past 15 years and our schedule this past year was lackluster and we still crapped ourselves. Next year SHOULD be an easy path to the ACCCG considering our talent and our schedule. But will that be enough? Or will kids say that they don't want to go to UM because an ACCCG appearance isn't enough?
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I don’t see it the way you do. You sound emotional over things said by kids, and in this case, over things that have not even been said, just because you imagine they will be, eventually.

Did you ever consider that many of the kids have been RIGHT when they said it was a ‘business decision’ then went elsewhere? Worked pretty well for Jeudy, Cooper, Ridley, Peterson and others.

Kids can grow up ‘fans’ because their parents were, and it’s the local team. But when your local team sucks and doesn’t even try hard for your whole life, it’s kinda hard to ignore all the other options out there out of emotional loyalty. When UM as a program shows it cares about football, maybe local kids will start caring just a bit more about UM.

And why would making one ACCCG be ‘enough’ to get every kid you fancy? Does Alabama judge it’s season with such low expectations? Does Clemson?

UM will recruit well enough when it demonstrates it is a serious program. Turnover chains and hype tweets by its HC aren’t proof of seriousness.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
I don’t see it the way you do. You sound emotional over things said by kids, and in this case, over things that have not even been said, just because you imagine they will be, eventually.

Did you ever consider that many of the kids have been RIGHT when they said it was a ‘business decision’ then went elsewhere? Worked pretty well for Jeudy, Cooper, Ridley, Peterson and others.

Kids can grow up ‘fans’ because their parents were, and it’s the local team. But when your local team sucks and doesn’t even try hard for your whole life, it’s kinda hard to ignore all the other options out there out of emotional loyalty. When UM as a program shows it cares about football, maybe local kids will start caring just a bit more about UM.

And why would making one ACCCG be ‘enough’ to get every kid you fancy? Does Alabama judge it’s season with such low expectations? Does Clemson?

UM will recruit well enough when it demonstrates it is a serious program. Turnover chains and hype tweets by its HC aren’t proof of seriousness.
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I can jump on everything you said here with the exception of getting emotional over things that have not been said yet, that I'm just imagining will be said in the future. I've been following recruiting seriously for the last 8 years approximately. I know thats not a long time compared to most of you but the fact remains that it has happened pretty much every year since I started following recruiting vigorously and a lot of times more than once case per recruiting cycle. These kids love to string on the home town team and then spurn us at the end. If the team is that bad, than just say you don't think its a good fit for you and you're not considering them and move forward.

With regards to the Cooper, Ridley's, Jeudy etc, I agree and my father and I have spoken about this ad nauseam. They made the right decisions clearly. But, Miami has been showing, much more than in the past, that its trying to be serious about the program. Manny, which I'm on a week to week basis with, made the right moves this off season. So hopefully that'll pay off.

I guess we will end up seeing it differently because I don't like the hypocrisy. And that's not just with football or these HS kids, its my position on everything. Nothing wrong with being a So Fla kid and saying you're going to weigh your options, there's just no need to play the games. If you're making a business decision and looking at things like a professional than do so and be professional about it.
 
armandose23 said:
I can jump on everything you said here with the exception of getting emotional over things that have not been said yet, that I'm just imagining will be said in the future. I've been following recruiting seriously for the last 8 years approximately. I know thats not a long time compared to most of you but the fact remains that it has happened pretty much every year since I started following recruiting vigorously and a lot of times more than once case per recruiting cycle. These kids love to string on the home town team and then spurn us at the end. If the team is that bad, than just say you don't think its a good fit for you and you're not considering them and move forward.

With regards to the Cooper, Ridley's, Jeudy etc, I agree and my father and I have spoken about this ad nauseam. They made the right decisions clearly. But, Miami has been showing, much more than in the past, that its trying to be serious about the program. Manny, which I'm on a week to week basis with, made the right moves this off season. So hopefully that'll pay off.

I guess we will end up seeing it differently because I don't like the hypocrisy. And that's not just with football or these HS kids, its my position on everything. Nothing wrong with being a So Fla kid and saying you're going to weigh your options, there's just no need to play the games. If you're making a business decision and looking at things like a professional than do so and be professional about it.
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Looking like you’re trying to be serious isn’t the same as being serious. We’ll see if Miami is actually trying to be serious. I can’t fault any kid for skepticism on that topic, at this time. Manny just finished the worst season in 40 years at UM.

What I see is you’re blaming next year’s kids for things said and done in the past, by other kids. Seems excessive. I don’t assume kids are all hypocrites. They’re teenagers trying to make the right decisions for themselves and their families. Teenagers are uncertain, fickle, and emotional. Not just Miami teenagers. Most teenagers everywhere. UM sure hassn’t helped its case by sucking so badly.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Looking like you’re trying to be serious isn’t the same as being serious. We’ll see if Miami is actually trying to be serious. I can’t fault any kid for skepticism on that topic, at this time. Manny just finished the worst season in 40 years at UM.

What I see is you’re blaming next year’s kids for things said and done in the past, by other kids. Seems excessive. I don’t assume kids are all hypocrites. They’re teenagers trying to make the right decisions for themselves and their families. Teenagers are uncertain, fickle, and emotional. Not just Miami teenagers. Most teenagers everywhere. UM sure hassn’t helped its case by sucking so badly.
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I envy your level of understanding when it comes to the immaturity of these kids. Immaturity that's synonymous with being a teen. I tend to be on the side of them knowing what they're doing. No need to throw a hat on the floor or fake a school to pick up another one. I feel like I've gotten better with getting worked up over missing top targets. Maybe one day I'll get to the level of emotional stability that you possess when it comes to recruiting.
 
armandose23 said:
I envy your level of understanding when it comes to the immaturity of these kids. Immaturity that's synonymous with being a teen. I tend to be on the side of them knowing what they're doing. No need to throw a hat on the floor or fake a school to pick up another one. I feel like I've gotten better with getting worked up over missing top targets. Maybe one day I'll get to the level of emotional stability that you possess when it comes to recruiting.
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Look at it this way- when they stop using UM in their hat game, you will know for sure we’re irrelevant.

And yeah, decades of watching recruiting teaches you that patterns repeat.
 
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