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Jai Lucas set to become next men’s basketball coach

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Problem2 said:
10 years ago :pgdead:

Then he lucked into a 2 year run because of the portal. And then he caused the collapse of the program because of how bad of a recruiter he was and tried fixing it in the portal, but missed on almost everyone.

Saying recruiting is not as important in this day and age is something.
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You're now the second person to use luck as a reason for a 700 game winner to make an elite 8 and a final four in back to back years. Yes Coach L got old and the game passed him by. He recognized it and got out pretty quickly.

The football board in December of 2021 couldn't help themselves dreaming of all the recruiting victories they were gonna have. The superior roster that Cristobal was supposed to build lost 3 out of 4 to close his third year. His 3rd full cycle since being hired and this is his worse ranked high school class. So sure recruiting is important but you've got a pretty clear example staring you in the face of why if that's all you have you'll never win anything of substance.

We have people on this board who love Houston. Kelvin Sampson's program is having their best success recruiting since they've been there. Why? Because they're consistently good. A place like Miami should be following the Houston model. Hire a good all around coach. Even Sampson had to go to the NBA because of a show cause because of recruiting violations. Will Wade would've made some sense here.

If Coogs thought like Miami they would've hired Antigua in 2014 instead of Sampson
 
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Gransapo said:
Please tell me this isn’t true. FFS, we can’t get out of our own way.
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Will Wade, although I believe he underperformed in the tournament and underdeveloped or underutilized talent like Emmitt Williams, Naz Reid, and Tari Eason, is a fair game name to bring up.

Richard Pitino is exactly the uninspiring hire that I am grateful the higher ups avoided. Dude just got fired from Minnesota and ended up at New Mexico.

Experience for experience sake is dumb. Juwan Howard would’ve been a 10x better hire than Pitino.
 
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cookies said:
Will Wade, although I believe he underperformed in the tournament and underdeveloped or underutilized talent like Emmitt Williams, Naz Reid, and Tari Eason, is a fair game name to bring up.

Richard Pitino is exactly the uninspiring hire that I am grateful the higher ups avoided. Dude just got fired from Minnesota and ended up at New Mexico.

Experience for experience sake is dumb. Juwan Howard would’ve been a 10x better hire than Pitino.
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The younger pitino hasn’t been very many basketball stops that would help with NIL. It’s hard to judge his resume. He’ll make the NCAA tournament again this year without ever being at a big city school as the head coach Lucas seems like that kind of guy that will leave for Texas or North Carolina at the first opportunity.
 
cookies said:
Will Wade, although I believe he underperformed in the tournament and underdeveloped or underutilized talent like Emmitt Williams, Naz Reid, and Tari Eason, is a fair game name to bring up.

Richard Pitino is exactly the uninspiring hire that I am grateful the higher ups avoided. Dude just got fired from Minnesota and ended up at New Mexico.

Experience for experience sake is dumb. Juwan Howard would’ve been a 10x better hire than Pitino.
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I am going to respectfully disagree with this. Yes, Pitino was fired from Minnesota, but it was during the craziness of Covid and it was after taking Minnesota to the tournament twice and getting one of the only three tournament wins Minnesota has had in the last ~30 years (against my Cardinals unfortunately). The firing was questioned by much of the fanbase. Minnesota is significantly worse since his firing, whereas Pitino has continued to mature and improve as a coach. If you follow any of those X’s and O’s basketball dorks on Twitter, they often post his offensive sets. Re: Howard, I think Pitino would be a better hire given how Howard’s tenure at Michigan ended (Pitino never had a program completely off the rails) but I’m sure he will get his chance again too. I think either one of them would have a higher chance of success than Lucas but we shall see. I’m betting Pitino will ultimately get another P5 coaching job.
 
canesstevealum08 said:
The younger pitino hasn’t been very many basketball stops that would help with NIL. It’s hard to judge his resume. He’ll make the NCAA tournament again this year without ever being at a big city school as the head coach Lucas seems like that kind of guy that will leave for Texas or North Carolina at the first opportunity.
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This is a defeatist mindset in my opinion although I grant you the threat of Texas will always be there with Lucas. I see that as the main if not only school that is a threat — assuming Lucas has great success at Miami. If he does and Texas comes calling, that would likely mean Miami made the right decision.

However, Texas could thrive over the next two decades and not need to grab Lucas, or they could prefer a candidate like Royal Ivey who was interviewed for the job last time around.

I think my issue with your framing of Pitino is that he could also leave Miami for another big time job or for the league. NIL is a phenomenon that started this decade so i don’t see that as particular relevant when judging between the two.
 
cookies said:
This is a defeatist mindset in my opinion although I grant you the threat of Texas will always be there with Lucas. I see that as the main if not only school that is a threat — assuming Lucas has great success at Miami. If he does and Texas comes calling, that would likely mean Miami made the right decision.

However, Texas could thrive over the next two decades and not need to grab Lucas, or they could prefer a candidate like Royal Ivey who was interviewed for the job last time around.

I think my issue with your framing of Pitino is that he could also leave Miami for another big time job or for the league. NIL is a phenomenon that started this decade so i don’t see that as particular relevant when judging between the two.
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It could also easily be argued that Minnesota has no basketball pedigree and it’s hard to recruit there because it’s ******* cold and miserable and they’re not really a big 10 superstar like Indiana or Michigan State or even Michigan
 
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Louisvillebasketball said:
I am going to respectfully disagree with this. Yes, Pitino was fired from Minnesota, but it was during the craziness of Covid and it was after taking Minnesota to the tournament twice and getting one of the only three tournament wins Minnesota has had in the last ~30 years (against my Cardinals unfortunately). The firing was questioned by much of the fanbase. Minnesota is significantly worse since his firing, whereas Pitino has continued to mature and improve as a coach. If you follow any of those X’s and O’s basketball dorks on Twitter, they often post his offensive sets. Re: Howard, I think Pitino would be a better hire given how Howard’s tenure at Michigan ended (Pitino never had a program completely off the rails) but I’m sure he will get his chance again too. I think either one of them would have a higher chance of success than Lucas but we shall see. I’m betting Pitino will ultimately get another P5 coaching job.
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Good rebuttal. I don’t wanna act like I think Pitino is charlatan, I do think Xs and Os wise he is a good coach. As you mentioned, Minnesota isn’t known for basketball success & Tubby Smith struggled to stay afloat there as well. I’d agree to disagree re: Juwan Howard.

Your point taken, perception matters a ton in regards to recruiting teenagers and their families. Lucas has a clean slate record wise whereas Richard Pitino would be on his fourth school in 12 years if he came to Miami. Additionally, it’s hard for me not to see a lot of Richard Pitino in Lucas himself.

The main difference between the two is that Lucas played college basketball and overseas. Moreover, Lucas’ experience around countless NBA players & organizations makes it easier for him to connect with what elite recruits want; notwithstanding his own personal experience as a McDonald’s all American who fell short of his NBA dreams who can vouch for the necessity of being well rounded and finding the right fit program wise — Lucas played under Billy Donovan, immediately after the Gators won back to back championships, then transferred to UT to play under Rick Barnes.

Why i see a lot of RP in Lucas is because they are both coaches’ sons who were assistants to top-flight programs before getting their own HC opportunity at a young age. After letting Coach L go until the wheels fell off, I’m glad we bought a brand new car rather than a slightly used one in RP.
 
canesstevealum08 said:
It could also easily be argued that Minnesota has no basketball pedigree and it’s hard to recruit there because it’s ******* cold and miserable and they’re not really a big 10 superstar like Indiana or Michigan State or even Michigan
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Agree with all that. However, families will google RP’s results and the results will be the same no matter what. Part of the responsibility in taking that job is knowing how to build a sustainable program despite the obstacles.
 
fincane said:
You're now the second person to use luck as a reason for a 700 game winner to make an elite 8 and a final four in back to back years. Yes Coach L got old and the game passed him by. He recognized it and got out pretty quickly.

The football board in December of 2021 couldn't help themselves dreaming of all the recruiting victories they were gonna have. The superior roster that Cristobal was supposed to build lost 3 out of 4 to close his third year. His 3rd full cycle since being hired and this is his worse ranked high school class. So sure recruiting is important but you've got a pretty clear example staring you in the face of why if that's all you have you'll never win anything of substance.

We have people on this board who love Houston. Kelvin Sampson's program is having their best success recruiting since they've been there. Why? Because they're consistently good. A place like Miami should be following the Houston model. Hire a good all around coach. Even Sampson had to go to the NBA because of a show cause because of recruiting violations. Will Wade would've made some sense here.

If Coogs thought like Miami they would've hired Antigua in 2014 instead of Sampson
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You do not “luck” your way into E8 then F4 in back to back years. Especially the F4 run. That team beat everyone except for UCONN, who nobody of beat. He took this program to heights never seen or thought possible for ***** sake. Had the best record against Roy and K outside of Tony Bennett. Won the league and tourney.

Pretty amazing how if you say Mario is Cam Ward away from being fired, and everybody jumps down your throat. But you say Coach L is the best coach in program history bc of his results and people say he got lucky winning the second most tournament games in the ACC in a multi year period and only second nationally behind the back to back champs.
 
cookies said:
Good rebuttal. I don’t wanna act like I think Pitino is charlatan, I do think Xs and Os wise he is a good coach. As you mentioned, Minnesota isn’t known for basketball success & Tubby Smith struggled to stay afloat there as well. I’d agree to disagree re: Juwan Howard.

Your point taken, perception matters a ton in regards to recruiting teenagers and their families. Lucas has a clean slate record wise whereas Richard Pitino would be on his fourth school in 12 years if he came to Miami. Additionally, it’s hard for me not to see a lot of Richard Pitino in Lucas himself.

The main difference between the two is that Lucas played college basketball and overseas. Moreover, Lucas’ experience around countless NBA players & organizations makes it easier for him to connect with what elite recruits want; notwithstanding his own personal experience as a McDonald’s all American who fell short of his NBA dreams who can vouch for the necessity of being well rounded and finding the right fit program wise — Lucas played under Billy Donovan, immediately after the Gators won back to back championships, then transferred to UT to play under Rick Barnes.

Why i see a lot of RP in Lucas is because they are both coaches’ sons who were assistants to top-flight programs before getting their own HC opportunity at a young age. After letting Coach L go until the wheels fell off, I’m glad we bought a brand new car rather than a slightly used one in RP.
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I think what matters most to recruiting, aside from NIL $, is ability to win NOW (especially in the transfer portal era where guys are looking for 1-2 year stints). No one will be looking at results from 8 years ago at Minnesota with a completely different team and program. That won’t even enter into any recruit’s head. They will look at the NIL package, and then they will look at roster construction and their ability to win next year. By the same token, relationships with “insiders” (shoe people, recruiting people) really don’t factor into the equation when you’re recruiting to a new program and nobody cares what level you reached as a player. Unfortunately, it reminds me of the same rationalizations we made when Kenny Payne was hired. Hopefully I’m just scarred and it works out for you. If you are happy about it, who am I to say it won’t work.
 
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Peter Ariz said:
Jai Lucas is Miami’s next coach. With all due respect to ESPN, they had no idea this was happening until we reported it.
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Crap I was hoping you sources were wrong. Yall boys find a good winter hobby, because Canes hoops just told you they don't really care about bball.
 
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JZCane0825 said:
Do you actually follow the sport/know anything about the hire?
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Yep, I know that you can't prove someone is a good recruiter when you recruit as an assistant at blue bloods.

I know hiring inexperienced assistants as HC in ACC has proven to have much smaller success rates.

I know Miami with recent past success shouldnt treat their coaching search like they are Boston College or Rutgers or California.

I know that when you have proven veteran HC that have a track record of winning at every stop the chances of having success is much higher than some unproven coach learning on the job.

Look no further than how the SEC has risen above the ACC in basketball.

Coach L for Jai Lucas?
Jim Boehim for Adrian Autry
Mike Bray for Micah Strewsberry
Rick Pitino for Kenny Payne?
Roy Williams for Hubert Davis?
Coach K for Jon Schayer? See if he can actually get to a final 4 with best player

I mean just atrocious hires.

Meanwhile:

Alabama hired Nate Oats
Auburn hires Bruce Pearl
Tennessee hires Rick Barnes
Ole Miss hires Chris Beard
Miss. St hires Chris Jans
Kentucky hires Mark Pope
Texas A&M hires Buzz Petterson
Florida hires Todd Golden
Arkansas hires John Calipari
 
gacaneaddict said:
Yep, I know that you can't prove someone is a good recruiter when you recruit as an assistant at blue bloods.

I know hiring inexperienced assistants as HC in ACC has proven to have much smaller success rates.

I know Miami with recent past success shouldnt treat their coaching search like they are Boston College or Rutgers or California.

I know that when you have proven veteran HC that have a track record of winning at every stop the chances of having success is much higher than some unproven coach learning on the job.

Look no further than how the SEC has risen above the ACC in basketball.

Coach L for Jai Lucas?
Jim Boehim for Adrian Autry
Mike Bray for Micah Strewsberry
Rick Pitino for Kenny Payne?
Roy Williams for Hubert Davis?
Coach K for Jon Schayer? See if he can actually get to a final 4 with best player

I mean just atrocious hires.

Meanwhile:

Alabama hired Nate Oats
Auburn hires Bruce Pearl
Tennessee hires Rick Barnes
Ole Miss hires Chris Beard
Miss. St hires Chris Jans
Kentucky hires Mark Pope
Texas A&M hires Buzz Petterson
Florida hires Todd Golden
Arkansas hires John Calipari
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Might be the best post of the thread right here. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Look, is there a chance Lucas succeeds here? Absolutely, and I sure as **** hope so. But if recent history is any indication, his chances of failing are significantly higher than going the experienced HC/ mid major HC route.
 
i'll reserve judgement on this hire until we see what the roster looks like in the fall. This roster needs to be 100% purged which is what L faced post Final Four. He recruited the wrong guys (obviously) whereas in the past he brought in a solid mix of top freshman and 2-3 transfers to fill in the gaps. Look no further than the fact that we have 5 guys in the NBA currently (Brown, George, Lonnie, Miller and Wong (though I think he just got waived) plus Shane is one of the top 5 paid guys in Europe and is a superstar for Efes. Bringing in Nigel, Norchad and Miller is why we made the Final 4. They filled the gaps when Charlie and Sam left. He had a good eye for how the pieces would compliment each other but got in over his head quickly when we had to fill 10 scholarships quickly and brought in guys like Johnson Kidd, Stanton, Blackmon, Djobet who weren't even worthy of mid major playing time IMO. The hope was a stud recruit like Bethea could blossom like Lonnie and Bruce did when we brought them in but it's clear now he is more of a work in progress. I wonder how we would have done this year if Norchad, Wooga and Bensley stayed and Pack and Cleveland were healthy all year. Sorry for the long winded thoughts but I still think we need someone with HC experience. If I was Rad i would have gone to Joe and Rudy and asked for a blank check and then called the agents for
Kelvin Sampson
Scott Drew
Bruce Pearl
Nate Oats
Dana Altman
Mark Few
Chris Beard
Steve Pikiel
Brad Underwood
Greg McDermott
and yes even the elder Pitino among others.
and throw a bank at them and make it difficult to say no.
I hope I'm wrong because it will be 3-4 years before we have to hire another head coach because Rad will give Jai Alai Lukas that long to produce positive results
 
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