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How many times does it need to be stated? Fall 2020 cannot CANNOT "count forward". Multiple people have posted the NCAA rules. It is clear. Fall 2020 either counts NOW (2020-2021) or BACK. Not forward.
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Issiah Walker
- Thread starter Udynasty
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How many times does it need to be stated? Fall 2020 cannot CANNOT "count forward". Multiple people have posted the NCAA rules. It is clear. Fall 2020 either counts NOW (2020-2021) or BACK. Not forward.
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He keeps changing the story because he doesn’t know , he has to keep moving the goal posts to sound legit and to make the 9.99 seem worth it. I have nothing against him , he’s a good writer and writes good articles on recruiting. That’s the strength of that site. But sadly if you’re there for inside info he just doesn’t have much.
His sauce is somebody the staff allows to feed him what they want him to eat. It’s pretty obvious especially knowing some things I know before him , I can literally see him changing the stories while hedging his bet. But in his defense that’s all the 247 guys.
If you want to read good articles and know about Sfla names in recruiting then drop that 9.99, if you do it for first hand insider info in the program you’re wasting your money.
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Anything new on the Houston transfer @Cribby
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Just what I posted yesterday. So not really.
If he hasn’t committed to Baylor yet tells you he’s waiting , it looks like Miami is the option he wants.
PittsburghCane
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Y’all are saying the same thing tho Cribby, that we are taking more transfers, which contradicts Original Cane.
I feel that we will do what I posted in a bylaw previously, and count Williams as a 20-21.
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PittsburghCane
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I think the confusion is the definition of forward.
I understand "FORWARD" as 2020-21 which is the class we are currently recruiting for. I see it as forward because its not the timeframe we are currently in.
You are counting "FORWARD" as three semesters from now 2021-2022.
I think we are all saying the same thing. We can take transfers as long as they count against the 21 class (the one with Thad Franklin, Brantley, etc).
Does this make sense?
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No. It doesn't make sense.
The NCAA rules clearly say a person who signs to receive financial aid for the first time in the fall counts towards THAT YEAR. Later, it says that people who get financial aid for the first time in the spring or summer can "count forward" to the next academic year.
We are NOT "currently recruiting" for the 2020-2021 class. We are not. We ALREADY HAVE recruited for the 2020-2021 class, and we signed those kids earlier in the year, even if they enrolled early (spring 2020, since there IS NO summer 2020).
It doesn't matter if you "understand" forward as 2020-2021. It just isn't. Go look at the language of the rules. It says "that year". Meaning, if you get financial aid for the first time in fall 2020, you are NOT "counting forward" to 2020-2021, you are counting to THAT YEAR. "Forward" would mean 2021-2022. Read the words.
And, no, we can't "take transfers as long as they count against the 2021 class. We. Can't. Do. That. Unless these "transfers" come in Spring 2021, they can't "count forward" to the 2021-2022 class.
I'll say it one more time.
For decades, a February signing class meant that everyone enrolled in August. Then, some kids started showing up in the summer, to get a jump on practice. Then, high schools cooperated and you started to see more mid-year graduations, when kids could enroll as early as January. But January and summertime are kids coming EARLY.
Put this a different way. The IC rules had to start sometime. The IC rules actually became effective August 1, 2010. Thus, the first academic year was 2010-2011. What that means is this. A school did NOT get to sign 25 kids to enroll them in January 2010 (thus beating the IC rule effective date) and then sign another 25 kids to enroll in August 2010. That's not how it works, that's not how it was created.
In fact, if you go back to the language of the earliest versions of the IC rules, it applied to LOI signings that took place between December 1 and May 31. In the original drafting, that would mean that anyone who signed in December/reported in January, and anyone who signed in February-May time period/reported in Summer/Fall, would be considered to be a part of the same class.
Since the original drafting of the IC rules, there have been a lot of structural changes in college football, and there have been revisions to the rules. The primary "big picture" changes include the rise of January enrollment, the introduction of the "non-binding" Financial Aid Agreement, and the "early signing period".
But going back to my initial example, in Year 1 of the IC rules, the entire group of recruits who signed LOIs from December 1 to May 31 counted as a part of the same class, the same group that was limited to 25 ICs. Thus, a person who signed in December/reported in January was just the "front-end" of a signing class that would be counted as of the 2010-2011 academic year. You didn't get to "loophole" the rule (which you knew was in progress) by enrolling a ****e-ton of kids in January 2010 who would "never count". The rule was ALWAYS intended to allow schools to bring kids in EARLY, though the number of early enrollees back in 2010 was much lower.
So then, once the FIRST YEAR of the IC rules were established, and all of the December 1, 2009 to May 31, 2010 signees all counted towards the 2010-2011 academic year, everything followed accordingly. The rule did NOT establish, as of August 1, 2010, that your "Fall 2010 enrollees" and your "Spring 2011 enrollees" were in the same class. That did not happen.
But what the rule DID provide for, was that if you did not enroll 25 of your December 1, 2009-May 31, 2010 recruits by August 2010, you could "carry forward" your unused IC slots, and then use them in the NEXT year as "count backs".
Thus, if your 2010 signing class (including early enrollees) did not hit 25, you could use those unused slots for your 2011 signing class, which covered signees from December 1, 2010 to May 31, 2011.
I realize that those dates are no longer included in the rules. But that was what was ORIGINALLY created, and there was no magical time period where you got to sign 50 kids by breaking up your signing class by enrollment date.
August is when each school has to certify that (a) they have 85 "counters" or fewer, and (b) they have used their 25 "initial counters" (or fewer) for THAT academic year (i.e., 2020-2021). The kids you sign in December 2020 and January and February of 2021 do NOT count against 2020-2021 (unless you have one or two remaining 2020-2021 IC slots), they "count forward" to 2021-2022.
I realize that if people ONLY read the current rules, which have been amended multiple times over the years, they can get confused. But go back and find the original language of the IC rules. I assure you, the language (at that time) made it clear that a signing class (subject to the IC limit of 25) included people who signed between December 1 and May 31.
So it's time for the CIS amateurs to stop ******* around and telling us about how Fall 2020 enrollees can "count forward" to 2021-2022. They can't. And all of our January 2020 enrollees, as well as our August 2020 enrollees (and there are not going to be any Summer 2020 enrollees) are on the "2020-2021 academic year" IC list.
That's just...how the rule works. Always has. You don't get to put all of your January 2020 enrollments on the 2019-2020 bill, and all your August 2020 enrollments on the 2020-2021 bill.
Doesn't work that way.
And, if the rule is not clear enough, Fall 2020 enrollees can't "count forward".
"Kids who can play football in 2020" and "Kids who can play football in 2021" are two different recruiting classes. No matter when you sign them or enroll them. You can't magically wish this so that "Spring 2020 enrollees who can play in Fall 2020" and "Fall 2020 enrollees who can play in Fall 2020" are in two different IC groups.
Can't do it.
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And just because people can be hard-headed, here is the original version of the IC rules:
15.5.1.10 Offers Exceeding Maximum Allowable Awards. An institution may offer more than the maximum number of permissible awards in a sport (per Bylaw 15.5) in anticipation that not all of the offers will be accepted, but the institution shall not exceed the awards limitation in the sport in question.
15.5.1.10.1 Limitation on Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings—Bowl Subdivision Football. [FBS] In bowl subdivision football, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid from December 1 through May 31. (Adopted: 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10, Revised: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12)
Obviously the language has changed over the years. But this is the ORIGINAL text of the IC rules, which clearly puts a limit of 25 on the class of recruits who sign LOIs between December 1 through May 31. Which included January enrollees.
And, yes, before anyone tries to get too cute, they took the dates out so that schools couldn't "loophole" this by waiting until June 1.
Now the rule covers when you FIRST receive the financial aid. And in order to get December signees into the same class as August enrollees, that's why they introduced the "count forward" language.
They did it to CLOSE the June 1 loophole, not to OPEN a super-secret loophole that only CIS porsters know.
15.5.1.10 Offers Exceeding Maximum Allowable Awards. An institution may offer more than the maximum number of permissible awards in a sport (per Bylaw 15.5) in anticipation that not all of the offers will be accepted, but the institution shall not exceed the awards limitation in the sport in question.
15.5.1.10.1 Limitation on Number of National Letter of Intent/Offer of Financial Aid Signings—Bowl Subdivision Football. [FBS] In bowl subdivision football, there shall be an annual limit of 25 on the number of prospective student-athletes who may sign a National Letter of Intent or an institutional offer of financial aid from December 1 through May 31. (Adopted: 1/16/10 effective 8/1/10, Revised: 1/14/12 effective 8/1/12)
Obviously the language has changed over the years. But this is the ORIGINAL text of the IC rules, which clearly puts a limit of 25 on the class of recruits who sign LOIs between December 1 through May 31. Which included January enrollees.
And, yes, before anyone tries to get too cute, they took the dates out so that schools couldn't "loophole" this by waiting until June 1.
Now the rule covers when you FIRST receive the financial aid. And in order to get December signees into the same class as August enrollees, that's why they introduced the "count forward" language.
They did it to CLOSE the June 1 loophole, not to OPEN a super-secret loophole that only CIS porsters know.
PittsburghCane
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So the only way for Williams is to blueshirt as long as we don’t give an OV or visit him, and he signs fin aid in camp time (SCe did it a few times last year as reference https://www.thestate.com/sports/col...h-carolina/usc-football/article238863833.html ———- and Nebraska last December https://247sports.com/college/nebra...-Nebraska-football-Blueshirt-offer-140635070/ )
And Tags bro would have to blueshirt or grayshirt, which TUA could cover year 1 and Taulia protects eligibility.
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I just covered this on another thread:
Counting Football Scholarships Forward
When we just put all the walk-ons on scholarship, Did they eat into our ability to get somebody like the Houston OT? Or do they count against several years ago? Since the CIS geniuses have guaranteed us that we can take as many transfers as we want this fall (and count them against 2021...
www.canesinsight.com
I've said this before.
Miami is a university that has a football team, it's not a football team that offers classes on the side.
It's very amusing how people spout "blueshirt" as if they even know how to accomplish it.
Nebraska has a DECADES-LONG tradition of getting walk-ons to play football at Nebraska, many of them very good walk-ons who eventually and legitimately earn a scholarship (and not just a "we're under 85 ships" pity scholarship/PR opportunity).
I realize I said it in a much more lengthy version on the other thread, and sometimes after I type it once, I figure out a way to say it shorter the second time around.
The issue is not just "as long as we don't recruit him". That's just the first step of multiple steps.
One thing that a lot of the "I didn't go to UM but I love the football Hurricanes" crowd doesn't understand is how UM works (and this applies to other higher-quality universities as well).
There are many universities that, if your "average" football or basketball player applied to, would never admit that applicant on the person's academic merits. To say it more politely, many people do NOT realize how much the Athletic Department, and a SIGNED LOI OR FAA, allows a football or basketball player to be fast-tracked through the Admissions process.
Not to mention what is happening in the Covid-19 world THIS YEAR.
So in a normal year, Taulia would be applying for "transfer" to UM, while Jarrid would be applying TO GRADUATE SCHOOL AT UM. And if you don't have a signed LOI/FAA, those two guys would have to be admitted on their own academic merits:
1. Both Taulia and Jarrid are WELL-PAST the normal application deadlines. Being a recruited athlete with a signed LOI/FAA allows that person to be fast-tracked through the process.
2. I do not have the specific GPA details, but many Division I-A athletes do not have outstanding HS or college GPAs at a level to compete for transfer to a university (most universities only take a small number of transfers per year) or for graduate school at a small and highly ranked school such as Miami. Again, being a recruited athlete with a signed LOI/FAA allows that person to be pushed through the process even if that person does not have an outstanding GPA/admission essay/letters of recommendation/resume.
3. Miami would have completed work on its transfer and grad admissions before the Covid-19 quarantine hit, and will largely be shut down for administrative purposes for the next several months. So a late transfer/graduate application, lacking outstanding credentials, and not having the "push" of a recruited athlete/LOI/FAA behind it...will likely be processed EVEN SLOWER during the quarantine, if at all.
There are very valid reasons why "blueshirting" is almost completely exclusive to situations involving state schools, without super-high admissions standards, and almost always for incoming freshmen.
And there are valid reasons why Miami has never pulled off a blueshirt, let alone a blueshirt for a transfer or a grad.
Maybe Taulia can get through this gauntlet. Please realize, if Tua just cuts a $75K check for Year 1, Miami could put Taulia on scholarship for Years 2 and 3 WITHOUT ANY IC IMPLICATIONS WHATSOEVER, so Taulia would never have to take an IC slot away from anyone.
And please note, I have never said that Taulia isn't getting into UM, I just said things would be MUCH MUCH EASIER if Tua pays for Year 1.
But Jarrid Williams is a near-impossibility. He would have no benefit of the Athletic Department being to push him through Admissions at this late date, and with everything shut down.
I find it highly unlikely that ANY football player good enough to be desired by Miami (notice I didn't say "recruited") would go through such an uncertain process when he has written offers from other schools.
I love my alma mater. But I would be willing to bet that if you asked the Moise family whether they should trust UM's word, they might not be so optimistic.
(PS, neither Walker nor Moise could ever blueshirt at Miami, as we have definitely recruited them in the past)
(PPS, this is why you have to "hand-pick" a blueshirt candidate well in advance, it has to be a Joaquin Gonzalez type)
(PPPS, Tua writing a check for Taulia could also have another impact, in that it would make Taulia a Preferred Walk-On, and he COULD get the Aunt Becky treatment, that is, a partial assist on Admissions, not because the AD says "take this kid, he has an LOI" but because Taulia would be participating in athletics as a student...it's worth a $75K gamble if he really wants to go to UM)
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By the way, a lot of "recent NCAA rule experts" could have saved us all a lot of time and effort by using the word "blueshirt" (which could happen, but is unbelievably unlikely for anyone except for Taulia and his family resources) instead of "count forward" (which is impermissible).
And let me save everyone the effort...
And let me save everyone the effort...
FreePawn
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In that case means they cannot enter til after the fall term and can't play until the 21 season. So a Jarrid Williams can't as he will have used up his eligibility by then.
PittsburghCane
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Sounds good.I just covered this on another thread:
Counting Football Scholarships Forward
When we just put all the walk-ons on scholarship, Did they eat into our ability to get somebody like the Houston OT? Or do they count against several years ago? Since the CIS geniuses have guaranteed us that we can take as many transfers as we want this fall (and count them against 2021...
I've said this before.
Miami is a university that has a football team, it's not a football team that offers classes on the side.
It's very amusing how people spout "blueshirt" as if they even know how to accomplish it.
Nebraska has a DECADES-LONG tradition of getting walk-ons to play football at Nebraska, many of them very good walk-ons who eventually and legitimately earn a scholarship (and not just a "we're under 85 ships" pity scholarship/PR opportunity).
I realize I said it in a much more lengthy version on the other thread, and sometimes after I type it once, I figure out a way to say it shorter the second time around.
The issue is not just "as long as we don't recruit him". That's just the first step of multiple steps.
One thing that a lot of the "I didn't go to UM but I love the football Hurricanes" crowd doesn't understand is how UM works (and this applies to other higher-quality universities as well).
There are many universities that, if your "average" football or basketball player applied to, would never admit that applicant on the person's academic merits. To say it more politely, many people do NOT realize how much the Athletic Department, and a SIGNED LOI OR FAA, allows a football or basketball player to be fast-tracked through the Admissions process.
Not to mention what is happening in the Covid-19 world THIS YEAR.
So in a normal year, Taulia would be applying for "transfer" to UM, while Jarrid would be applying TO GRADUATE SCHOOL AT UM. And if you don't have a signed LOI/FAA, those two guys would have to be admitted on their own academic merits:
1. Both Taulia and Jarrid are WELL-PAST the normal application deadlines. Being a recruited athlete with a signed LOI/FAA allows that person to be fast-tracked through the process.
2. I do not have the specific GPA details, but many Division I-A athletes do not have outstanding HS or college GPAs at a level to compete for transfer to a university (most universities only take a small number of transfers per year) or for graduate school at a small and highly ranked school such as Miami. Again, being a recruited athlete with a signed LOI/FAA allows that person to be pushed through the process even if that person does not have an outstanding GPA/admission essay/letters of recommendation/resume.
3. Miami would have completed work on its transfer and grad admissions before the Covid-19 quarantine hit, and will largely be shut down for administrative purposes for the next several months. So a late transfer/graduate application, lacking outstanding credentials, and not having the "push" of a recruited athlete/LOI/FAA behind it...will likely be processed EVEN SLOWER during the quarantine, if at all.
There are very valid reasons why "blueshirting" is almost completely exclusive to situations involving state schools, without super-high admissions standards, and almost always for incoming freshmen.
And there are valid reasons why Miami has never pulled off a blueshirt, let alone a blueshirt for a transfer or a grad.
Maybe Taulia can get through this gauntlet. Please realize, if Tua just cuts a $75K check for Year 1, Miami could put Taulia on scholarship for Years 2 and 3 WITHOUT ANY IC IMPLICATIONS WHATSOEVER, so Taulia would never have to take an IC slot away from anyone.
And please note, I have never said that Taulia isn't getting into UM, I just said things would be MUCH MUCH EASIER if Tua pays for Year 1.
But Jarrid Williams is a near-impossibility. He would have no benefit of the Athletic Department being to push him through Admissions at this late date, and with everything shut down.
I find it highly unlikely that ANY football player good enough to be desired by Miami (notice I didn't say "recruited") would go through such an uncertain process when he has written offers from other schools.
I love my alma mater. But I would be willing to bet that if you asked the Moise family whether they should trust UM's word, they might not be so optimistic.
(PS, neither Walker nor Moise could ever blueshirt at Miami, as we have definitely recruited them in the past)
(PPS, this is why you have to "hand-pick" a blueshirt candidate well in advance, it has to be a Joaquin Gonzalez type)
(PPPS, Tua writing a check for Taulia could also have another impact, in that it would make Taulia a Preferred Walk-On, and he COULD get the Aunt Becky treatment, that is, a partial assist on Admissions, not because the AD says "take this kid, he has an LOI" but because Taulia would be participating in athletics as a student...it's worth a $75K gamble if he really wants to go to UM)
Long story short - yes blueshirt or reclaimed IC from Asa is the only way. They’re hard.
I leave it there.
I disagree with the Moise angle. If he has the grades he would have been in the class. That’s not a UM thing. That’s like saying UM lost a game late because of missed field goal. Well no, it’s what leads up to that which hurts you. His grades were in question so that’s on him.
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canesthing3
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TheOriginalCane takes this scholarship business real serious.
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Pitt has some dogs on that DL tho
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Yeah, you have been great to converse with, but this is certainly a tricky subject.
I just like to be honest. Some guys will say "blueshirt the kid" as if it is an easy thing. I prefer to point out that we have NEVER blueshirted anyone, we are up against the Covid-19 reality, and neither Taulia or Jarrid are great blueshirt candidates anyhow.
The saving grace with Taulia seems to be that UM is BY FAR the preferred location and the family has resources.
I just don't see it with Jarrid, though. And I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to be wrong.
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PittsburghCane
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Definitely my man. And thank you big time as much knowledge you brought and as patient you are with it. I can be stubborn in my opinion sometimes but you gave great feedback.
HurricaneUWW
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Don’t forget Justin Vogel as well
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The subway guy? Hes in prison.
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