KANE
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This!
forums
Is this the biggest transformation of a program?
- Thread starter Dwinstitles
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PBJFanatic
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He’s talking about immediate overhaul after becoming HC. Not on field results.
kryptonite
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Agree. Kirby brought the way bama does things, both on the field and bag-wise to an already good program. Maybe it wasn't the same type of top to bottom overhaul, but it took that team from consistently good to a crazy talented machine. As we've seen all these years, that's not easy to do.
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Didn't read every page, but Pete Carroll's transformation of USC from 20 years of average to dominant nationally was impressive. 6-6 in Year 1, then a great run until his last season and return to the NFL.
And USC quickly tanked after Pete left.
And USC quickly tanked after Pete left.
kryptonite
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Yeah, I'm trying not to fall into the mope category, but it's getting tedious reading how amazing we are now. As if we haven't spouted the same stuff after every coaching change. I'm NOT saying Mario won't get us there, but folks can't wait to be the first to claim we're back. The voices saying this will be a multi-year rebuild are already fading, replaced by a bunch of talk about how we should not only beat everybody in the coastal, but Clem and ATM aren't really that much better and maybe we should beat them too. I'm just saying maybe we can slow down on the predictions and just see how it plays out.
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Wonder why you'll never see any video of either the Texas or MSU games. The evidence was destroyed!
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lol jesus
Great write up.While these are prior to the hiring of Saban at Alabama, two of the greatest transformations are:
1) Schnellenberger: he took a woefully underperforming program and transformed it by (among other things): (1) recruiting the best talent from the State of Miami (including the less beaten paths) and (2) utilizing a pro style passing attack. It's actually amazing that he connected so well with his recruits. He also completely transformed the way CFB is played (with greater emphasis on the passing game). The Canes took CFB by storm & will forever be one of the greatest stories in all of sports. No-one (not even Bama) does it with quite the flair & swag as the Canes when they are in full flight.
2) Butch Davis: he took a program from the ashes to the absolute pinnacle (the greatest CFB team ever). The degree of difficulty on that task is off the charts. He had to hit on virtually every eval with limited schollys. To sell big time recruits on his vision (with a big black cloud of issues as the backdrop) was amazing. To assemble that staff (which was unbelievably good) while the U was still being pretty darn frugal was a tremendous feat. To recruit that many 1st round picks, NFL HOFers, CFB HOFers (including some players that are among the best ever at their position) and package that into a dynamic & super fast team that ended up destroying highly ranked opponents by 2001 is astoundingly good. His teams were also disciplined & appeared to win with class. Even though his departure was not ideal, he should be revered forever by Canes fans for that body of work. He had almost nothing to work with (program on life support, limited schollys, limited budget, brutal backdrop of prior issues etc) except some very fertile recruiting grounds & brand that still had some national cache.
In terms of more recent transformations:
1) Mario: It appears that he basically insisted on gutting the place before signing on the dotted line (which was very intelligent). Everything has changed or is changing, including but not limited to:
- AD (from incredibly mediocre to now having someone that knows what a winning organization looks like & the significant support that requires)
- level of support from the Admin & Golden Canes (what a difference this is already making)
- strong staff both on-field and off-field (the current # of off field positions likely dwarf the prior #....and that's huge). I don't know if we do it, but I'd love Mario to have a staff dedicated to breaking down every opponent's tendencies on every single type of play (over the last 2-3 seasons with emphasis on years the opponent's current QB, HC, OC & DC were involved in) & then distilling that into simple-to-follow presentations for the coaches & players
- intense focus on recruiting (with all coaches expected to be strong recruiters). This should supplement intense film study by the coaches & players
- expansion of our recruiting territories (yes, we've been a national recruiter for over 40 years but we've undeniably gotten stronger on the West Coast with Mario & the coaches he retained from Oregon and in the Midwest with Gattis). The implications of this are huge for the program going forward. We should always make dominating the State of Miami our #1 priority but some of our best teams had great players from TX, LA & CA.
- significant emphasis on the trenches
- S&C
- work ethic
- culture.
2) Wake Forest: from cellar dweller to ACC contender.
3) USC: they've been a powerhouse program for much of their history but Riley is going to take a woefully underperforming program & re-invigorate it. They've been flat out mediocre for the most part since old Petey hightailed it out of there (when it was about to became apparent that his alleged "che@ting" was going to come to light).
4) MSU: most of their turnaround seems attributable to some strong work in the Portal last off-season. Not sure what other elements of the program changed.
Not that impressed with their turnarounds:
1) Texas A&M: Jimbo is winning at about the same rate (very slightly better) than his predecessor and he's been there 4 years. Losing 4-5 games a year just ain't that impressive. He strained relationships at FSU by relentlessly asking for money from mostly mom & pop type boosters. He's received tremendous financial support at A&M and produced nothing special of note yet. Consistent 4-5 loss seasons ain't good. Maybe he's now b@ught his way (allegedly) to some incremental success but if he doesn't start winning at a higher rate soon his a@@ will be gr@$$ because he demands tremendous financial support from the Admin & boosters.
2) UGA: winning the MNC was a great achievement but UGA had pretty much everything you would want in a powerhouse program before Kirby. They had elite recruiting classes every year long before he arrived. His changes were more subtle & I think of him more as putting spinners on a Bentley.
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A case of major transformation not working out/what might have been, but that one year Lane had in Tennessee was pretty wild. There was all kinds of hype around it. The staff he brought in was pretty nuts as well.
Lane - HC
Jim Chaney - OC/OL
David Reaves - QB
Eddie Gran - RB/ST
Frank Wilson - WR
James Cregg - TE/Tackles
Monte Kiffin - DC
Ed Orgeron - DL
Lance Thompson - LB
Willie Mack Garza - DB
Garza is the "weakest link" on that staff. Reaves left coaching because of a Dewey he got at Oregon. Everyone else is pretty nice.
Lane inherited a 5-7 team, no portal, and went 7-6. This team was in every game but 2 that they played, including a 10 point loss at #3 UiF and a 2 point loss at eventual BCS champ Bama. Two years later Urban had "health issues." If Lane had just stayed in Knoxville...
Lane - HC
Jim Chaney - OC/OL
David Reaves - QB
Eddie Gran - RB/ST
Frank Wilson - WR
James Cregg - TE/Tackles
Monte Kiffin - DC
Ed Orgeron - DL
Lance Thompson - LB
Willie Mack Garza - DB
Garza is the "weakest link" on that staff. Reaves left coaching because of a Dewey he got at Oregon. Everyone else is pretty nice.
Lane inherited a 5-7 team, no portal, and went 7-6. This team was in every game but 2 that they played, including a 10 point loss at #3 UiF and a 2 point loss at eventual BCS champ Bama. Two years later Urban had "health issues." If Lane had just stayed in Knoxville...
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CaneTheGaytors
Biletnikoff Award Winner
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Excellent post!While these are prior to the hiring of Saban at Alabama, two of the greatest transformations are:
1) Schnellenberger: he took a woefully underperforming program and transformed it by (among other things): (1) recruiting the best talent from the State of Miami (including the less beaten paths) and (2) utilizing a pro style passing attack. It's actually amazing that he connected so well with his recruits. He also completely transformed the way CFB is played (with greater emphasis on the passing game). The Canes took CFB by storm & will forever be one of the greatest stories in all of sports. No-one (not even Bama) does it with quite the flair & swag as the Canes when they are in full flight.
2) Butch Davis: he took a program from the ashes to the absolute pinnacle (the greatest CFB team ever). The degree of difficulty on that task is off the charts. He had to hit on virtually every eval with limited schollys. To sell big time recruits on his vision (with a big black cloud of issues as the backdrop) was amazing. To assemble that staff (which was unbelievably good) while the U was still being pretty darn frugal was a tremendous feat. To recruit that many 1st round picks, NFL HOFers, CFB HOFers (including some players that are among the best ever at their position) and package that into a dynamic & super fast team that ended up destroying highly ranked opponents by 2001 is astoundingly good. His teams were also disciplined & appeared to win with class. Even though his departure was not ideal, he should be revered forever by Canes fans for that body of work. He had almost nothing to work with (program on life support, limited schollys, limited budget, brutal backdrop of prior issues etc) except some very fertile recruiting grounds & brand that still had some national cache.
In terms of more recent transformations:
1) Mario: It appears that he basically insisted on gutting the place before signing on the dotted line (which was very intelligent). Everything has changed or is changing, including but not limited to:
- AD (from incredibly mediocre to now having someone that knows what a winning organization looks like & the significant support that requires)
- level of support from the Admin & Golden Canes (what a difference this is already making)
- strong staff both on-field and off-field (the current # of off field positions likely dwarf the prior #....and that's huge). I don't know if we do it, but I'd love Mario to have a staff dedicated to breaking down every opponent's tendencies on every single type of play (over the last 2-3 seasons with emphasis on years the opponent's current QB, HC, OC & DC were involved in) & then distilling that into simple-to-follow presentations for the coaches & players
- intense focus on recruiting (with all coaches expected to be strong recruiters). This should supplement intense film study by the coaches & players
- expansion of our recruiting territories (yes, we've been a national recruiter for over 40 years but we've undeniably gotten stronger on the West Coast with Mario & the coaches he retained from Oregon and in the Midwest with Gattis). The implications of this are huge for the program going forward. We should always make dominating the State of Miami our #1 priority but some of our best teams had great players from TX, LA & CA.
- significant emphasis on the trenches
- S&C
- work ethic
- culture.
2) Wake Forest: from cellar dweller to ACC contender.
3) USC: they've been a powerhouse program for much of their history but Riley is going to take a woefully underperforming program & re-invigorate it. They've been flat out mediocre for the most part since old Petey hightailed it out of there (when it was about to became apparent that his alleged "che@ting" was going to come to light).
4) MSU: most of their turnaround seems attributable to some strong work in the Portal last off-season. Not sure what other elements of the program changed.
Not that impressed with their turnarounds:
1) Texas A&M: Jimbo is winning at about the same rate (very slightly better) than his predecessor and he's been there 4 years. Losing 4-5 games a year just ain't that impressive. He strained relationships at FSU by relentlessly asking for money from mostly mom & pop type boosters. He's received tremendous financial support at A&M and produced nothing special of note yet. Consistent 4-5 loss seasons ain't good. Maybe he's now b@ught his way (allegedly) to some incremental success but if he doesn't start winning at a higher rate soon his a@@ will be gr@$$ because he demands tremendous financial support from the Admin & boosters.
2) UGA: winning the MNC was a great achievement but UGA had pretty much everything you would want in a powerhouse program before Kirby. They had elite recruiting classes every year long before he arrived. His changes were more subtle & I think of him more as putting spinners on a Bentley.
Redstate12
Junior
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It will be a great one but Bama was bigger. Remember they had barely escaped the death penalty and lost 21 scholarship 5 years before Saban got there. He had a winning season a few years back and many years past all the Shapiro stuff. What I want to be bigger is the run of success that's more important.
HOLISTIC CANE
"All Disease Begins in The Gut." - Hippocrates
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Well then it’s definitely Mario because he has Dwins going from SEC love fest to moonwalking through Coral Gables
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Alabama's issues didn't extend into management of the athletic department. Ours is a commitment not just to the football progrum, but the entire department. I'm not aware of any with that wide of a scope.
D-anon
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The Sphinx
Hand me the keys you ******* **********!!
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This right here and couldn’t have said it better. I think our transformation so far along with USCw has been very impressive. Just need to show results on the field to make it all count for something.
But make no mistake though - we are in a great spot. I’ve been a Cane fan since 1983, and I’ve never seen all facets of our institution working in lockstep the way it’s setup now. Literally everything you could want infrastructure wise is in place now. Again though, we just need to erase our 20-year stigma and not just get squeak by wins but get dominating, crushing wins. We need to make a statement next season.
But at the end of the day, LCE is 100. Those blue blood programs are NOT about to concede to us. They are going to do whatever they can to try to hold us back. It will be tough, but I think the resilience of Mario, Radakovich and Ruiz will pay off.
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They quickly tanked because they got put on massive sanctions for buying players from coast to coast that were the reason for his turnaround. That's why he left when he did.
Dwinstitles
All-American
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Lane should of never left there. He went to USC thinking they were committed and they weren't
Damiencane86
All ACC
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I can't wait to **** off the status quo again
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