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Is Morris our best QB since Dorsey?

Instead of arguing who was better and where they ranked among the rest of our QBs in the last decade, I would prefer to speculate on how good Morris could be this year. Oh and I brought stats with me too. I rewatched all of the games from 2012 and logged all the drops, low throws and Overthrows. If the bad throw resulted in missed touchdown, the number would be in (*1). {i.e. Drops: 7(*1) would be 7 total drops and one of those drops was in the endzone for a touchdown}

Below is how Stephen Morris performed for 2012.

Stephen Morris: Pass Comp: 245/421 Yards: 3345 CMP %: 58.2 TD: 21 INT: 7 QB Rating: 138.1

[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Drops[/td]
[td]Low Throws[/td]
[td]Over Throws[/td]
[td]TD[/td]
[td]INT[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]BC[/td]
[td]7(*1)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]KSU[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]BCC[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]2(*2)[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]GT[/td]
[td]4(*1)[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]7(*3)[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]NCST[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]3(*2)[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]ND[/td]
[td]6(*2)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1(*1)[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]UNC[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]FSU[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]VT[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]3(*1)[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]UVA[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]3(*2)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]USF[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]2(*1)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]DUKE[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]3(*1)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]TOTALS[/td]
[td]48 (4 Missed TDs)[/td]
[td]27[/td]
[td]34 (13 Missed TDs)[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Morris was erratic at times, even more than I thought he was. I was chatting with Dwinstiles(sp) about Morris and the fact that he got much better in the last four games with his consistency and these numbers definitely reflect that. However In the last for games, Morris overthrew 5 guys for sure touchdowns. Overall he missed 13 TD opportunities because he has trouble putting a little air under the ball. Out of the 13 overthrows, only 3 were less than 25 yards. Imagine what his passing stats would have been if he connected on just half of those. The ND and UNC game losses along with the NCST were the worse games for our receivers logging over 5 drops/game during that three game stretch.

For having 421 attempts, 61 Errant throws really isn't good but it also isn't all that bad. Averages out to be ~14% of time, Morris is good for a really bad throw. I'll take 86% chance of success to Las Vegas any day. (Btw, I did not include any pass breakups for under/overthrown balls even if throw was considered to be suspect but catchable.)

If Morris can take a little bit more time on the 3 step drop dump offs to fix the low throws and puts a little more air under his passes on the deep ball, I really think Morris could have a season for the history books next year. 11 TD and Zero INTs in the final four games was pretty impressive. As for whether Morris can be the next Dorsey.... I say let the next season play out and we can revisit these numbers once we have two full years of stats with Morris as the starter.
 
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stat1124 said:
Instead of arguing who was better and where they ranked among the rest of our QBs in the last decade, I would prefer to speculate on how good Morris could be this year. Oh and I brought stats with me too. I rewatched all of the games from 2012 and logged all the drops, low throws and Overthrows. If the bad throw resulted in missed touchdown, the number would be in (*1). {i.e. Drops: 7(*1) would be 7 total drops and one of those drops was in the endzone for a touchdown}

Below is how Stephen Morris performed for 2012.

Stephen Morris: Pass Comp: 245/421 Yards: 3345 CMP %: 58.2 TD: 21 INT: 7 QB Rating: 138.1

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Drops
[/TD]
[TD]Low Throws
[/TD]
[TD]Over Throws
[/TD]
[TD]TD
[/TD]
[TD]INT
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]BC
[/TD]
[TD]7(*1)
[/TD]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]KSU
[/TD]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]BCC
[/TD]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD]2(*2)
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]GT
[/TD]
[TD]4(*1)
[/TD]
[TD]6
[/TD]
[TD]7(*3)
[/TD]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]NCST
[/TD]
[TD]7
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD]3(*2)
[/TD]
[TD]5
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]ND
[/TD]
[TD]6(*2)
[/TD]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD]1(*1)
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]UNC
[/TD]
[TD]6
[/TD]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]FSU
[/TD]
[TD]4
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD]8
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]VT
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD]3(*1)
[/TD]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]UVA
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD]2
[/TD]
[TD]3(*2)
[/TD]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]USF
[/TD]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD]2(*1)
[/TD]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]DUKE
[/TD]
[TD]4
[/TD]
[TD]1
[/TD]
[TD]3(*1)
[/TD]
[TD]3
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]TOTALS
[/TD]
[TD]48 (4 Missed TDs)
[/TD]
[TD]27
[/TD]
[TD]34 (13 Missed TDs)
[/TD]
[TD]21
[/TD]
[TD]7
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Morris was erratic at times, even more than I thought he was. I was chatting with Dwinstiles(sp) about Morris and the fact that he got much better in the last four games with his consistency and these numbers definitely reflect that. However In the last for games, Morris overthrew 5 guys for sure touchdowns. Overall he missed 13 TD opportunities because he has trouble putting a little air under the ball. Out of the 13 overthrows, only 3 were less than 25 yards. Imagine what his passing stats would have been if he connected on just half of those. The ND and UNC game losses along with the NCST were the worse games for our receivers logging over 5 drops/game during that three game stretch.

For having 421 attempts, 61 Errant throws really isn't good but it also isn't all that bad. Averages out to be ~14% of time, Morris is good for a really bad throw. I'll take 86% chance of success to Las Vegas any day. (Btw, I did not include any pass breakups for under/overthrown balls even if throw was considered to be suspect but catchable.)

If Morris can take a little bit more time on the 3 step drop dump offs to fix the low throws and puts a little more air under his passes on the deep ball, I really think Morris could have a season for the history books next year. 11 TD and Zero INTs in the final four games was pretty impressive. As for whether Morris can be the next Dorsey.... I say let the next season play out and we can revisit these numbers once we have two full years of stats with Morris as the starter.
Click to expand...

Try watching the game is a blast...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
stat1124 said:
Instead of arguing who was better and where they ranked among the rest of our QBs in the last decade, I would prefer to speculate on how good Morris could be this year. Oh and I brought stats with me too. I rewatched all of the games from 2012 and logged all the drops, low throws and Overthrows. If the bad throw resulted in missed touchdown, the number would be in (*1). {i.e. Drops: 7(*1) would be 7 total drops and one of those drops was in the endzone for a touchdown}

Below is how Stephen Morris performed for 2012.

Stephen Morris: Pass Comp: 245/421 Yards: 3345 CMP %: 58.2 TD: 21 INT: 7 QB Rating: 138.1

[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Drops[/td]
[td]Low Throws[/td]
[td]Over Throws[/td]
[td]TD[/td]
[td]INT[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]BC[/td]
[td]7(*1)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]KSU[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]BCC[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]2(*2)[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]GT[/td]
[td]4(*1)[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]7(*3)[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]NCST[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]3(*2)[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]ND[/td]
[td]6(*2)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1(*1)[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]UNC[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]FSU[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]VT[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]3(*1)[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]UVA[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]3(*2)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]USF[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]2(*1)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]DUKE[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]3(*1)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]TOTALS[/td]
[td]48 (4 Missed TDs)[/td]
[td]27[/td]
[td]34 (13 Missed TDs)[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Morris was erratic at times, even more than I thought he was. I was chatting with Dwinstiles(sp) about Morris and the fact that he got much better in the last four games with his consistency and these numbers definitely reflect that. However In the last for games, Morris overthrew 5 guys for sure touchdowns. Overall he missed 13 TD opportunities because he has trouble putting a little air under the ball. Out of the 13 overthrows, only 3 were less than 25 yards. Imagine what his passing stats would have been if he connected on just half of those. The ND and UNC game losses along with the NCST were the worse games for our receivers logging over 5 drops/game during that three game stretch.

For having 421 attempts, 61 Errant throws really isn't good but it also isn't all that bad. Averages out to be ~14% of time, Morris is good for a really bad throw. I'll take 86% chance of success to Las Vegas any day. (Btw, I did not include any pass breakups for under/overthrown balls even if throw was considered to be suspect but catchable.)

If Morris can take a little bit more time on the 3 step drop dump offs to fix the low throws and puts a little more air under his passes on the deep ball, I really think Morris could have a season for the history books next year. 11 TD and Zero INTs in the final four games was pretty impressive. As for whether Morris can be the next Dorsey.... I say let the next season play out and we can revisit these numbers once we have two full years of stats with Morris as the starter.
Click to expand...

Great analysis, agree with your points and feel like he can improve on the touch on short throws which should also allow our WR's to do work after the catch. The number of drops is in-excusable from a D1 WR corp.
 
Canesfan1899 said:
stat1124 said:
Instead of arguing who was better and where they ranked among the rest of our QBs in the last decade, I would prefer to speculate on how good Morris could be this year. Oh and I brought stats with me too. I rewatched all of the games from 2012 and logged all the drops, low throws and Overthrows. If the bad throw resulted in missed touchdown, the number would be in (*1). {i.e. Drops: 7(*1) would be 7 total drops and one of those drops was in the endzone for a touchdown}

Below is how Stephen Morris performed for 2012.

Stephen Morris: Pass Comp: 245/421 Yards: 3345 CMP %: 58.2 TD: 21 INT: 7 QB Rating: 138.1

[table="width: 500, class: grid"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Drops[/td]
[td]Low Throws[/td]
[td]Over Throws[/td]
[td]TD[/td]
[td]INT[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]BC[/td]
[td]7(*1)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]KSU[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]BCC[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]2(*2)[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]GT[/td]
[td]4(*1)[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]7(*3)[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]NCST[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]3(*2)[/td]
[td]5[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]ND[/td]
[td]6(*2)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1(*1)[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]UNC[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]FSU[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]VT[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]3(*1)[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]UVA[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]3(*2)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]USF[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]2(*1)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]DUKE[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]3(*1)[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]TOTALS[/td]
[td]48 (4 Missed TDs)[/td]
[td]27[/td]
[td]34 (13 Missed TDs)[/td]
[td]21[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Morris was erratic at times, even more than I thought he was. I was chatting with Dwinstiles(sp) about Morris and the fact that he got much better in the last four games with his consistency and these numbers definitely reflect that. However In the last for games, Morris overthrew 5 guys for sure touchdowns. Overall he missed 13 TD opportunities because he has trouble putting a little air under the ball. Out of the 13 overthrows, only 3 were less than 25 yards. Imagine what his passing stats would have been if he connected on just half of those. The ND and UNC game losses along with the NCST were the worse games for our receivers logging over 5 drops/game during that three game stretch.

For having 421 attempts, 61 Errant throws really isn't good but it also isn't all that bad. Averages out to be ~14% of time, Morris is good for a really bad throw. I'll take 86% chance of success to Las Vegas any day. (Btw, I did not include any pass breakups for under/overthrown balls even if throw was considered to be suspect but catchable.)

If Morris can take a little bit more time on the 3 step drop dump offs to fix the low throws and puts a little more air under his passes on the deep ball, I really think Morris could have a season for the history books next year. 11 TD and Zero INTs in the final four games was pretty impressive. As for whether Morris can be the next Dorsey.... I say let the next season play out and we can revisit these numbers once we have two full years of stats with Morris as the starter.
Click to expand...

Great analysis, agree with your points and feel like he can improve on the touch on short throws which should also allow our WR's to do work after the catch. The number of drops is in-excusable from a D1 WR corp.
Click to expand...

Since you are on a roll with stats...breakdown who dropped the passes and how timely they were....putting the D right back out there..Thanks...it is good info
 
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DMoney said:
By the way, Wright's physical skillset is completely overblown.

He had a "big arm" but couldn't hit a deep ball to save his life. He had speed but couldn't run for one yard against LSU. He had size but played like he was 5'10. The guy was just not a D-1 quarterback.

Jacory, on the other hand, showed the talent to be a good college football quarterback. It wasn't theoretical, he actually had huge games and big plays in big moments. The problem was he didn't do a great job handling the attention and pressure of being The Man, and he had an egomaniac OC that contributed to his decline.
Click to expand...

Jacory could not beat good teams period...OK was a key game they sucked that year OSU sucked, FSU was bad etc...he was a good College QB and thats it...Morris needs the big win as well....not since brock have we had a QB beat a good top 10 team that was a top ten team...JH lost 2 bowl games, one he was a freshman ( acording to miami nites that does not matter)....the second he was bad...the BC game his last was his worst..that sums up Jacory
 
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J12 could have done a lot for his legacy by not throwing those 4 INTs against BC. His time here was still a disappointment, but he put together a very nice senior season.
 
Well if you go by what the talking heads were babbling about on College Gameday this year: they considered an WR corps that averaged 4 or more drops/game as too inconsistent to be a considered productive receiving corp. We average 4 passes/game. They went on to talk about stalled drives and momentum shifts are mostly due to receivers not delivering when the team needs them most from offensive drive standpoint.

Me personally, I think 2 to 3 drops per game isnt the end of the world but in a tight game, it could mean the difference between a go ahead touchdown and a punt to put your inferior (Canes) young defense back on the field. Four passes a game is too many in my opinion.
Consigliere said:
Stat is 48 drops a lot, it sounds like a ton.
Click to expand...
 
Consigliere said:
db305 said:
Consigliere said:
Db305 strongly disagree with almost everything you said.
Click to expand...

we tend to disagree on a lot of things so it's understandable. i'm still far from a morris fan, but he did a lot more last year than i expected.
Click to expand...

That is not why I said that, just see the Jacory picks and deep balls different from you.
Click to expand...

fair enough. is it at least agreeable that freeman was probably the worst starting qb in the post-dorsey era?
 
Last edited:
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Stat I agree.

I think Morris made mistakes, no doubt, but some of these drops were so bad that they are burnt into my head.

I can live with 2 per game but 4 is insane and kills the offense.
 
db305 said:
Consigliere said:
db305 said:
Consigliere said:
Db305 strongly disagree with almost everything you said.
Click to expand...

we tend to disagree on a lot of things so it's understandable. i'm still far from a morris fan, but he did a lot more last year than i expected.
Click to expand...

That is not why I said that, just see the Jacory picks and deep balls different from you.
Click to expand...

fair enough. is it at least agreeable that freeman was probably the worst starting qb since dorsey?
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe his NC state performance may be the worst ever for a QB. More INT then comps, not even Tebag can top that.
 
rokulika said:
J12 could have done a lot for his legacy by not throwing those 4 INTs against BC. His time here was still a disappointment, but he put together a very nice senior season.
Click to expand...

Dont kid yourselves when it comes to Stephen and jacory...

we all wondered what was the difference in JH his senior year?? was it Golden? Or Fisch..I would go with Lamar Miller he allowed JH some time and took games over just like Duke did for Stephen....

A healthy running game helps any QB....they both benefited form two great ones...Lamar should have played since day one...
 
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rokulika said:
16 career starts.

Has thrown for over 300 yards just 4 times.

He's good, but he needs work. A new OC is usually not a great precursor for success.

Let's temper the expectations for the kid. The offense can be great without him needing to do all the work.
Click to expand...

i'm still not a morris fan (yet), but i think he did better than expected last year.

he definitely needs work, especially on touch and consistency, but 300 yard games seems to be an arbitrary metric. dorsey is arguably our best ever and he had 8 career 300 yard games in 40 starts with 5 coming his senior year. i'm not saying that the two are comparable because it really boils down to wins, and ken takes that in spades, but 300 yard games as a measuring stick is iffy to me.
 
DMoney said:
By the way, Wright's physical skillset is completely overblown.

He had a "big arm" but couldn't hit a deep ball to save his life. He had speed but couldn't run for one yard against LSU. He had size but played like he was 5'10. The guy was just not a D-1 quarterback.

Jacory, on the other hand, showed the talent to be a good college football quarterback. It wasn't theoretical, he actually had huge games and big plays in big moments. The problem was he didn't do a great job handling the attention and pressure of being The Man, and he had an egomaniac OC that contributed to his decline.
Click to expand...

He looked Like a D1 QB his sophomore year.
Difference between him and Jacory is that he did not have the coaching to maximize his potential through his SR year.
Jacory's career got saved with Golden/Fisch. Had Shannon stayed, Jacory was on course to having a disaster of end to his career here.
 
Consigliere said:
Stat I agree.

I think Morris made mistakes, no doubt, but some of these drops were so bad that they are burnt into my head.

I can live with 2 per game but 4 is insane and kills the offense.
Click to expand...

ND is a different game if Dorsett catches 1 of the 2 td passes he had in his hands on the first drive. We likely go into the half up and while it likely wouldn't have changed things dramatically it would have at least made the game competitive.
 
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