Interesting discussion on NFL scouts' podcast

[puertorricane]

Hindsight is 20/20, a lot of people call for the recriuting of smaller receivers once they become successful in the NFL or other colleges.
But don't remember many calling for Hilton over Streeter, Johnson and Benjamin.
Or complains when we got Pope, Harley, Thomas, Wiggins or others.
To me our problem has been the QB position and development of the WRs we do get.

 

[theribdoctor]

Right!

And he did it versus everybody. I watched that kid make Dade teams look slow and foolish.
I mean, the kid's name is JOYSTICK for crying out loud.

he was really under utilized in college, but unreal.

 

[ChinstrapCane]

Elijah Moore's made a big mistake leaving Western to go to STA. Moore caught 108 passes his sophomore year at Western and probably didn't catch half as many passes in his two years at STA combined. Moore could have set records for passes caught at Western, and probably been recruited by everyone had he stayed at Western.

 

[DC3]

Look at the size of the other WRs around those guys though. Ole Miss other top 3 guys are over 6 feet and 200 lbs.

We keep beating a dead horse over slot guys. Miami picked Harley and JT4 over Moore and the others.

Miami should only be taking 1-2 guys every other year. But because the grow on trees down there there’s about 5 guys like that per year coming out.

 

[Billy D Williams]

IMO his point is we need to prioritize speedy "playmakers" over big receivers with good speed and limited playmaking abilities. And Yes! I think Malik Curtis and Breshard Smith fit that bill. I checked Mortimer's track times and he is fast and listed at 5'11". According to 247 Miami has made contact. Believe what you want but their is nothing better in football at skill positions than speed.

 

[252cane]

So your response to me is to mention 2 WRs from Bama that exclusively played in the slot + are bigger than 2 of our “starters” and 2 other WRs from OSU were over 6’0? Thanks for proving my point.

6’1 doesn’t qualify as being a big wr. And your point was proven.... proven to be wrong as you usually are.

 

[Billy D Williams]

True. Nobody is saying to turn down those blue chippers. But we aren’t winning those battles with Bama regularly.

Grab the low-hanging NFL fruit and then go big-game hunting.

Right on! Eventually we'll land some Big Game too.

 

[No_Fly_Zone]

Randal Hill, Brian Blades, Eddie Brown, Santana Moss, Roscoe Parrish, Sinorice Moss, Travis Benjamin.... all South Florida WRs under 6' that came in and made meaningful contributions 10+ years ago. Historically, we've been willing to take some shorter, local guys with sizzle at WR (along with the rarer Irvin and Johnson, types).

It's easy to fall in love with length + speed at WR (I thought Pope would be a stud, notwithstanding production question marks). But one of the more eye-opening moments for me on this board was when @Lance Roffers did his breakdown looking for correlation between certain athletic markers and All-Conference players and found the WR position had a low correlation between athletic makeup and making All-Conference. Seems to indicate WR is a spot where production at the HS level may be the greatest predictor of success at the college level.

 

[Billy D Williams]

Zay Flowers was another one. He could have been just as good at CB as he's been at WR.

It's not like he was a late bloomer, either. His highlight reel was a movie and he played with two high-profile teammates:

Never heard of Zay Flowers, but how do you choose all the garbage receivers we've brought in and pass on a DOGG like Zay. He was obviously fast, but when I saw him hit, I knew he was a DOGG!

 

[No_Fly_Zone]

Would these repeated failures fall under the heading of bad evaluations or would they result from just not looking at kids who don't meet a rigid set of physical requirements? I wonder if UM would look at Santana Moss or Roscoe Parrish at this point? It seems like they are becoming a little more flexible as they offered Santana Fleming recently, and he's a smaller receiver.

In my opinion, it's six one way and a half a dozen the other. If a program's height/weight recruiting requirements are so rigid that it results in coaches ignoring legitimate talent at a position, then you have a failure in the evaluation process. It's especially egregious when those height/weight requirements may not actually correlate with success at the position in college.

On the Fleming offer, I have no real insight but it seems like they are basically willing to take one shorter/smaller guy per class at this point. Restrepo in 2020, Smith in 2021, and possibly Fleming in 2022.

 

[Brains]

In my opinion, it's six one way and a half a dozen the other. If a program's height/weight recruiting requirements are so rigid that it results in coaches ignoring legitimate talent at a position, then you have a failure in the evaluation process. It's especially egregious when those height/weight requirements may not actually correlate with success at the position in college.

On the Fleming offer, I have no real insight but it seems like they are basically willing to take one shorter/smaller guy per class at this point. Restrepo in 2020, Smith in 2021, and possibly Fleming in 2022.

If a height/weight requirement is leaking to automatically overlooking players, that's the same thing as saying there is a failure of evaluation. It's fireable.

 

[HighSeas]

You might want to build a system in light of the ongoing local talent. Just a thought.

Yup scheme is a huge component. I'm not a big Atwell fan especially for the NFL but he can definitely run. He's great off play action streaking through zones and he separates easily from college safeties manned up on him in the slot. In the Enos offense he would've been useless but with Lashlee he'd be a more explosive version of Harley.

Elijah Moore is just a total stud who can play inside or outside in any scheme. That's a brutal whiff from a lazy scouting/recruiting job.

 

[gabednconfused]

I was listening to a podcast with two former NFL scouts. At the 8:30 mark, they talk about their favorite Day 2 WR prospects. One picks Elijah Moore, the other picks Tutu Atwell. When they look for comparisons, the names they mention are TY Hilton, Hollywood Brown and John Brown. Of course, all five of those guys are from South Florida. None got UM offers.

We need playmakers and these guys are low-hanging fruit. Don't let any more dynamic, punt returner types out the door.

D$... This post contradicts your post on 'size' in the main board. These are all undersized, mark pope type size players. I mean hollywood brown is 5-9. I don't think UM has done wrong here by not offering some of these guys, they tried, just got the wrong dudes...

 

[Nick_conlan]

Yup scheme is a huge component. I'm not a big Atwell fan especially for the NFL but he can definitely run. He's great off play action streaking through zones and he separates easily from college safeties manned up on him in the slot. In the Enos offense he would've been useless but with Lashlee he'd be a more explosive version of Harley.

Elijah Moore is just a total stud who can play inside or outside in any scheme. That's a brutal whiff from a lazy scouting/recruiting job.

What’s crazy is he wanted to come to Miami too. The next year the same thing happened with kalani Norris out of Columbus and I thought he would follow the same path as Elijah but I don’t think he’s done too much

 

[AK_Cane]

There's always a handful of you guys who try to justify these misses.
But it's not like we've missed on a couple guys. This has been an on-going thing for years. We love letting little explosive WR's leave our backyard.
Sooo many of them have gone on to have successful NCAA and NFL careers. At what point does it become a legitimate concern in yall's eyes? (it's bothered DMoney and I for years, we always talk about this)

And don't give me this **** about how no other big-time programs offered these kids. Those other programs aren't located 10 minutes away from these kids like we are. They can't identify these kids the way Miami can. (they also have bigger fish to fry)
Kids like Tutu Atwell, Elijah Moore and Isaiah McKenzie were no-brainers.

Miami should ALWAYS recruit the most explosive play-maker in it's backyard EVERY YEAR regardless of size or who else is recruiting him.

You can miss me with that "you can't get everybody" nonsense.
GET THE RIGHT ONES!

How does it NOT bother yall to watch Zay Flowers, Tutu Atwell and Elijah Moore make explosive plays every week in college football?
And then literally the very next day you're watching a handful of other South Florida kids doing it in the NFL.

Personally I love watching the Buffalo Bills offense (with their FOUR South Florida kids) run through my Miami Dolphin's defense twice a year.

Truth

 

[DMoney]

D$... This post contradicts your post on 'size' in the main board. These are all undersized, mark pope type size players. I mean hollywood brown is 5-9. I don't think UM has done wrong here by not offering some of these guys, they tried, just got the wrong dudes...

I said the same thing in that thread. At the position of WR, give me guys who can separate and make big plays.

 

[Trav]

Along with Stacey Coley, the best receivers we’ve signed in the past decade are Phillip Dorsett, Braxton Berrios and Mike Harley.

Big WR don’t do you any good if they can’t play. We happen to be located in an area that produces a disproportionate amount of small NFL receivers. Those future pros should be at Miami.

I've never understood the size fetish with WRs. We've historically made a living with smaller guys at WR: Brett Perriman, Randall Hill, Kevin Williams, Jonathan Harris, Santana and Sinorice, Daryl Jones, Al Shipman, Daryl Spencer, Dorsett, etc etc.

 

[Squid Bumciorek]

I think Miami should put top priority on players who can catch the ball, regardless of height, weight, or speed. A 5'8" WR running a 4.7 40 who catches everything that comes near him is more helpful than a 6"4“ athlete running a 4.5 40 who can't even catch a pass that hits him in the middle of his chest.

I've invented an amazing 2 minute test for Likens to screen players out nearly instantly. Get a jugs machine. Fire 30 passes at varying speeds and locations. If a prospective WR candidate drops even one of those passes, tell him to GTFOH.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Evals have been garbage for ages

 

[Cribby]

I said the same thing in that thread. At the position of WR, give me guys who can separate and make big plays.

Footwork is the name of the game. People hear “ separation “ and think that means physicality off the line , beating a jam. If you want to see separation and footwork go watch Antonio vs honey badger on the two yard line in the super bowl. Better yet go watch any Devanta Adam’s game on a Sunday, that dude is impossible to press or guard off the line , the footwork is impeccable:

A 4.3-4.4 guy with sloppy footwork or bad route running is flat out useless. Give me hands , quicks and footwork over straight line speed every day of the week.