If we self-impose, DO IT NOW

[jevoasis]

The extra practices we'd get going to the championship and bowl game would also be key in developing the young players for next season.

 

[LuCane]

Something about facing your bitter rival with an Orange Bowl birth on the line (and yeah, we'll be double digit underdogs, so?), or maybe that our conference really, really doesn't seem to want us to.


Come on, Lu, there are good arguments both ways; it's not an easy decision, either way.

I've tried, man. For real. I really don't think anything measures up even close to wiping the slate clean and giving recruits the feeling (warranted or otherwise) that they're coming into a fresh situation. Bitter rival and an Orange Bowl (especially considering what kind of team I acknowledge we are right now) are shortsighted with the type of program I expect in the next 2-3 years.

You also give up the opportunity for this team to experience what it means to be winners. Winning teams play in games like this before they become winners. It teaches them something. A healthy dose of humble pie perhaps...or, perhaps a healthy dose of "so this is what it takes, to win"...or perhaps something to keep'em hungry going into next year...you are also pushing that ahead one year...a year that might not offer the same opportunity by season's end. Or, ****, it isn't out of the realm of reality that we beat FSU and go to a BCS bowl game.

Learning how to win is something that has been missing from the 'Canes program for the past decade.

I am aware of the pros of the situation and understand if we take the hit, but there are tangible cons to this situation as well...the opportunity may not come again.

Do you realistically think we're going to get off without any other post-season ban? Even if so, is that worth the risk of having that penalty pushed to next year?

I have no idea what is coming.

But, do you think realistically, this opportunity that we are on the doorstep of, is going to be there next year...the year after? VaTech just had their worst season in 20 (TWENTY) years...essentially offering up this opportunity for Miami to get somewhere they've never gone.

We can belittle the opportunity and say how this opportunity is somehow below us (not you, but plenty of people have)...but not this guy.

I think a moment like this is MORE vital to success in the future than simply pushing back a sanction that we don't even know is coming. I think there are sides of this people don't look at, and just think "Well, Miami sucks! Better luck next year!"...yeah, we aren't very good, but we can take something legitimate and substantial from this season that could lead to a resurgence in the program. Is it a guarantee? No. Of course not. But neither is taking a bowl ban and hoping for success in 2013.

That is a tremendously exaggerated argument. Why does the opportunity have to be there "year after year" (a cheap addition) to be relevant to this discussion? You apparently think this "opportunity" is going to somehow make a significant impact on the objective of this program. I don't think the benefits of seizing this "opportunity" outweigh the cost we've already heard from recruits, players concerned about lingering sanctions, and the "state of unknown" that our coaches have mentioned in private and public.

I completely disagree with your last paragraph. Almost every word of that analysis. We're not going to have a meaningful discussion beyond this point because we're simply that far apart on our perspectives, so guess we'll see what happens.

 

[LuCane]

Lu cane,

How many teams have received 2 year post season bans over the last 3 years?

You're presuming we're going to be in line with what they typically do. Aren't you anti-presumptions?

 

[Consigliere]

Lu cane,

How many teams have received 2 year post season bans over the last 3 years?

You're presuming we're going to be in line with what they typically do. Aren't you anti-presumptions?

I am against assumptions and presumptions (most of the time). Just asking a general question. I don't know and I never heard of goo-gul (some search engine).

Do you know the answer? I don't.

 

[maxterofdisaster]

If it simply meant missing a bowl game I'd be in favor of self imposing, but missing out on the ACCCG, a possible BCS birth, and a month worth of additional practices is too much to give up IMO. Despite their ups and downs, the Canes have an opportunity to make this a truly special season.

 

[LuCane]

Lu cane,

How many teams have received 2 year post season bans over the last 3 years?

You're presuming we're going to be in line with what they typically do. Aren't you anti-presumptions?

I am against assumptions and presumptions (most of the time). Just asking a general question. I don't know and I never heard of goo-gul (some search engine).

Do you know the answer? I don't.

USC had a two year bowl ban. That's the situation I've predominantly viewed as our analog.

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

I doubt the University is flying blind in this situation. If they don't take the ban it's probably a really good sign, but I fully expect that they'll take it because I doubt the NCAA will be content with a one year bowl ban.

Just out of curiosity, besides Penn State (and their criminal charges), how many schools over the last five years received a 2 year bowl ban?

USC, off the top of my head, and I can only assume our sanctions will be similar.

 

[Larry]

I've tried, man. For real. I really don't think anything measures up even close to wiping the slate clean and giving recruits the feeling (warranted or otherwise) that they're coming into a fresh situation. Bitter rival and an Orange Bowl (especially considering what kind of team I acknowledge we are right now) are shortsighted with the type of program I expect in the next 2-3 years.

You also give up the opportunity for this team to experience what it means to be winners. Winning teams play in games like this before they become winners. It teaches them something. A healthy dose of humble pie perhaps...or, perhaps a healthy dose of "so this is what it takes, to win"...or perhaps something to keep'em hungry going into next year...you are also pushing that ahead one year...a year that might not offer the same opportunity by season's end. Or, ****, it isn't out of the realm of reality that we beat FSU and go to a BCS bowl game.

Learning how to win is something that has been missing from the 'Canes program for the past decade.

I am aware of the pros of the situation and understand if we take the hit, but there are tangible cons to this situation as well...the opportunity may not come again.

Do you realistically think we're going to get off without any other post-season ban? Even if so, is that worth the risk of having that penalty pushed to next year?

I have no idea what is coming.

But, do you think realistically, this opportunity that we are on the doorstep of, is going to be there next year...the year after? VaTech just had their worst season in 20 (TWENTY) years...essentially offering up this opportunity for Miami to get somewhere they've never gone.

We can belittle the opportunity and say how this opportunity is somehow below us (not you, but plenty of people have)...but not this guy.

I think a moment like this is MORE vital to success in the future than simply pushing back a sanction that we don't even know is coming. I think there are sides of this people don't look at, and just think "Well, Miami sucks! Better luck next year!"...yeah, we aren't very good, but we can take something legitimate and substantial from this season that could lead to a resurgence in the program. Is it a guarantee? No. Of course not. But neither is taking a bowl ban and hoping for success in 2013.

That is a tremendously exaggerated argument. Why does the opportunity have to be there "year after year" (a cheap addition) to be relevant to this discussion? Do you think this "opportunity" is going to somehow make a significant impact on the objective of this program? Worse yet, do the benefits of seizing this "opportunity" outweigh the cost we've already heard from recruits, players concerned about lingering sanctions, and the "state of unknown" that our coaches have mentioned in private and public?

I completely disagree with your last paragraph. Almost every word of that analysis. We're not going to have a meaningful discussion beyond this point because we're simply that far apart on our perspectives, so guess we'll see what happens.

No exaggeration at all. Every national title team of the BCS era took their lumps at some point which ultimately led to said succeess. I discussed this in the WEZ thread. The opportunity needs to come at some point...it is here NOW. You have no idea when it comes again. As for this opportunity being an objective of the program...it has been the objective of this program THIS YEAR to win to win the Coastal...now it is here...and yes, I do believe for the 75+ kids that will benefit from playing in meaningful football games is more significant than a decision of a recruit or two that may or may not come to the University of Miami. An "undeserving" UCLA team went to the Pac12 Title Game last year...they came back in 2012 and are on the precipice of winning the Pac12. Just one, notable and recent example of a similar team taking advantage of the meaningful opportunities.

How you could disagree with tangible experience trumping a bowl ban defies real life common sense. The experience needs to come at some point...you can take it when the opportunity comes or pass on it and hope it comes later...

 

[Consigliere]

Lu cane,

How many teams have received 2 year post season bans over the last 3 years?

You're presuming we're going to be in line with what they typically do. Aren't you anti-presumptions?

I am against assumptions and presumptions (most of the time). Just asking a general question. I don't know and I never heard of goo-gul (some search engine).

Do you know the answer? I don't.

USC had a two year bowl ban. That's the situation I've predominantly viewed as our analog.

Interesting, but that wasn't the answer to my question.

I honestly don't think we're anything like them. I think our stuff is a little weird and not really similar to any of the schools (OSU, UCF, UNC, PSU or USC) who have recently been punished.

I am not going to go into a comparison of what we did and what they did, it is a waste of time.

 

[Consigliere]

I doubt the University is flying blind in this situation. If they don't take the ban it's probably a really good sign, but I fully expect that they'll take it because I doubt the NCAA will be content with a one year bowl ban.

Just out of curiosity, besides Penn State (and their criminal charges), how many schools over the last five years received a 2 year bowl ban?

USC, off the top of my head, and I can only assume our sanctions will be similar.

What about UCF, OSU and UNC?

 

[LuCane]

Lu cane,

How many teams have received 2 year post season bans over the last 3 years?

You're presuming we're going to be in line with what they typically do. Aren't you anti-presumptions?

I am against assumptions and presumptions (most of the time). Just asking a general question. I don't know and I never heard of goo-gul (some search engine).

Do you know the answer? I don't.

USC had a two year bowl ban. That's the situation I've predominantly viewed as our analog.

Interesting, but that wasn't the answer to my question.

I honestly don't think we're anything like them. I think our stuff is a little weird and not really similar to any of the schools (OSU, UCF, UNC, PSU or USC) who have recently been punished.

I am not going to go into a comparison of what we did and what they did, it is a waste of time.

Eh? It's the answer to your question because it's the only one I know of that took a multi-year ban. Obviously, PSU had a slew of bans, but I don't think that's in any way relevant. That's a truly unique scenario. Bottom line: I don't see us getting less than USC. I'm not willing to take the risk.

 

[dolpterry]

Self impose now, these kids new that it could happen. Make Duke our bowl game for pride and future. Recruiting will be made much easier if the incoming freshmen know we have already given up 2 bowl games and a third would be very unlikely.

 

[LuCane]

You also give up the opportunity for this team to experience what it means to be winners. Winning teams play in games like this before they become winners. It teaches them something. A healthy dose of humble pie perhaps...or, perhaps a healthy dose of "so this is what it takes, to win"...or perhaps something to keep'em hungry going into next year...you are also pushing that ahead one year...a year that might not offer the same opportunity by season's end. Or, ****, it isn't out of the realm of reality that we beat FSU and go to a BCS bowl game.

Learning how to win is something that has been missing from the 'Canes program for the past decade.

I am aware of the pros of the situation and understand if we take the hit, but there are tangible cons to this situation as well...the opportunity may not come again.

Do you realistically think we're going to get off without any other post-season ban? Even if so, is that worth the risk of having that penalty pushed to next year?

I have no idea what is coming.

But, do you think realistically, this opportunity that we are on the doorstep of, is going to be there next year...the year after? VaTech just had their worst season in 20 (TWENTY) years...essentially offering up this opportunity for Miami to get somewhere they've never gone.

We can belittle the opportunity and say how this opportunity is somehow below us (not you, but plenty of people have)...but not this guy.

I think a moment like this is MORE vital to success in the future than simply pushing back a sanction that we don't even know is coming. I think there are sides of this people don't look at, and just think "Well, Miami sucks! Better luck next year!"...yeah, we aren't very good, but we can take something legitimate and substantial from this season that could lead to a resurgence in the program. Is it a guarantee? No. Of course not. But neither is taking a bowl ban and hoping for success in 2013.

That is a tremendously exaggerated argument. Why does the opportunity have to be there "year after year" (a cheap addition) to be relevant to this discussion? Do you think this "opportunity" is going to somehow make a significant impact on the objective of this program? Worse yet, do the benefits of seizing this "opportunity" outweigh the cost we've already heard from recruits, players concerned about lingering sanctions, and the "state of unknown" that our coaches have mentioned in private and public?

I completely disagree with your last paragraph. Almost every word of that analysis. We're not going to have a meaningful discussion beyond this point because we're simply that far apart on our perspectives, so guess we'll see what happens.

No exaggeration at all. Every national title team of the BCS era took their lumps at some point which ultimately led to said succeess. I discussed this in the WEZ thread. The opportunity needs to come at some point...it is here NOW. You have no idea when it comes again. As for this opportunity being an objective of the program...it has been the objective of this program THIS YEAR to win to win the Coastal...now it is here...and yes, I do believe for the 75+ kids that will benefit from playing in meaningful football games is more significant than a decision of a recruit or two that may or may not come to the University of Miami. An "undeserving" UCLA team went to the Pac12 Title Game last year...they came back in 2012 and are on the precipice of winning the Pac12. Just one, notable and recent example of a similar team taking advantage of the meaningful opportunities.

How you could disagree with tangible experience trumping a bowl ban defies real life common sense. The experience needs to come at some point...you can take it when the opportunity comes or pass on it and hope it comes later...

Jesus. How obnoxious.

So, in other words, when we go play at FSU next year or we have a "big game," you'll feel better about our chances because this year's team, with its unsettled players still even figuring out the system, would have run through the motions of the ACC Championship and whatever bowl we get, yes?

 

[Consigliere]

You're presuming we're going to be in line with what they typically do. Aren't you anti-presumptions?

I am against assumptions and presumptions (most of the time). Just asking a general question. I don't know and I never heard of goo-gul (some search engine).

Do you know the answer? I don't.

USC had a two year bowl ban. That's the situation I've predominantly viewed as our analog.

Interesting, but that wasn't the answer to my question.

I honestly don't think we're anything like them. I think our stuff is a little weird and not really similar to any of the schools (OSU, UCF, UNC, PSU or USC) who have recently been punished.

I am not going to go into a comparison of what we did and what they did, it is a waste of time.

Eh? It's the answer to your question because it's the only one I know of that took a multi-year ban. Obviously, PSU had a slew of bans, but I don't think that's in any way relevant. That's a truly unique scenario. Bottom line: I don't see us getting less than USC. I'm not willing to take the risk.

Fair enough. I appreciate the fact that you see another side of the argument. I like logical reasoning and you bring it. It is greatly appreciated again.

 

[Jonnyblaze]

The future of the program is what's important and, cold as it is, the seniors on this team are not future. Unless the big wigs are sure in the NCAA would not come down with additional bans, they have to self impose.

 

[Consigliere]

The future of the program is what's important and, cold as it is, the seniors on this team are not future. Unless the big wigs are sure in the NCAA would not come down with additional bans, they have to self impose.

What about the current freshman and sophomores (who will be sophs and juniors)? You know the majority of the starters next year.

Nobody is going to be "sure" and we the fans should be completely "unsure" because of the lack of information. We know for "sure" that a second ban doesn't guaranty anything.

 

[Larry]

Do you realistically think we're going to get off without any other post-season ban? Even if so, is that worth the risk of having that penalty pushed to next year?

I have no idea what is coming.

But, do you think realistically, this opportunity that we are on the doorstep of, is going to be there next year...the year after? VaTech just had their worst season in 20 (TWENTY) years...essentially offering up this opportunity for Miami to get somewhere they've never gone.

We can belittle the opportunity and say how this opportunity is somehow below us (not you, but plenty of people have)...but not this guy.

I think a moment like this is MORE vital to success in the future than simply pushing back a sanction that we don't even know is coming. I think there are sides of this people don't look at, and just think "Well, Miami sucks! Better luck next year!"...yeah, we aren't very good, but we can take something legitimate and substantial from this season that could lead to a resurgence in the program. Is it a guarantee? No. Of course not. But neither is taking a bowl ban and hoping for success in 2013.

That is a tremendously exaggerated argument. Why does the opportunity have to be there "year after year" (a cheap addition) to be relevant to this discussion? Do you think this "opportunity" is going to somehow make a significant impact on the objective of this program? Worse yet, do the benefits of seizing this "opportunity" outweigh the cost we've already heard from recruits, players concerned about lingering sanctions, and the "state of unknown" that our coaches have mentioned in private and public?

I completely disagree with your last paragraph. Almost every word of that analysis. We're not going to have a meaningful discussion beyond this point because we're simply that far apart on our perspectives, so guess we'll see what happens.

No exaggeration at all. Every national title team of the BCS era took their lumps at some point which ultimately led to said succeess. I discussed this in the WEZ thread. The opportunity needs to come at some point...it is here NOW. You have no idea when it comes again. As for this opportunity being an objective of the program...it has been the objective of this program THIS YEAR to win to win the Coastal...now it is here...and yes, I do believe for the 75+ kids that will benefit from playing in meaningful football games is more significant than a decision of a recruit or two that may or may not come to the University of Miami. An "undeserving" UCLA team went to the Pac12 Title Game last year...they came back in 2012 and are on the precipice of winning the Pac12. Just one, notable and recent example of a similar team taking advantage of the meaningful opportunities.

How you could disagree with tangible experience trumping a bowl ban defies real life common sense. The experience needs to come at some point...you can take it when the opportunity comes or pass on it and hope it comes later...

Jesus. How obnoxious.

So, in other words, when we go play at FSU next year or we have a "big game," you'll feel better about our chances because this year's team, with its unsettled players still even figuring out the system, would have run through the motions of the ACC Championship and whatever bowl we get, yes?

It isn't obnoxious, but you're telling me that tangible experience trumps a reactionary escape. Do you just think Miami is all of a suddenly, outtadawoodwerks going to become good in 2014 and 2015 or whatever, after all of this before they play in a meaningful game? And "running through the motions" is exactly what I don't get, its silly and the sobering result of years of Coker/Shannon-ization (or, shall I say Corchization)...who is to say that we can't beat FSU? Miami had a legitimate shot deep into the game against FSU. And, yes, I would feel much more confident in a team that has played in big games before, winning big games than I would with a team that hasn't played in big, meaningful games before. I mean, the last time Miami played in a real "meaningful" game, the kids on the team now were like 9 years old. I could go on a laundry list of teams that benefited from playing in big, meaningful games...but surely, you understand its importance, so it would make it unnecessary. The ACC isn't the SEC where teams have litmus tests a few times a year against the nation's best to determine where they need to go. It is obvious Miami doesn't know what it takes to win big games yet (see: Notre Dame, Kansas State, and Florida State in 2012)...I'd like for the group of 75+ that will be here next year to start learning how to.

You can take that bowl ban this year or next year...whatever your opinion is, but Miami isn't winning until they take the babysteps to get there.

 

[Problem2]

No news yet

Would think if they were going to do it they would have announced it by now

 

[cane305]

we should wait until the end of the duke game.

if we lose, forgo bowl, obviously.

if we win, we must go to the ACC champ game. by doing so, we win the coastal division, which WE HAVE NEVER DONE EVER.

no guarantee we will win the coastal next year with road games at UNC, Vtech, and FSU.

stop the OSU comparisons. we're not going to be that good.

 

[Bigtip]

beat Duke and get a shot at FSU. there is a lot to gain from playing in the champ game and a bowl. huge gains to be made that can only be made by playing it. **** self imposing unless the NCAA has real dirt.

there is no guarantee to win the ACC next year. beat Duke and we are in the game. dont just walk away