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I haven't seen this in a long time

hotshot said:
Dayton is rarely ever bad. Usually in the NCAAT and has a rich hoops legacy, including a couple Final Fours (IIRC) and a number of NIT Championships, back when that Tourney was tough. I don't count that as a bad loss.
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History doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is that they’re 13-7 with really bad losses to Austin Peay, UMass Lowell, and VCU. It’s a bad loss.
 
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...for what its worth, the public explanation...
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...I guess I better do my part and cut down on the negative comments in the Game threads... for fear the NET "guy" reads those to gage "how efficiently we played".
 
jkdood said:
...for what its worth, the public explanation...
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...I guess I better do my part and cut down on the negative comments in the Game threads... for fear the NET "guy" reads those to gage "how efficiently we played".
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So they make all the rules and judge you as they see fit.

All metrics are garbage if they only take into account their own metric.
 
On KenPom, we have a better SoS than VT (ours is 42 and theirs is 43).

They are 10-10 and we are 15-5… and they are ranked 17 spots above us. Not to mention beating them them heads up at their house.

Algorithms aren’t stupid… just the arrogance of the people who create them.
 
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NC_Canes_11 said:
So they make all the rules and judge you as they see fit.

All metrics are garbage if they only take into account their own metric.
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"points per possession"? what whacky (but interesting) concept. Hard to get my brain around the concept.
 
jkdood said:
View attachment 174644
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I get the emphasis on PPP on both sides, but not putting enough emphasis on records and who you beat head to head makes no sense. But that’s all about SOS too. And I’ve always felt the SOS which has now turned into strength of wins/losses and several other things, has always been flawed as well. It’s like the SEC circle jerk during football season. Rank everyone and then claim your SOS is the best.
 
NC_Canes_11 said:
I get the emphasis on PPP on both sides, but not putting enough emphasis on records and who you beat head to head makes no sense. But that’s all about SOS too. And I’ve always felt the SOS which has now turned into strength of wins/losses and several other things, has always been flawed as well. It’s like the SEC circle jerk during football season. Rank everyone and then claim your SOS is the best.
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Well even the SOS is based on the PPP of those opps... I know its supposed to be "easy to understand"... but... if we steal the ball 10 times but convert only 5 of those times for points ( yes we see this far too often than i care to admit), we are MUCH worse off than a team that steals the ball just twice and scores both times. WOW!

(updt, i might be wrong, but I think our "points off turnovers" generally looks bleak when they show that stat)

(updt2: a little checking and more thought... seems we do get extra frenetic when we steal... often giving the ball right back or getting no return when a well- orchestrated offensive attack does NOT follow. Only just now did I realize how this was killing our NET!!)
 
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Miami is still as low in the NET/Kenpom/Torvik as it is because of the non-conference. It's not just that we lost to Alabama, it's that we lost to Alabama by 32 points. It's not just that we lost to Dayton, it's that we lost to Dayton by 16 points. The only 'good' wins are a 6 points neutral court win over North Texas and a 5 point win at Penn State - neither of which are likely tourney teams. And then there are very few absolute blowouts against our cupcakes. FAU is actually technically a Q2 game at this moment (will probably be a Q3 game at the end of the year), but we only won that game by 2 points. Fordham is a below average A10 team, and we only beat them by 6. Stetson and Canisius are bad this season, but those were only 10 point wins. The only legitimate blow out games were FAMU and Lipscomb - two more terrible teams.

You can separate a team's conference and non-conference performance on Torvik. On Torvik, Miami is currently rated 62nd for the season. But if you only take into account conference play, Miami has been the 33rd best team in the country. On the flipside, just looking at the non-conference portion, Miami rated as the 106th best team in the country. This team is certainly closer to the former than the latter, but it is taking time to overcome where we started.

That also explains why Virginia Tech is as high in the NET ratings as they are. They rated as the 15th best team in NC play per Torvik, but 106th in the nation so far solely off of their performance in conference.
 
jkdood said:
Well even the SOS is based on the PPP of those opps... I know its supposed to be "easy to understand"... but... if we steal the ball 10 times but convert only 5 of those times for points ( yes we see this far too often than i care to admit), we are MUCH worse off than a team that steals the ball just twice and scores both times. WOW!

(updt, i might be wrong, but I think our "points off turnovers" generally looks bleak when they show that stat)

(updt2: a little checking and more thought... seems we do get extra frenetic when we steal... often giving the ball right back or getting no return when a well- orchestrated offensive attack does NOT follow. Only just now did I realize how this was killing our NET!!)
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Our offense efficiency isn’t even the problem… it’s our defensive efficiency that is killing us in the rankings.

I’m guessing that an offensive rebound is not considered a new possession so the offensive rebounds are really hurting our defensive efficiency numbers.

Obviously a flaw in the algorithm because we are winning games the algorithms consistently predict us to lose.
 
jkdood said:
Well even the SOS is based on the PPP of those opps... I know its supposed to be "easy to understand"... but... if we steal the ball 10 times but convert only 5 of those times for points ( yes we see this far too often than i care to admit), we are MUCH worse off than a team that steals the ball just twice and scores both times. WOW!

(updt, i might be wrong, but I think our "points off turnovers" generally looks bleak when they show that stat)

(updt2: a little checking and more thought... seems we do get extra frenetic when we steal... often giving the ball right back or getting no return when a well- orchestrated offensive attack does NOT follow. Only just now did I realize how this was killing our NET!!)
Click to expand...
Guess they don't publish the PPP (might be nice if they did) but some thought might surface that:
...when we launch a perimeter shot (that doesn't go in) and we are getting back in transition by design so much that we almost never get an offensive rebound... what a LOW PPP we must have from that... another way to look at it is think of the opps that get 2-3-4 chances at times "points off second chances")... so their Single possession shooting may be 1 for 4, but THEIR PPP is 100%! I wonder if Coach L knows all this 2018 NET-nutty stuff? "L"-O-"L".
 
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jmandel9 said:
FSU loss to G Tech hurt us in the Kenpom. We were in the 50s and when they lost we dropped down to 62.
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Tall about a Catch-22... so we can root for FSU and Duke to lose more games, so we can potentially win the ACCRegular season... but our pom-pom will NET fall and fail. Sigh.
 
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www.espn.com

Men's Bracketology: It's official, the SEC is a juggernaut

For the first time in a long, long time, a team not named Kansas is the top overall seed. Instead, it's Auburn, as the SEC takes over the bracket.
www.espn.com

New Lunardi is out. Moved us up a spot to a 9 seed.

Across the rest of the ACC, Duke is a 2, Wake is 8, FSU is 9, and UNC is a 12 (in one of the play-in games). ND is currently bubble-out.
 
Gables Canes said:
www.espn.com

Men's Bracketology: It's official, the SEC is a juggernaut

For the first time in a long, long time, a team not named Kansas is the top overall seed. Instead, it's Auburn, as the SEC takes over the bracket.
www.espn.com

New Lunardi is out. Moved us up a spot to a 9 seed.

Across the rest of the ACC, Duke is a 2, Wake is 8, FSU is 9, and UNC is a 12 (in one of the play-in games). ND is currently bubble-out.
Click to expand...
Why VT win was big. If we had lost, he'd have us on the bubble or worse.
 
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