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How I envision a 3-4 defensive front like Bama's looking at the U...

KingB02 said:
Bruh!!!!!! You don’t run out there with 210 OLBs in the 3-4!! EVER!!! They’re basically DE’s that rush from two point stand!! Minimum 240 at that spot and they have to be long athletes as well. Yes they have to be quick but not small and quick. They would get blown off the line and parked into the nosebleeds lol
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Kelly is already listed at 240. Moss is listed at 220, but he's 6'6 w/long limbs. He can bulk up to 250 w/in a couple years. That would probably be about his target weight anyway.
 
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McKenzieMoore said:
E - Shemar Stewart
NT - Jayson Jones
E - Leonard Taylor
OLB - Nyalik Kelly
OLB - Cyrus Moss
ILB - Wesley Bissainthe
ILB - Terrence Lewis

More of a wet dream than a vision right now, but possible.
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So you got 4 freshman starting and 2 of them are currently 20-30 pounds under weight for his position. Then there’s guy that’s probably isn’t even going to be here under Mario. My lord…
 
Zbrod95 said:
I did a whole thing on how it would actually look. 5 million times better.
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There are pros and cons to each approach, and even the possibility of running multiple fronts. But we simply do not have the personnel at this time to run a 3-4 base, and we don't have NFL free agency either. How many coaches have been fired after several years of unsuccessfully trying to convert from a 4-3 to a 3-4 or vice versa?
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
There are pros and cons to each approach, and even the possibility of running multiple fronts. But we simply do not have the personnel at this time to run a 3-4 base, and we don't have NFL free agency either. How many coaches have been fired after several years of unsuccessfully trying to convert from a 4-3 to a 3-4 or vice versa?
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See that’s the problem with everybody’s thinking. 3-4 D’s don’t stay in 3-4 anymore. They’re hybrid fronts meant to to confuse an O and force them to account for every personnel. I built the depth chart for it. We’re not that bad of shape depth wise at every position. Just the interior but if we get Moten, Jones, and Stewart(or another body) to go with Big Lich then we’re more than ok. Lich isn’t a 3-tech. You don’t take him unless you’re planning to run 3-4 like he ran at USC.
 
Zbrod95 said:
See that’s the problem with everybody’s thinking. 3-4 D’s don’t stay in 3-4 anymore. They’re hybrid fronts meant to to confuse an O and force them to account for every personnel. I built the depth chart for. We’re not that bad of shape depth wise at every position. Just the interior but if we get Moten, Jones, and Stewart(or another body) to go with Big Lich then we’re more than ok. Lich isn’t a 3-tech. You don’t take him unless you’re planning to run 3-4 like he ran at USC.
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Again, the "D-line" side of the equation is a bit easier, if you go from 4 to 3, and you find the right NT, then you are pretty far along in the transition. But if you try to go from 3 LBs to 4 LBs, after a period of MASSIVE incompetence in the recruiting and development of the LBs, then you have a serious problem. And it isn't just fixed with moving James Williams up from S to LB, because because because he's tall. I've seen his family, they are all tall and skinny, so for guys to just sit here and project "yeah, he can add XX pounds" is really not a great way of making a position switch.

Also, the guy from USC will be here for a year, maybe two (he was in the 2017 USC signing class), and he has been injured for most of his career, so it's not like we are building our D-line around him. We could build around a future signee, maybe. He played well in 2021 but he didn't play much for the preceding 4 years:

2020: Lichtenstein opted out of the first 4 games of his sophomore season as a defensive lineman but returned to the team for the final 2 games of 2020, however he did not see any action.

2019: Lichtenstein sat out the 2019 season as a sophomore defensive lineman while recovering from a 2018 post-season knee injury. He had 2019 post-season surgery for a sports hernia. After the season, he was granted a sixth year of eligibility by the NCAA for medical reasons.

2018: Lichtenstein saw action in 11 games (all but Notre Dame) and started twice (Oregon State, California) on the defensive line as a redshirt freshman in 2018. Overall in 2018, he had 15 tackles, including 2 for losses of 4 yards, and a deflection. He hurt his shoulder at UCLA and missed the Notre Dame game. He had 3 tackles against UNLV, a tackle at Texas, 2 tackles (1 for a loss) against Arizona State, 6 tackles (1 for a loss) and a deflection against California and 3 tackles at UCLA. He had post-season knee cartilage surgery.

2017: Lichtenstein redshirted as a first-year freshman defensive lineman in 2017. He injured his left calf prior to the Stanford game and was sidelined for the next 2 games (Stanford, Texas).



I will be rooting for this kid, and if he performs like Jaelan did, it will be a great story. I just don't think we are quite ready for a full 3-4 conversion. You may be right about DLs, particularly if we get another transfer and/or Jeffrey M'ba from JuCo, but I am far less convinced that we are 3-4-ready at LB.
 
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McKenzieMoore said:
Kelly is already listed at 240. Moss is listed at 220, but he's 6'6 w/long limbs. He can bulk up to 250 w/in a couple years. That would probably be about his target weight anyway.
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I know that, but this man was talking about K Smith at LOLB in a 3-4!! He ain’t even big enough to be a 4-3 weakside LB lmao
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Oh, good lord, the same twelve 3-4 mental-*********or porsters have joined together for another thread.

What part of "we do not have the personnel to run a 3-4 and we wouldn't for years" can't people understand?

And before the "but, but, but, multiple, bro" nitwits jump in to defend the 3-4, let's make it clear that we have already been utilizing three down linemen at times. Just not as our base package, not only on the field, but also in how we recruit and build our roster.

So many "but I watch tape, bro, and it will work, dude" rocket scientists on this board...
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My post is speculative and I make a case for how current/projected personnel would fit the scheme.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
Again, the "D-line" side of the equation is a bit easier, if you go from 4 to 3, and you find the right NT, then you are pretty far along in the transition. But if you try to go from 3 LBs to 4 LBs, after a period of MASSIVE incompetence in the recruiting and development of the LBs, then you have a serious problem. And it isn't just fixed with moving James Williams up from S to LB, because because because he's tall. I've seen his family, they are all tall and skinny, so for guys to just sit here and project "yeah, he can add XX pounds" is really not a great way of making a position switch.

Also, the guy from USC will be here for a year, maybe two (he was in the 2017 USC signing class), and he has been injured for most of his career, so it's not like we are building our D-line around him. We could build around a future signee, maybe. He played well in 2021 but he didn't play much for the preceding 4 years:

2020: Lichtenstein opted out of the first 4 games of his sophomore season as a defensive lineman but returned to the team for the final 2 games of 2020, however he did not see any action.

2019: Lichtenstein sat out the 2019 season as a sophomore defensive lineman while recovering from a 2018 post-season knee injury. He had 2019 post-season surgery for a sports hernia. After the season, he was granted a sixth year of eligibility by the NCAA for medical reasons.

2018: Lichtenstein saw action in 11 games (all but Notre Dame) and started twice (Oregon State, California) on the defensive line as a redshirt freshman in 2018. Overall in 2018, he had 15 tackles, including 2 for losses of 4 yards, and a deflection. He hurt his shoulder at UCLA and missed the Notre Dame game. He had 3 tackles against UNLV, a tackle at Texas, 2 tackles (1 for a loss) against Arizona State, 6 tackles (1 for a loss) and a deflection against California and 3 tackles at UCLA. He had post-season knee cartilage surgery.

2017: Lichtenstein redshirted as a first-year freshman defensive lineman in 2017. He injured his left calf prior to the Stanford game and was sidelined for the next 2 games (Stanford, Texas).



I will be rooting for this kid, and if he performs like Jaelan did, it will be a great story. I just don't think we are quite ready for a full 3-4 conversion. You may be right about DLs, particularly if we get another transfer and/or M'ba from JuCo, but I am far less convinced that we are 3-4-ready at LB.
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I would not worry so much about the kid from USC and the injuries. Injuries are most often due to bad luck. You can train all you want but if it’s meant to be it shall be (example JJ Watt). Let it play out. As far as Williams is concerned, he is already 220 as a freshman. Kid was starving himself to keep his weight down so he could play safety! I don’t care how his family members look, they are not in a college strength program lol. If we wanted to move buddy we could and he would ball wherever we put him. Also, we could easily move to a 3-4 if we had a big enough body at DT. We have plenty of twitchy OLB types and the inside LB guys would be okay if the DT could free them. We could portal for a thumper in the middle. The rest of the guys could fight for the other spot, or move Williams in one spot and play either Smith at the other. Uber athletic defense that will run and hit and cover. Just need another corner. Play the best athletes. Football is getting to position less as it will ever be for the back 7 on defense. All 7 we would have would be former DBs plus if we were to pull Moss and he got in, that’s 8 former DBs! Old school Miami feel with a modern look. Very similar to Tampa’s defense.
 
simplycanes said:
You cannot say 3-4 without summoning @Coach Macho
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magic carpet aladdin GIF by Disney
 
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Did some of you forget Aranda's final year at Wisconsin? Where they finished #1 in scoring defense even after facing Bama? He was rolling out a NT that was 275 lbs. If you get a coach who teaches good fundamentals/techniques all while concocting effective schemes and strategies, you can run any alignment you want. We've had such bad coaching here for so long in all phases of the game that we forget what the alternative is like.
 
A lot of the names rumored to be high on Mario Christobal's DC wish list are odd front guys.

Not that it makes a huge difference because most coordinators are multiple now and position flexibility is prioritized for a lot of defensive players today. Alabama's MIKE and WILL (Inside lbs) are listed at 228lbs and 232lb respectively, so the idea that you need huge dudes there is outdated. Their NTs are between 300-310 lbs too. That 350lb dude who just clogs running lanes and eats space isn't really a thing these days.


The only position I'd be really worried about if they made a switch to 3-3-5 would be the ILB playing opposite Chase Smith. Would they keep Keontra Smith at WILL? Or would they start a freshman (Bisanthe) there? Honestly, that spot is the biggest question mark regardless of what type of defense they play. Otherwise, personnel isn't an issue.
 
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DTP said:
A lot of the names rumored to be high on Mario Christobal's DC wish list are odd front guys.

Not that it makes a huge difference because most coordinators are multiple now and position flexibility is prioritized for a lot of defensive players today. Alabama's MIKE and WILL (Inside lbs) are listed at 228lbs and 232lb respectively, so the idea that you need huge dudes there is outdated. Their NTs are between 300-310 lbs too. That 350lb dude who just clogs running lanes and eats space isn't really a thing these days.


The only position I'd be really worried about if they made a switch to 3-3-5 would be the ILB playing opposite Chase Smith. Would they keep Keontra Smith at WILL? Or would they start a freshman (Bisanthe) there? Honestly, that spot is the biggest question mark regardless of what type of defense they play. Otherwise, personnel isn't an issue.
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We actually have some nearly perfect players for that 4i spot. And, if we get Jayson Jones, despite what we've seen and people have said about Jordan Miller, we'd be ok at the 0 - whether it's head up or shaded. The key here is to remain a defense with 1-gap principles.
 
LuCane said:
We actually have some nearly perfect players for that 4i spot. And, if we get Jayson Jones, despite what we've seen and people have said about Jordan Miller, we'd be ok at the 0 - whether it's head up or shaded. The key here is to remain a defense with 1-gap principles.
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JHH and Elijah Roberts are tailor made for that 4i DE position. Of course Leonard Taylor would kill it there as well. At 0, it would really help if Silvera came back because a combination of him, Miller and Haye would be suitable. On passing downs you could line up one of the ends inside
 
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