Hiring a head coach who's a "recruiter"

[McGahee2TheHouse]

I don't think people are downplaying his ability to sell. I think people are placing more importance on filling a PC slot with someone who can actually coach the position, rather than just sell Miami.

Nobody on here knows whether he can actually coach the position. Alabama's OL looked pretty good smashing LSU on Saturday. So a segment of Alabama fans don't like him. OK. The coaches at Alabama like him, Nick Saban likes him, and the Alabama AD pays him a ton.

The fact that people are so passionately against him as a position coach bugs me because it confirms what I've suspected: people are just ****-bent on whining about ****.

One game doesn't mean anything. Our own DL has looked "pretty good" at times. Are you going to sit here and tell me that our DL is well coached?

I really don't know how you can make the statement that no one knows whether he can coach the position. By all accounts, Bama's OL has suffered since Cristobal has become the OL coach.

 

[CanesAreAble]

The fact that people are so passionately against him as a position coach bugs me because it confirms what I've suspected: people are just ****-bent on whining about ****.

I'll be the first to admit I don't know the intricacies of a position coach, but his 2006 line was not good. That's obviously not all on him, but I don't have much else to go on. How were his Rutgers lines? As for Bama, whether or not their fans' complaints are irrational, it seems as though the line isn't performing as well as it did under Stoutland.

 

[252cane]

I don't think people are downplaying his ability to sell. I think people are placing more importance on filling a PC slot with someone who can actually coach the position, rather than just sell Miami.

Nobody on here knows whether he can actually coach the position. Alabama's OL looked pretty good smashing LSU on Saturday. So a segment of Alabama fans don't like him. OK. The coaches at Alabama like him, Nick Saban likes him, and the Alabama AD pays him a ton.

The fact that people are so passionately against him as a position coach bugs me because it confirms what I've suspected: people are just ****-bent on whining about ****.

This fan base is soft as **** man. They dismiss every coach. Charlie strong can't coach now when they all was talking about how he would kill it here when he was at louisville. Chud can't coach despite being in the nfl for 12 years. They worshiped the ground golden walked on for years and now they know what a good coach is lol.

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

I don't think people are downplaying his ability to sell. I think people are placing more importance on filling a PC slot with someone who can actually coach the position, rather than just sell Miami.

Nobody on here knows whether he can actually coach the position. Alabama's OL looked pretty good smashing LSU on Saturday. So a segment of Alabama fans don't like him. OK. The coaches at Alabama like him, Nick Saban likes him, and the Alabama AD pays him a ton.

The fact that people are so passionately against him as a position coach bugs me because it confirms what I've suspected: people are just ****-bent on whining about ****.

This fan base is soft as **** man. They dismiss every coach. Charlie strong can't coach now when they all was talking about how he would kill it here when he was at louisville. Chud can't coach despite being in the nfl for 12 years. They worshiped the ground golden walked on for years and now they know what a good coach is lol.

lol wut

 

[onplane]

So Golden failed at recruiting? Stupid post of the year IMO. How many coaches put 7 draftees in the NFL last year. That while struggling with NCAA violations. If you want to argue that Golden failed in cutting coordinators who were not performing I would agree with you but not on recruiting. We have some outstanding talent on this team and he certainly left more talent then what he had to work with coming in.

Posted this about a week ago in the WEZ, but thought I would re-post here in light of the Cristobal talk.



First of all, I think there are three components to recruiting that all get lumped under the "recruiting" umbrella:

1. Philosophy -- What type of player are you after? Do you prioritize measurables or intangibles? What's the sliding scale between the two, etc...?
2. Evaluation -- Can you identify talent based on crappy camcorder footage against crappy competition with crappy coaching?
3. Selling -- Can you convince your targets to come to your school?

When people say recruiting, I think they generally mean selling, but that isn't as important as the other two factors, especially evaluating (the most crucial part, IMO).

How much selling do people think the head coach actually does? Yes, the head coach establishes a brand, and yes the head coach uses his allowable contact to close the deal, but the legwork is done by the position coaches and the administrative staff.

The head coach's main responsibility in recruiting is determining a philosophy and evaluating talent properly. This is where Golden failed. He de-emphasized speed. He wanted big LBs and traditional 3-4 D-linemen. D'Onofrio was cut from the same cloth, and we saw that video footage of the staff recruiting powwow:

[video=youtube;OUNDZkWYqjA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUNDZkWYqjA[/video]

Now supposedly the player in question went to Bucknell or some ****. FOH. And Golden's camp offers were filled with guys that washed out quickly. Terrible philosophy and terrible evaluation.


Now this brings me to Wario Cristobal. He keeps getting mentioned as an ace recruiter. "Miami would clean up in South Florida if they hire him," blah blah blah.

Again, the head coach's main job is evaluating. So what proof is there that Cristobal knows how to evaluate talent? Supposedly he didn't even want T.Y. Hilton when he was at FIU. Someone practically twisted his arm. If true, that certainly doesn't inspire confidence.

He may be a great salesman (which is debatable), but that's irrelevant if he's selling the wrong guys. Let's not forget Al Golden was a master salesman. IIRC Tom Lemming rated him the best recruiter in the country. James Coley is considered a great salesman as well. It doesn't matter if you can't win because of poor evals and poor coaching/development.

Hire a coach who can evaluate talent and use it properly. Hire a coach who's smart enough to have good salesmen on his staff. Win games.


Winning is the best "recruiting" tool.

 

[DMoney]

I really don't know how you can make the statement that no one knows whether he can coach the position. By all accounts, Bama's OL has suffered since Cristobal has become the OL coach.

By what accounts? This is the type of thing I'm talking about. From what I can see, their pass blocking got better and their run blocking got worse.

Here are the numbers from the three years before Cristobal and his first three years:

QB Sack percentage:

Before Cristobal:

2010- 105th
2011- 45th
2012- 92nd

With Cristobal:

2013- 38th
2014- 15th
2015- 52nd

Rushing yards per attempt

Before Cristobal:

2010- 23rd
2011- 4th
2012- 9th

With Cristobal:

2013- 8th
2014- 29th
2015- 49th

That doesn't really tell me anything. And I suspect their struggles this year have a lot to do with injuries to their best player (Cam Robinson) and three new starters.

 

[CanesAreAble]

So Golden failed at recruiting? Stupid post of the year IMO. How many coaches put 7 draftees in the NFL last year. That while struggling with NCAA violations. If you want to argue that Golden failed in cutting coordinators who were not performing I would agree with you but not on recruiting. We have some outstanding talent on this team and he certainly left more talent then what he had to work with coming in.

The post wasn't even about Golden. Jesus.

 

[561Cane]

The two best programs and coaches today are Saban and Meyer. Why? They will sell 1,000 pound block of ice to an Eskimo! They lie and flat out cold. Will do whatever it takes to get a kid to commit.

For those that weren't around to see Butch in action back in 90's, well let's just say that he could go toe to toe with anyone. So in my opinion, I'll take evaluation and salesmanship to land the top kids these days...

 

[stormbrewing]

Just like everyone else, I'm sick of seeing our Canes suffer in football ****, I'm not sure how Mario would handle being the main guy at UM..
But I think we will be back to banners and Emails to the AD/Prez/BOT and a major disconnect between fans and the team

 

[252cane]

I don't think people are downplaying his ability to sell. I think people are placing more importance on filling a PC slot with someone who can actually coach the position, rather than just sell Miami.

Nobody on here knows whether he can actually coach the position. Alabama's OL looked pretty good smashing LSU on Saturday. So a segment of Alabama fans don't like him. OK. The coaches at Alabama like him, Nick Saban likes him, and the Alabama AD pays him a ton.

The fact that people are so passionately against him as a position coach bugs me because it confirms what I've suspected: people are just ****-bent on whining about ****.

This fan base is soft as **** man. They dismiss every coach. Charlie strong can't coach now when they all was talking about how he would kill it here when he was at louisville. Chud can't coach despite being in the nfl for 12 years. They worshiped the ground golden walked on for years and now they know what a good coach is lol.

lol wut

Calling him the don, saying he just gets it. And when miami was 7-0 in 2013 the **** was out of hand how people was riding him despite the team playing horrible in almost all those games. And talking about how great his hair was.

 

[252cane]

So Golden failed at recruiting? Stupid post of the year IMO. How many coaches put 7 draftees in the NFL last year. That while struggling with NCAA violations. If you want to argue that Golden failed in cutting coordinators who were not performing I would agree with you but not on recruiting. We have some outstanding talent on this team and he certainly left more talent then what he had to work with coming in.

The post wasn't even about Golden. Jesus.

Golden was a average recruiter.

 

[Cribby]

What was Alabama's recruiting ranked before Mario?

I think they'd be number one with or without him

That program recruits itself.

Then why did Saban go out and sign Mario for a ton of money?

Because he can, he's greedy, and has the budget to pay a guy to grab 1-2 south floroda kids a year . That's pretty much his gig.

Mario is making out like a bandit, especially for how good of a coach he is.

I'm not hating on him, he's just not qualified for the UM job. Not even close.

 

[daddacane]

If he was so good at FIU how come the 27-47 record..

 

[FullyERicht]

What was Alabama's recruiting ranked before Mario?

I think they'd be number one with or without him

That program recruits itself.

According to Rivals:

2008: #1
2009: #1
2010: #5
2011: #1
2012: #1

Lmfao I mean it's laughable. As I said easiest job in world is being a recruiter for Bama.

 

[mdhhdm]

Now this brings me to Wario Cristobal. He keeps getting mentioned as an ace recruiter. "Miami would clean up in South Florida if they hire him," blah blah blah.

Again, the head coach's main job is evaluating. So what proof is there that Cristobal knows how to evaluate talent? Supposedly he didn't even want T.Y. Hilton when he was at FIU. Someone practically twisted his arm. If true, that certainly doesn't inspire confidence

I've asked this question at least once in another thread, but apparently people who question the Great Cristobal's "recruiting prowess" are "*****ing just to *****" and are being "willfully ignorant."

From what I've seen, Mario has not shown any special ability to recruit or evaluate talent. No one is saying that he should have recruited his way to going 74-0 at FIU, but it is borderline absurd to say that someone has such "recruiting prowess" when he failed as hard as he did at FIU and only can point to his recruiting ability at a school which can pretty much recruits itself at this point.

Failed miserably at FIU? He got them to a bowl game and had a better staff than our schmucks. Oh yeah, FIU has been great since Mario and was a dynamo before him. Pete Garcia is a buffoon and never should have fired him (EGOS)

 

[DMoney]

Lmfao I mean it's laughable. As I said easiest job in world is being a recruiter for Bama.

So why did Saban pay big money to hire him? You never answered this question.

 

[daddacane]

If he was so good at FIU how come the 27-47 record..

 

[DMoney]

I'm not hating on him, he's just not qualified for the UM job. Not even close.

No doubt. He should not be our head coach.

But if Butch wanted to bring him in as an OL coach (which is what we've been talking about), it makes plenty of sense. No idea why people are arguing so passionately against it.

 

[NVA CANE]

Agreed that evaluation and direction are more important than selling.

But I wouldn't discount the value of selling, either. Urban Meyer attacked recruiting battles like they were games. His 2008 Gator team was loaded with out of state blue chippers.

One thing I like about Herman is that he seems to embrace that part of the job.

Is Herman in the conversation? Please tell me the search committee is reaching out to him and seriously considering him?

I don't think Mario leaves bama for the same position at Miami. He would require a bigger title and more responsibility IMO. I can't argue whether his Oline coaching is good or not cause I don't know but I know bama fans ain't happy with it.

 

[DMoney]

Agreed that evaluation and direction are more important than selling.

But I wouldn't discount the value of selling, either. Urban Meyer attacked recruiting battles like they were games. His 2008 Gator team was loaded with out of state blue chippers.

One thing I like about Herman is that he seems to embrace that part of the job.

Is Herman in the conversation? Please tell me the search committee is reaching out to him and seriously considering him?

No idea. But I'd be shocked if Blake didn't take a long look at him.