Official Gus Edwards - (Currently a bshaw28 thread)

[bshaw28]

It's absolutely the OL, a RBs performance is almost exclusively dependent on their performance in the NFL. In College, only a **** O-Line ruins your RB, if its somewhat average, thats enough for your RB if the talent level is decent.

Edwards has had the luck that he plays for the Ravens and their O-Line from 2018-now has been one of the best run blocking units in the league.

Having Lamar in that aspect also helps, btw.

In Gus's defense - the Ravens OL & Lamar no question contribute to his success, but they shouldn't undermine the fact that he's just been really good.

Here's Ravens RB's with 100+ carries YPC since Gus's 2018 rookie season:

JK Dobbins - 5.8
Gus Edwards - 5.2
Mark Ingram - 4.8
Kenyan Drake - 4.4
Justice Hill - 4.3
Devonta Freeman - 4.3
Latavius Murray - 4.3
Alex Collins - 3.6

Gus has outplayed plenty of other talented RB's. This isn't a "stick any RB in the Ravens backfield, and you'll get the same good results" situation.

 

[mirvin88]

So much of Walton's "talent" was narrative driven IMO. I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks Walton was better than Yearby & Gus. I always said it was a personal preference thing. But thinking Walton was MUCH better than Yearby & Gus never made sense, especially since Yearby consistently outplayed Walton.

2015 season stats when Yearby was the starter over Walton.

View attachment 258355

Yearby was clearly the better rusher & the receiving was pretty much the same.

But enter Richt & Thomas - and who got promoted to the starting RB when Spring practice started in 2016? Walton. Who did Richt & Thomas recruit at Georgia? Walton.

So I view that as coaches playing a favorite, and Walton not earning the starting spot. But at the time Richt/Thomas was coming off of coaching Todd Gurley, Nick Chubb, Sony Michel - so why would you question any of Richt's offensive decisions?


The Result? Well...here's their number after the first 4 ACC games in 2016

View attachment 258360

Yearby was CLEARLY outplaying Walton. Gus & Homer (who you're right - was a true Freshman) weren't being used at all.

Question: So what happened half-way through the 2016 season when Yearby complained to Richt about being behind Walton who he was clearly outplaying?

Answer: Yearby moved to the bench the 2nd half of the season and his carries went to Gus, who wasn't being used at all up to that point

In Walton's defense, he did average 5.3 ypc from this point through the rest of the 6 games in the 2016 season. But so much of Walton's legend was built off of beating up on FAU, Bethune-Cookman, Toledo, etc. - big numbers vs cupcake teams.

But why did Walton's 6 games where he averaged 5.3 ypc erase the memory of Walton averaging 3.1 ypc vs his first 15 P5 opponents? That's still a mystery.

Walton was below average.

 

[passitback]

I actually met his HS coach when he was on vacation down here. He said the same thing. Best hs rb he’s ever seen.

Man amongst children is how I heard it.

 

[bshaw28]

Walton was below average.

I agree - and the stats back that up.

IMO there was a perfect storm of circumstances & reasons as to why Walton was hyped up so much - and Gus & Yearby sort of became victims of that hype.

Reputation & Narrative can be much more important than on-field performance sometimes - and Walton is a great example of that.

 

[edge]

RB is an interesting position. Some of the players that don’t excel in college play really well in the pros. This is why you see alot of pro players from smaller schools.

 

[DMoney]

Lots of Mark Walton fans here that still have skinned knees & bruised throats.

They won't be able to even open this thread.

Walton was starting in the NFL before he went crazy. He was a very good RB.

That has nothing to do with Gus Edwards, and you have wasted too much energy trying to salvage your take on Walton.

 

[bshaw28]

Walton was starting in the NFL before he went crazy. He was a very good RB.

That has nothing to do with Gus Edwards, and you have wasted too much energy trying to salvage your take on Walton.

@DMoney - you said Walton would be a better NFL RB than Duke Johnson & you've always defended that take.

That's weird. You're not willing to listen to logic & reason and you've just never been very realistic when it comes to Walton.

Instead you'll say thing like:

"Walton was a starting RB in the NFL" - Yes, Walton started 4 games for the Dolphins in 2019. Patrick Laird also started 4. Kalen Ballage started 6.
ALL 3 WERE BAD. None were "starting" caliber NFL RB's.

"Walton was a 4th RD Draft Pick" - Yes, Walton was in 2019. Kalen Ballage & Ito Smith were also 4th RD RB picks in the same draft.
ALL 3 WERE BAD.

I can defend my take on Walton. It's really, really easy. You can't respond to things like the above to defend your take on Walton - because there isn't one really.

 

[miamifan007]

Why? Why? Why?

I'll tell you why.

No ******* OL.

Who were his OL during this tenure?

 

[ChinstrapCane]

One of my colleagues coaches HSFB out in Queens. He said Gus was the best player he ever coached against. Now NYC aint **** in football, but that's still pretty high praise coming from a coach with as much skin in the game as he has.

Proud of him...

NYC HS football may not be Florida, GA, TX or CA, but NYC has some good programs like Erasmus Hall who put out pretty good talent.

 

[passitback]

NYC HS football may not be Florida, GA, TX or CA, but NYC has some good programs like Erasmus Hall who put out pretty good talent.

For sure, but very few stay in the public schools. Most go prep.

For a city with 1.1 million kids, NYC should be churning out way more talent than it does.

I really wish people up here gave a **** about public high school sports. Most don't.

 

[DMoney]

@DMoney - you said Walton would be a better NFL RB than Duke Johnson & you've always defended that take.

That's weird. You're not willing to listen to logic & reason and you've just never been very realistic when it comes to Walton.

Instead you'll say thing like:

"Walton was a starting RB in the NFL" - Yes, Walton started 4 games for the Dolphins in 2019. Patrick Laird also started 4. Kalen Ballage started 6.
ALL 3 WERE BAD. None were "starting" caliber NFL RB's.

"Walton was a 4th RD Draft Pick" - Yes, Walton was in 2019. Kalen Ballage & Ito Smith were also 4th RD RB picks in the same draft.
ALL 3 WERE BAD.

I can defend my take on Walton. It's really, really easy. You can't respond to things like the above to defend your take on Walton - because there isn't one really.

Yes, I said Walton would be a better pro than Duke. He was not. While starting for the Dolphins in his second season, he began getting arrested and never stopped. I misevaluated his ability to obey the law. Maybe Duke would have been better anyway. It’s unfortunate that Walton got in trouble just as he was getting huge snaps.

Now let’s turn to your position, which you have stubbornly held onto and used thousands of words to justify even as Walton emerged as a professional football player:

1) Walton was a “below-average” P5 back.

2) Richt started Walton over Yearby because of favoritism.

The first one is absurd on its face. You say that the Dolphins were bad by NFL standards. OK. We are talking about college players. And any player who is good enough to start for one of 32 NFL teams is a very good college talent.

It’s so obvious nothing more needs to be said. But if you need more, consider that Walton started over Myles Gaskin, a guy who rushed for 5,300 yards at the P5 level and is currently in his 5th season at the NFL level. Nobody could argue he was not a very good college talent with a straight face. And Walton was better.

As for the second point, your theory seems to be there was a conspiracy against Yearby and Richt played favorites. Of course, Walton got drafted fourth round and Yearby didn’t even make a camp. So that conspiracy apparently extended to every NFL franchise.

Walton was a very good college back that scored a lot of touchdowns, picked up the blitz at an elite level and was an outstanding receiver. Running the ball was the weakest part of his game, and he still averaged 5.3 and 7.6 ypc in his last two seasons. That package of skills got him drafted and earned him one of 32 starting jobs in the NFL.

You took a position early on and continue to dig in your heels. If the argument is that Gus was better than Walton, I can buy it. He was certainly a better runner, if a worse protector and receiver.

But if you need to write essay after essay to justify your take that Walton was below average, it is not a very sound take.

 

[24/7canes]

Yet most on this site kept saying how trash and soft he ran while playing at Miami. As one of the gus Edwards truthers on here I’m glad he’s had a successful career. Another Al golden hidden gem

well the fact is he was trash while here and he 100% pussssy footed and ran like a soft bed of charmin while here.

 

[grover]

Can’t argue rbs with this Man, you will lose lol. Great post

I have great respect for @bshaw28 . But he kills you with statistics. Statistics are of course really important. But they can be manipulated to support an argument. And there's more to a player than his stats. Besides, I still think the eye test has value. ... At the same time, I don't really have a strong preference in the Walton v Yearby argument. Both had their positives and negatives.

 

[bshaw28]

@DMoney - Notice you conveniently left out Kalen Ballage & Patrick Laird AGAIN!

@DMoney - I know you won't even read this, so this is to give context to anyone else reading this

But to address your comical points:

While starting for the Dolphins in his second season, he began getting arrested and never stopped

Just Wrong. In 1 year with the Bengals he averaged 0.9 ypc in the Pre-Season and 2.4 ypc in the regular season. He was arrested 3 times.

Walton was only on the Dolphins because the Bengals cut him - partly for the arrests, partly for being a bad RB.

any player who is good enough to start for one of 32 NFL teams is a very good college talent.

OK - so Kalen Ballage & Patrick Laird were "very good" college talents by your standards. More on that later (look at their stats)

2) Richt started Walton over Yearby because of favoritism. & consider that Walton started over Myles Gaskin, a guy who rushed for 5,300 yards at the P5 level and is currently in his 5th season at the NFL level.

So why was Walton the starting RB to start spring in 2016?
Why did YOU yourself call Yearby the better runner halfway through the 2016 season?

CONIVIENTLY - AGAIN You left out that Kalen Ballage & Patrick Laird ALSO started over Myles Gaskin. AND Semaje Perrine was on the team.

By your logic, are Ballage & Laird better than Gaskin & Perrine, correct?

That package of skills got him drafted and earned him one of 32 starting jobs in the NFL.

The team that drafted him cut Walton after 1 year. He started because the Dolphins were tanking and traded their actual starting RB - Kenyan Drake.

That's why Walton, Ballage & Laird combined for 14 starts that year. Newsflash - If you're tanking you play bad players, that's kind of how tanking works. It's just comical to act like Walton was playing so good that he earned a starting NFL spot.

Walton got drafted fourth round and Yearby didn’t even make a camp. So that conspiracy apparently extended to every NFL franchise.

Yearby doesn't have NFL measurables, much like Parrish doesn't have them now. They're not NFL players.

I notice you didn't address Yearby putting up much better numbers than Walton.

I also noticed that you didn't post ANY Walton stats except the ones below....that's pretty on brand for your Walton defense.

he still averaged 5.3 and 7.6 ypc in his last two seasons.

This is where you're beyond help @DMoney. You've NEVER acknowledged that Walton beat up on bad teams, and was really bad against good teams.

NEVER ONCE ACKNOWLEDGED IT

@DMoney - You'll always have the NC St game!

It’s unfortunate that Walton got in trouble just as he was getting huge snaps.

In each of their 4 starts after Kenyan Drake was traded - here's the "huge snaps" each of these "very good" college RB's got:

Ballage - 49
Walton - 55
Laird - 57

So, Walton was SO GOOD that he got the same amount of "huge snaps" as Ballage & Laird?

1) Walton was a “below-average” P5 back.

Here's the career numbers vs P5 opponents

You can pick ANY P5 RB and he'll average a higher YPC vs P5 teams. I'm serious. Pick ANY. Seriously, anyone reading this - give me ANY P5 RB.

That's why Walton was a below average P5 RB. His YPC vs P5 is HISTORICALLY BAD.

Maybe Duke would have been better anyway.

You took a position early on and continue to dig in your heels.

Am I the one digging in my heels defending a bad take?

You STILL are saying it's only a "maybe" Duke would've been a better RB if Walton hadn't gotten arrested. That's truly amazing. Do you see how that take you're hanging on to undermines any good arguments you might have had?

As a parting gift I'll leave you with these Walton stats:

Walton Career YPC

2015 vs P5 - 3.2
2016 vs P5 - 4.4
2017 vs P5 - 3.0
2018 NFL Pre-Season - 0.9
2018 NFL Season - 2.4
2018 NFL Pre-Season - 2.6
2018 NFL Season - 3.8

Pure comedy.

 

[bshaw28]

I have great respect for @bshaw28 . But he kills you with statistics. Statistics are of course really important. But they can be manipulated to support an argument. And there's more to a player than his stats. Besides, I still think the eye test has value. ... At the same time, I don't really have a strong preference in the Walton v Yearby argument. Both had their positives and negatives.

I get I overdo it with stats. But with Walton - there's only 1 stat that matters:

Walton has a 3.8 ypc vs P5 teams in his career. That's the worst of any P5 RB.

I PROMISE you - Anyone.....give me ANY P5 RB in the last 20 years. Any of them who are remotely even "ok" will average above 4.0 ypc.

 

[DMoney]

OK - so Kalen Ballage & Patrick Laird were "very good" college talents by your standards.

Um, of course?

Those guys played close to 100 NFL games, combined. Most college backs don’t even get invited to a camp because they lack the talent.

The problem is that you scrutinize Walton with a microscope and display no perspective on what the average P5 back actually looks like. Many, including myself, have always acknowledged that Walton wasn’t a great pure runner. But he was an elite football player who could protect, catch and run tough. That’s why he got paid to play football, and so many others got cut.

I understand you are obsessed with showing that Richt, Thomas Brown (now an NFL OC), and the NFL were wrong about Walton, and that your initial bad take was right. But at some point it’s time to waive the white flag and stop writing formulas like Charlie from Always Sunny.

Walton broke his ankle at the beginning of his junior season and still went fourth round. And it took a crime wave to get him out of the league. That’s because he was an excellent football player.

 

[bshaw28]

Um, of course?

Those guys played close to 100 NFL games, combined. Most college backs don’t even get invited to a camp because they lack the talent.

The problem is that you scrutinize Walton with a microscope and display no perspective on what the average P5 back actually looks like. Many, including myself, have always acknowledged that Walton wasn’t a great pure runner. But he was an elite football player who could protect, catch and run tough. That’s why he got paid to play football, and so many others got cut.

I understand you are obsessed with showing that Richt, Thomas Brown (now an NFL OC), and the NFL were wrong about Walton, and that your initial bad take was right. But at some point it’s time to waive the white flag and stop writing formulas like Charlie from Always Sunny.

Walton broke his ankle at the beginning of his junior season and still went fourth round. And it took a crime wave to get him out of the league. That’s because he was an excellent football player.

Trayone Gary made it to final cuts with the Browns. Robert Burns is currently on the Bears practice squad. Neither were "very good" college RB's.

Kalen Ballage was behind Demario Richard on the Arizona St depth chart for 4 straight years. Ballage was not a "very good" college RB. I've always said he's even worse than Walton.

50+ rookie RB's are in NFL camps every year. There simply aren't 50 "very good" RB's in every recruiting class.

There are busts & bad players that get drafted are in the NFL every single year.

For perspective - AGAIN - give me any P5 RB in the last 20 years. Let me compare Walton's P5 YPC to them. I'm literally giving you thousands to choose from and you won't give me 1. Seriously - just name ONE, I don't care who it is. Or at least explain to me how that ask "lacks perspective"

With Walton you dig in your heels with "all NFL players are very good college players" (not true), "All drafted players are very good" (not true - as if there aren't busts), and "the coaches depth chart always reflects talent and can never be questioned" (Not true - and I don't even think you believe that)

"It took a crime wave to get Walton out of the league" - DMoney. That's an all-timer.

 

[CaneSinceForEver]

Speaking of former Canes that didn't have heralded careers here, Dee Delany had a real nick pick vs the Eagles.

 

[DMoney]

Trayone Gary made it to final cuts with the Browns. Robert Burns is currently on the Bears practice squad. Neither were "very good" college RB's.

Kalen Ballage was behind Demario Richard on the Arizona St depth chart for 4 straight years. Ballage was not a "very good" college RB. I've always said he's even worse than Walton.

50+ rookie RB's are in NFL camps every year. There simply aren't 50 "very good" RB's in every recruiting class.

There are busts & bad players that get drafted are in the NFL every single year.

For perspective - AGAIN - give me any P5 RB in the last 20 years. Let me compare Walton's P5 YPC to them. I'm literally giving you thousands to choose from and you won't give me 1. Seriously - just name ONE, I don't care who it is. Or at least explain to me how that ask "lacks perspective"

With Walton you dig in your heels with "all NFL players are very good college players" (not true), "All drafted players are very good" (not true - as if there aren't busts), and "the coaches depth chart always reflects talent and can never be questioned" (Not true - and I don't even think you believe that)

"It took a crime wave to get Walton out of the league" - DMoney. That's an all-timer.

It’s telling that you need move the goalposts to camp invites. I’m talking about guys that actually make it through the intense NFL cutting process performed by professional evaluators.

The two guys you pegged as “below-average P5 talents” combined for close to 100 games in the league. Walton was on his way before the arrests. Nobody that plays that much in the league is a below-average P5 talent.

 

[SFbayCane]

Thread title change