Gnomes & pucks: this thread sucks

[Macca]

Yeah, so the Canes are in the D3 playoffs this weekend...

Are they D3 or Club in hockey? How did i go this weekend. Sweet uni's.

 

[VACane]

Are they D3 or Club in hockey? How did i go this weekend. Sweet uni's.

They are D3 Club. Club hockey has 3 levels in the ACHA. Divisions 1 and 2 are extremely competitive. Some D3 teams can be as well.

 

[Genghis Cane]

They are D3 Club. Club hockey has 3 levels in the ACHA. Divisions 1 and 2 are extremely competitive. Some D3 teams can be as well.

Very true. College hockey is one of those weird sports where lower divisions are incredibly competitive.

Since there are only like 50 division 1 teams, a lot of good players don’t end up making it.

Moreover, division 2 basically doesn’t exist — pretty sure there is less than 10 teams — so that leaves D3 as the landing destination for the kids who barely miss making a D1 roster. And again, a lack of teams at the D3 level results in very good players falling through the cracks and being forced to play D1 club.

D1 club hockey is pretty much the equivalent of D3 in every other sport. It’s tremendously competitive. After D1 club, then things kinda come back to reality. D2 and D3 club are solid, but nothing more. Defintely entertaining, though.

 

[Macca21]

Very true. College hockey is one of those weird sports where lower divisions are incredibly competitive.

Since there are only like 50 division 1 teams, a lot of good players don’t end up making it.

Moreover, division 2 basically doesn’t exist — pretty sure there is less than 10 teams — so that leaves D3 as the landing destination for the kids who barely miss making a D1 roster. And again, a lack of teams at the D3 level results in very good players falling through the cracks and being forced to play D1 club.

D1 club hockey is pretty much the equivalent of D3 in every other sport. It’s tremendously competitive. After D1 club, then things kinda come back to reality. D2 and D3 club are solid, but nothing more. Defintely entertaining, though.

Interesting. D3 is legit hockey. I know FGCU has a very good club team as well as some other programs. Had no idea there were three divisions. Good info.

D1 has changed so much since the 90’s. Kids are ultra skilled man, game is fast. I played against Paul Kariya back in the day, he was born too early. Kid was from a different planet even in the clutch and grab combat of Hockey East.

 

[Genghis Cane]

Interesting. D3 is legit hockey. I know FGCU has a very good club team as well as some other programs. Had no idea there were three divisions. Good info.

D1 has changed so much since the 90’s. Kids are ultra skilled man, game is fast. I played against Paul Kariya back in the day, he was born too early. Kid was from a different planet even in the clutch and grab combat of Hockey East.

Very cool. And I agree with your point that it has changed over time. The talent on display is something else. I wish college hockey was more popular in this country because the product is incredibly entertaining.

I attended college at SUNY Oswego, a small state school near Syracuse, New York. Our D3 hockey team was consistently ranked in the top 5 while I was in school, and those game were insanely fun to attend. Most of the games were sellouts and the atmosphere rivaled what you would see at a powerhouse D1 team’s rink.

The D1 club team was so talented, too. I actually tried out for the team my freshman year and made it to the final cuts before being let go. In high school, I led my team in goals and was tied for 5th in the entire section in goals my senior year, and yet, I still didn’t make the D1 club team. That should give anybody an idea of how competitive it truly is at that level.

 

[Fightinibis]

Jagr, you are better than this. People point out the tuition gap because of the fact that when you are out there recruiting, and you can only offer so much as a private school, it thins your talent pool a bit. Miami has and will always be at a disadvantage in a sport like baseball, where you can't offer full rides to anyone, but it has gotten worse over the years.

Does pointing that out indicate that we were happy with Morris? No, it's a statement of fact. It's not an accident that as the scholarship requirements have changed over the years, private schools aren't as competitive as they once were. Programs like SC, Stanford and others are flat out mediocre for long stretches, where 20 years ago that wasn't the case. Miami can and should be a competitive program, but we shouldn't sit here and act like Miami isn't playing against a stacked deck more often than not.

Doesn't quite explain Vandy though does it?

 

[rok]

The bleachers in RF should be relocated behind the RF wall, creating space for a new IPF. Think Ft. Lauderdale Stadium.

 

[Canedude08]

Doesn't quite explain Vandy though does it?

Wow, ONE school. Never mind the fact that Vandy gets SEC Network money, and even Vanderbilt hasn't been dominant. Look at their postseason records, Not hardly something that reminds me of the private school glory years. Vanderbilt has made 3 trips to Omaha since 2010, compared to Miami's 2. They did cash in on one of their trips, winning it all in 2014.

 

[Fightinibis]

Wow, ONE school. Never mind the fact that Vandy gets SEC Network money, and even Vanderbilt hasn't been dominant. Look at their postseason records, Not hardly something that reminds me of the private school glory years. Vanderbilt has made 3 trips to Omaha since 2010, compared to Miami's 2. They did cash in on one of their trips, winning it all in 2014.

Really? Thats what you come back with? SEC Network money?

Ok...now do TCU with only 4 CWS appearances in a row from 2014-2017 and NCAA tourney play every year since 2004. lol

I am a believer in the scholarship advantage state schools have versus private schools, but let's not pretend it is impossible to be a contender of sorts annually. Whatever the **** you think of their "postseason records"...those are 2 squads that consistently make the postseason...which is kind of important to having any record at all.

UM

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Wow, ONE school. Never mind the fact that Vandy gets SEC Network money, and even Vanderbilt hasn't been dominant. Look at their postseason records, Not hardly something that reminds me of the private school glory years. Vanderbilt has made 3 trips to Omaha since 2010, compared to Miami's 2. They did cash in on one of their trips, winning it all in 2014.

They can't use that SEC money to add more scholarships, so they're still in the same boat we are as a private school, which just happens to be the entire point.

 

[GAhurricane]

is there any hope that the ncaa will one day let the schools give more baseball scholarships? or does title IX prevent that?

 

[Canedude08]

Really? Thats what you come back with? SEC Network money?

Ok...now do TCU with only 4 CWS appearances in a row from 2014-2017 and NCAA tourney play every year since 2004. lol

I am a believer in the scholarship advantage state schools have versus private schools, but let's not pretend it is impossible to be a contender of sorts annually. Whatever the **** you think of their "postseason records"...those are 2 squads that consistently make the postseason...which is kind of important to having any record at all.

UM

I guess that you didn't bother to notice that TCU, outside of that 4 year span has been relatively mediocre, especially by this fanbase's standards. This fanbase throws hissy fits when the team merely makes the tournament and isn't a top end seed. It's amazing how the standard conveniently changes when other programs are mentioned. No one said that it's impossible for a private school to hit on a great group of guys that happen to stick around, and win a ton, because that's exactly what TCU did. They hit on a core group of guys, and cashed in multiple times. Now notice that their trips to Omaha stopped when that core group started leaving. The problem is that it's infinitely tougher for a private school to keep RELOADING, due to the fact that your talent pool is significantly smaller. Even if you are a top end talent evaluator, and beat the bushes for talent(Which Schlossnagle does), you are a couple of busts away from disaster.

By the way, outside of the previous two seasons, Miami was making the postseason on a regular basis too. No one gave a crap, and people wanted Morris gone(and rightfully so). Making the postseason is nothing if you aren't doing anything while you are there. You aren't seeing private schools do much in the postseason for the most part. Remember the following

Rice: Hasn't made the CWS since 2008
Southern Cal: Hasn't made the CWS since 2001
Tulane: Hasn't made the CWS since 2005
Stanford: Hasn't made the CWS since 2008

Lots of tradition at Rice, Southern Cal and Stanford and none of them have been to Omaha since the latter stages of the Bush administration.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

I guess that you didn't bother to notice that TCU, outside of that 4 year span has been relatively mediocre, especially by this fanbase's standards. This fanbase throws hissy fits when the team merely makes the tournament and isn't a top end seed. It's amazing how the standard conveniently changes when other programs are mentioned. No one said that it's impossible for a private school to hit on a great group of guys that happen to stick around, and win a ton, because that's exactly what TCU did. They hit on a core group of guys, and cashed in multiple times. Now notice that their trips to Omaha stopped when that core group started leaving. The problem is that it's infinitely tougher for a private school to keep RELOADING, due to the fact that your talent pool is significantly smaller. Even if you are a top end talent evaluator, and beat the bushes for talent(Which Schlossnagle does), you are a couple of busts away from disaster.

By the way, outside of the previous two seasons, Miami was making the postseason on a regular basis too. No one gave a crap, and people wanted Morris gone(and rightfully so). Making the postseason is nothing if you aren't doing anything while you are there. You aren't seeing private schools do much in the postseason for the most part. Remember the following

Rice: Hasn't made the CWS since 2008
Southern Cal: Hasn't made the CWS since 2001
Tulane: Hasn't made the CWS since 2005
Stanford: Hasn't made the CWS since 2008

Lots of tradition at Rice, Southern Cal and Stanford and none of them have been to Omaha since the latter stages of the Bush administration.

None of this explains why our 2018 RPI was worse than teams like Kent State, Illinois, Purdue, and Jacksonville.

 

[canesproponent]

I guess that you didn't bother to notice that TCU, outside of that 4 year span has been relatively mediocre, especially by this fanbase's standards. This fanbase throws hissy fits when the team merely makes the tournament and isn't a top end seed. It's amazing how the standard conveniently changes when other programs are mentioned. No one said that it's impossible for a private school to hit on a great group of guys that happen to stick around, and win a ton, because that's exactly what TCU did. They hit on a core group of guys, and cashed in multiple times. Now notice that their trips to Omaha stopped when that core group started leaving. The problem is that it's infinitely tougher for a private school to keep RELOADING, due to the fact that your talent pool is significantly smaller. Even if you are a top end talent evaluator, and beat the bushes for talent(Which Schlossnagle does), you are a couple of busts away from disaster.

By the way, outside of the previous two seasons, Miami was making the postseason on a regular basis too. No one gave a crap, and people wanted Morris gone(and rightfully so). Making the postseason is nothing if you aren't doing anything while you are there. You aren't seeing private schools do much in the postseason for the most part. Remember the following

Rice: Hasn't made the CWS since 2008
Southern Cal: Hasn't made the CWS since 2001
Tulane: Hasn't made the CWS since 2005
Stanford: Hasn't made the CWS since 2008

Lots of tradition at Rice, Southern Cal and Stanford and none of them have been to Omaha since the latter stages of the Bush administration.

You are completely right, but please note that you are arguing with a chimpanzee. That gnome is dumber than dirt!

You are asking 15.3 players on the team to pay $39,343 in additional tuition per year. If these players choose to attend a Private University, they are looking at $157,372 in additional loans over four years. For Collins, Abreu, Jay, Alonso...... these loans are laughable because they were already offered millions prior to choosing UM. (Moreover, UM has hundreds of examples of 'elite' players earning more after 3-years at UM than out of high school.)

The problem arises with the Tomas' (i.e. the 'non elite player'), who end up batting over .300 for 4-years, and know that they will most probably be paying that $157,372 for the next 30-years of their lives....... UM enrolls 15.3 Tomas, and it reaches Omaha every year. They are losing the bulk of those 'non elite' players.

It is a colossal disadvantage. If one looks at UM over the past 10-years. (All 10-years.) A reasonable, objective person can see that UM was the third best performing private school in baseball.

UM won 395 baseball games over the past ten years and attended 2 World Series. Vanderbilt won 442 games, reached Omaha 3x and won the World Series once. TCU went to Omaha 5x and won 436 games.

Another lie of the gnome is that scholarships do not help. That is a bald faced lie. As long as you provide a comparable scholarship to a female player, you can bestow as much merit-based, academic-related financial aid as you like. All of Vanderbilt's baseball players received financial aid last year. That is how Vanderbilt competes. Same with Rice. Stanford is now endowing the same scholarships for non-revenue sports. UM needs to follow suit.

(Does one truly believe that a Hialeah player would prefer to play in Tallahassee or Gainesville and listen to the crowd sing "row, row your boat"! Come on!

 

[Macca21]

You are completely right, but please note that you are arguing with a chimpanzee. That gnome is dumber than dirt!

You are asking 15.3 players on the team to pay $39,343 in additional tuition per year. If these players choose to attend a Private University, they are looking at $157,372 in additional loans over four years. For Collins, Abreu, Jay, Alonso...... these loans are laughable because they were already offered millions prior to choosing UM. (Moreover, UM has hundreds of examples of 'elite' players earning more after 3-years at UM than out of high school.)

The problem arises with the Tomas' (i.e. the 'non elite player'), who end up batting over .300 for 4-years, and know that they will most probably be paying that $157,372 for the next 30-years of their lives....... UM enrolls 15.3 Tomas, and it reaches Omaha every year. They are losing the bulk of those 'non elite' players.

It is a colossal disadvantage. If one looks at UM over the past 10-years. (All 10-years.) A reasonable, objective person can see that UM was the third best performing private school in baseball.

UM won 395 baseball games over the past ten years and attended 2 World Series. Vanderbilt won 442 games, reached Omaha 3x and won the World Series once. TCU went to Omaha 5x and won 436 games.

Another lie of the gnome is that scholarships do not help. That is a bald faced lie. As long as you provide a comparable scholarship to a female player, you can bestow as much merit-based, academic-related financial aid as you like. All of Vanderbilt's baseball players received financial aid last year. That is how Vanderbilt competes. Same with Rice. Stanford is now endowing the same scholarships for non-revenue sports. UM needs to follow suit.

(Does one truly believe that a Hialeah player would prefer to play in Tallahassee or Gainesville and listen to the crowd sing "row, row your boat"! Come on!

Interesting read. This has come full circle. College hockey teams (private university’s) endow scholarships as well. We used to get 20 fulls and then title 9 took place. We went to maybe 14 fulls. Now the kid who will turn pro after a year will get a “full scholarship” but the coaches know the kid is not staying so they allocate that money to the “Tomas” like kid. They will also give a kid 2 for 4 and then the kid may get the “Harry the Hat Rich Guy” Family scholarship. Private universities have to be creative. That said, they have plenty of money and they should be wearing masks charging what they charge for school.

We used to have kids on baseball scholarship to play hockey but that practice stopped right around the time I got to school.

 

[canesproponent]

Interesting read. This has come full circle. College hockey teams (private university’s) endow scholarships as well. We used to get 20 fulls and then title 9 took place. We went to maybe 14 fulls. Now the kid who will turn pro after a year will get a “full scholarship” but the coaches know the kid is not staying so they allocate that money to the “Tomas” like kid. They will also give a kid 2 for 4 and then the kid may get the “Harry the Hat Rich Guy” Family scholarship. Private universities have to be creative. That said, they have plenty of money and they should be wearing masks charging what they charge for school.

We used to have kids on baseball scholarship to play hockey but that practice stopped right around the time I got to school.

We have plenty of money and have excellent donors. The problem is that the vast majority of UM's donors despise the football team. There is a lot of Shalala hate on this Board, but she protected the football program as best she could. Our richest donors (well over 80% of them) love the biotech center, tech initiatives, links to Latin America, the law school, engineering, the MBA and, obviously, undergraduate rankings. They abhor football.... It is what it is.

We may some day be able to fund 5-7 baseball scholarships. That is all we need.

Morris allowed the scholarships allocated to baseball players to decline. He become lackadaisical in his administrative duties and other facets of the program. Di Mare brought them back up to prior levels. These scholarships are not endowed. We need them endowed. His Dad could help with that.

They also secured funds for state of the art batting cages. Am told they are trying to raise the majority of funds needed for a new addition down the right field sight of the Park.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

Ok...now do TCU with only 4 CWS appearances in a row from 2014-2017 and NCAA tourney play every year since 2004. lol

TCU has not been in the NCAA Tourney every year since 2004. They missed it twice since then. In fact they missed it last year.

The problem is that people like you don't really know what they're talking about.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

This fanbase throws hissy fits when the team merely makes the tournament and isn't a top end seed. It's amazing how the standard conveniently changes when other programs are mentioned.

That's what I love about the "what about's?" that people throw out.

None of them have advanced to the Super Regional and College World Series as much as Miami in the relevant time period.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

“Peter Gibbons”? I thought he would be more creative.

 

[canesproponent]

“Peter Gibbons”? I thought he would be more creative.

The Gnome