For those who say we need an "offensive coach"

[FullyERicht]

I was going to post about defensive minded coaches but work kept getting in the way. If you look at our history of success and failure minus Golden and Randy because they were both in over their heads, defensive minded coaches have come in and laid the solid foundation for winning championships followed by offensive minded coaches that have returned things to rubble.

Huh?

Howard was an offensive guy. Out of 5 NCs, 4 were won with HCs with an offensive background.

I knew someone would bring up Schnelly. He is the exception. Although, I do wish he would have done for us stadium wise what he has done at every other school since leaving. You mentioned the 4 NCs but you clearly didn't comprehend with your big bold highlight what I said. Yes the offensive minded coaches won NCs with the talent left for them by Jimmy and Butch and then kindly proceeded to run the program into the ground.

And there is enough talent on this team left over from the Golden era to win immediately with an elite offensive coach.

And LOL at the suggestion that all offensive coaches ruin programs. The original creator of this program was an offensive coach.

 

[DiegoCane]

It should be easier to field a competent D next year.

How so? The offense is already way ahead and, most importantly, brings back Brad Kaaya.

I disagree.

Defense has more high end talent (especially if Burns and Elder come back) and the most important position, DL, is stacked.
Offense has less high end talent and the OL stinks.

 

[3FW]

D money is right, it's why Davis, Schiano, Stoops, Strong and Pagano are all on the A list. Guys like JJ and Vilma are advising an AD already with a defensive bent. Also, I think this offensive staff is very well liked by the AD, and he would not mind hiring a coach who brings that staff back intact.

 

[clg003]

Once again Elmer Fudd won the NC guys.

Get the fence up and it don't matter who you bring in.

If who you bring in can get the fence up faster then he is the right choice.

If your answer to who you bring in is that he has to win before he put the fence up then he is the wrong guy for the job.

 

[FullyERicht]

D money is right, it's why Davis, Schiano, Stoops, Strong and Pagano are all on the A list. Guys like JJ and Vilma are advising an AD already with a defensive bent. Also, I think this offensive staff is very well liked by the AD, and he would not mind hiring a coach who brings that staff back intact.

And this is exactly why the AD should be fired.

 

[FullyERicht]

Once again Elmer Fudd won the NC guys.

Get the fence up and it don't matter who you bring in.

If who you bring in can get the fence up faster then he is the right choice.

How many goddam times does it need to be explained that you can't put the fence up unless you win??? How many times? 100? 200? 1000???? For ***** sake have you learned nothing from the last two coaches who were supposedly going to "shut down south florida"???

Recruiters at Miami start off with a bang, but if they don't win quickly, South Florida players are too savvy to buy into their sales pitches and the recruiting momentum dies. It's happened twice this decade, it's proven that you must COACH your way out of this mess.

 

[CanesAreAble]

This. I was shocked by the offensive yards/play numbers that D$ posted, and I'm not seeing those figures.

Here it is so you can see for yourself:

School Game Finder Query Results | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

The teams ranked ahead of Miami are the teams you would expect- Baylor, Oregon, FSU, Alabama, TAMU, Georgia and Wisconsin. Yards per play cuts through stylistic differences, which is why you see Alabama alongside Baylor and Oregon.

My eyes see an offense that has flaws but can also make huge chunk plays. We would've won a ton of games with this offense in the mid-2000s. It needs improvements to reach the championship level, particularly on 3rd down and in the red zone, but it's not as far away as people think. Especially when you have Brad Kaaya at quarterback.

Because we've had players that generate chunk plays (Duke, Dorsett, Coley freshman year, etc...). But 3rd down, red zone, scoring, and our output when've faced defenses with a pulse confirm what my eyes see.

I don't think we're any closer on offense than defense. The D is littered with 4-star guys. A smart head coach and a good DC should get results next year. And as I stated earlier, I suspect we'll see improvement this year down the stretch if Larry Scott continues to let the defense be aggressive.

Despite Golden's failings, we've still been able to lure top-end talent on defense. Most of our big whiffs have been on offense. If we bring in an offense guru who develops QBs and puts up monster offensive numbers, guys like Dalvin Cook will stop leaving.

I also think there's more of an opportunity to do "more with less" on offense. Memphis has a top 3 offense, and they shredded Ole Miss with 70% of Paxton Lynch's targets being WALK-ONS. What would Fuente do with Miami talent?

 

[01Canes]

It should be easier to field a competent D next year.

How so? The offense is already way ahead and, most importantly, brings back Brad Kaaya.

It's not way ahead just because you keep repeating it's way ahead. And the reason is simple: we'll have more talent and impact players on the D roster next year. The talent on the DL should be absurd.

That's why I use stats and not just my opinion.

As for the DL, I have high hopes, but that's all they are for now. Brad Kaaya is proven and plays the most impactful position on the field.

Too much focus is being placed (IMO) on the singular statistic that makes this offense look like it's being held back by the defense. Earlier in the thread, you said the yards per play number shows that the offense has performed at a comparable level to the top teams. But it clearly hasn't. Points per play seems to provide a far more accurate reflection of our offense's performance (84th over the last 3 years in points per play compared to 10th in yards per play over the last 5 years).

Every other statistic shows it's a below average unit that's underperformed at a startling rate for years relative to the talent level. Our offensive line is as bad as it's been in my lifetime. We're ranked 113th in rushing offense despite having the most fertile recruiting ground for RBs in the entire country. Our third down offense is ranked in the 100s. Our red zone offense is ranked in the 70s and we score TDs just 47% of the time once we're inside the 20.

On one hand you can say our offense is closer to being good than the defense because of Brad Kaaya. The flipside of that, though, is that it's completely reasonable for certain fans to believe the following:

- Charlie Strong shouldn't be a top candidate given the woeful state of Texas' offense, his botching of their OC situation, and subsequent scapegoating of the playcaller he shouldn't have retained in the first place.
- James Coley cannot be retained as our OC.
- Hiring a defensive-minded coach who's a liability offensively for the third consecutive time continues to squander one of our program's greatest built-in advantages (abundance of difference making skill talent in our recruiting base).

When you finally land a QB of Kaaya's caliber, you don't want to see him handcuffed by a candidate with an alarmingly insufficient offensive track record. I agree with you that the defense is the greatest problem that needs to be fixed. But the offense is problem 1A, not the cartoon showing a coffee-drinking dog saying "this is fine" in a room engulfed in flames.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Once again Elmer Fudd won the NC guys.

Get the fence up and it don't matter who you bring in.

IMO this line of thinking is what got us in trouble.

Shannon was supposed to put the fence up. Golden, who was considered the best recruiter in the country, was supposed to put the fence up.


The fence ain't going back up. We'll always have a ton of talent, but we're not going to get them all (we never have). We need a smart head coach who can optimize talent. That's how you rebuild the brand.

 

[OBLIVION]

I want a staff that has the plan to score and run as many offensive plays that time allows. I want a staff that doesn't care that other team is down by 40 or 50 points.

We do those things above we will bring in the talent on defense to hold our own.

 

[LuCane]

Any analysis of offense needs to revolve around conversions. You win big games with conversions - not chunk plays. I get the importance of yards per play, but I think it should be a mere factor instead of the foundation for how we view an offense.

Right now, and last year, despite the ability to get chunk plays that skew the yards per play average up, we are simply bad on offense. Kaaya can throw for 600 yards a game, and what would matter to me is what he does on 3rd and 7. Yearby can average 140 yards a game (skewed primarily by some bad defenses) and what would matter to me is who's getting the ball on 3rd and 2 and what they're doing with it.

People talk about the Bengals' offense in the NFL. Some have asked me about Hue Jackson. I watched a ton of Bengals games last year (for fantasy football reasons). I was weary of their offense because they were a slightly below average 3rd down conversion team. Andy Dalton and Hue Jackson adjusted. They look fantastic on offense this year. Why? They're a top 5 team in terms of conversions. This, despite that their yards per play only went up slightly (from last year).

 

[clg003]

Once again Elmer Fudd won the NC guys.

Get the fence up and it don't matter who you bring in.

If who you bring in can get the fence up faster then he is the right choice.

How many goddam times does it need to be explained that you can't put the fence up unless you win??? How many times? 100? 200? 1000???? For ****s sake have you learned nothing from the last two coaches who were supposedly going to "shut down south florida"???

Recruiters at Miami start off with a bang, but if they don't win quickly, South Florida players are too savvy to buy into their sales pitches and the recruiting momentum dies. It's happened twice this decade, it's proven that you must COACH your way out of this mess.

OK defecation dude.

This is where you stupidity shines thru your ignorance. The beauty of how wrong you are is only matched by how often your wrong.

But good use of blasphemy to hammer down your baseless and nonfactual point.

In 2007 Alabama hired Saban they went 7-6
2008 They have the #1 ranked class and went 12-2. WON THE SEC!

THEY HAVE NEVER FN LOOKED BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NEVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NEVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5 of the next 7 years that have had the #1 CLASS !!

When you pull in one of the best coaches in the country you create a splash and there is no bigger splash to be made then in MIAMI.

You can talk as much shiat as you want but your wrong as always.

Now back to people defecating on you and you enjoying it.


QUESTION IS WHY DO WE NOT WANT THAT FOR MIAMI!!!!!!

The only coach that could possibly be on the board that can do that for us is Chip Kelly.

 

[DMoney]

Points per play seems to provide a far more accurate reflection of our offense's performance (84th over the last 3 years in points per play compared to 10th in yards per play over the last 5 years).

Where are you getting that number from? Not doubting you at all, but it seems out of whack with the yearly rankings (25th, 35th and 71st).

Either way, we can agree to disagree. Maybe I'm still scarred from living through the Coker offenses and then having to watch D'Onofrio's defenses. I think these offenses plus those defenses could have won a bunch of games.

If Kaaya stays healthy, I'm confident an NFL QB coach like Dorsey can tighten him up on 3rd down and in the RZ while the offense continues to produce big plays. The defense, on the other hand, needs a complete cultural and philosophical makeover.

 

[01Canes]

Points per play seems to provide a far more accurate reflection of our offense's performance (84th over the last 3 years in points per play compared to 10th in yards per play over the last 5 years).

Where are you getting that number from? Not doubting you at all, but it seems out of whack with the yearly rankings (25th, 35th and 71st).

Either way, we can agree to disagree. Maybe I'm still scarred from living through the Coker offenses and then having to watch D'Onofrio's defenses. I think these offenses plus those defenses could have won a bunch of games.

If Kaaya stays healthy, I'm confident an NFL QB coach like Dorsey can tighten him up on 3rd down and in the RZ while the offense continues to produce big plays. The defense, on the other hand, needs a complete cultural and philosophical makeover.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/points-per-play

Quickly sorted by Last 3 and counted 83 teams above Miami with a higher percentage. Maybe their sorting system is all out of whack or Last 3 is for games, not years, which would be dumb on their part but is entirely possible. If that's the case, then I apologize.

We'll agree to disagree about the offense.

 

[CanesAreAble]

If Kaaya stays healthy, I'm confident an NFL QB coach like Dorsey can tighten him up on 3rd down and in the RZ while the offense continues to produce big plays. The defense, on the other hand, needs a complete cultural and philosophical makeover.

I don't doubt Dorsey has a keen football mind, but I just know nothing about his philosophy, what he wants to run, what tempo he wants to play at, etc... And would Butch even give him free rein? Just too many variables, IMO.

I'd rather entrust an offensive coach to fix this mess and bring in a solid DC to play with more speed and instinct.

I think our offensive problems are bigger than tightening up some things. It's the design of the entire offense, gameplanning, tempo, route concepts, setting plays up for later, formation/personnel grouping, situational playcalling, and adjusting on the fly.

I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but Memphis is just slaughtering teams in the second half. Tells me Fuente can adapt on the fly to what the other team is doing. Conversely, Coley Montana is done as soon as his first set of scripted plays are done.

 

[The Franchise]

It should be easier to field a competent D next year.

How so? The offense is already way ahead and, most importantly, brings back Brad Kaaya.

It's not way ahead just because you keep repeating it's way ahead. And the reason is simple: we'll have more talent and impact players on the D roster next year. The talent on the DL should be absurd.

That's why I use stats and not just my opinion.

As for the DL, I have high hopes, but that's all they are for now. Brad Kaaya is proven and plays the most impactful position on the field.

LULZ at stats. Use your eyes, friend. If your eyes tell you our offense is way ahead of our D, then get some goggles. Butch goggles.

As for Kaaya, as much as you tout him (I like him too), he's proven one thing while here--he can't transcend bad coaching. I think he's right around .500 as the QB here.

 

[DiegoCane]

Points per play seems to provide a far more accurate reflection of our offense's performance (84th over the last 3 years in points per play compared to 10th in yards per play over the last 5 years).

Where are you getting that number from? Not doubting you at all, but it seems out of whack with the yearly rankings (25th, 35th and 71st).

Either way, we can agree to disagree. Maybe I'm still scarred from living through the Coker offenses and then having to watch D'Onofrio's defenses. I think these offenses plus those defenses could have won a bunch of games.

If Kaaya stays healthy, I'm confident an NFL QB coach like Dorsey can tighten him up on 3rd down and in the RZ while the offense continues to produce big plays. The defense, on the other hand, needs a complete cultural and philosophical makeover.

Now I'm just really confused. You are scarred by Coker's offenses but want a guy like Strong? And Butch hired Coker to run his offense.

 

[The Franchise]

Once again Elmer Fudd won the NC guys.

Get the fence up and it don't matter who you bring in.

If who you bring in can get the fence up faster then he is the right choice.

If your answer to who you bring in is that he has to win before he put the fence up then he is the wrong guy for the job.

All that fence stuff is great, and I agree. But you ain't building a fence these days without wins. You'll get that initial recruiting bump we always get with a new HC. But if he doesn't win, there won't be a fence.

Best way to build a fence is to win and win quickly and to do it in an exciting manner that gets local players juiced.

 

[DMoney]

Quickly sorted by Last 3 and counted 83 teams above Miami with a higher percentage. Maybe their sorting system is all out of whack or Last 3 is for games, not years, which would be dumb on their part but is entirely possible. If that's the case, then I apologize.

Yeah, "Last 3" is for games, not years. Your point still stands, but the difference between points per play and yards per play isn't as pronounced as stated in your post.

 

[The Franchise]

It should be easier to field a competent D next year.

How so? The offense is already way ahead and, most importantly, brings back Brad Kaaya.

It's not way ahead just because you keep repeating it's way ahead. And the reason is simple: we'll have more talent and impact players on the D roster next year. The talent on the DL should be absurd.

That's why I use stats and not just my opinion.

As for the DL, I have high hopes, but that's all they are for now. Brad Kaaya is proven and plays the most impactful position on the field.

Too much focus is being placed (IMO) on the singular statistic that makes this offense look like it's being held back by the defense. Earlier in the thread, you said the yards per play number shows that the offense has performed at a comparable level to the top teams. But it clearly hasn't. Points per play seems to provide a far more accurate reflection of our offense's performance (84th over the last 3 years in points per play compared to 10th in yards per play over the last 5 years).

Every other statistic shows it's a below average unit that's underperformed at a startling rate for years relative to the talent level. Our offensive line is as bad as it's been in my lifetime. We're ranked 113th in rushing offense despite having the most fertile recruiting ground for RBs in the entire country. Our third down offense is ranked in the 100s. Our red zone offense is ranked in the 70s and we score TDs just 47% of the time once we're inside the 20.

On one hand you can say our offense is closer to being good than the defense because of Brad Kaaya. The flipside of that, though, is that it's completely reasonable for certain fans to believe the following:

- Charlie Strong shouldn't be a top candidate given the woeful state of Texas' offense, his botching of their OC situation, and subsequent scapegoating of the playcaller he shouldn't have retained in the first place.
- James Coley cannot be retained as our OC.
- Hiring a defensive-minded coach who's a liability offensively for the third consecutive time continues to squander one of our program's greatest built-in advantages (abundance of difference making skill talent in our recruiting base).

When you finally land a QB of Kaaya's caliber, you don't want to see him handcuffed by a candidate with an alarmingly insufficient offensive track record. I agree with you that the defense is the greatest problem that needs to be fixed. But the offense is problem 1A, not the cartoon showing a coffee-drinking dog saying "this is fine" in a room engulfed in flames.

Tack this post to the top of the board and then close the tacked thread.

D$, are your ribs tough enough to tattoo this post on them? This dude's spitting truth right here. Pull your deeply entrenched heels out of the dirt, and tip your cap to him, D.