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Flemming de-commits

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HighSeas said:
Benjamin is faster and moves effortlessly. He's a rare breed of athlete who practically glides on the field. He was more prolific after the catch too. He can shake defenders too. Fleming is more like a poor man's Dorsett.

I didn't say Stubblefield is a good coach but he is a good evaluator of WR skills. Jury is out on his coaching ability.
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God no, Fleming has so much more make you miss than Dorsett, and may even be faster. Fleming definitely has shake

And Stubbs is a good evaluator based on WR skills based on what?
 
HurikaneMarc said:
Dumping on the kid? LOL! Ok. I don't feel bad at all at his decommit. Would have liked him but no real loss like losing Neal last year. I just laid out a scenario where the U comes out better and I look forward to that playing out. We don't need local kids, we needs kid who are talented and want to play for us.

I'm just saying the sky isn't falling.
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You may be looking up still, and don’t see the sky falling. That’s because that isht fell 15 years ago, and is all around your feet, on the floor, in pieces. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here. You may have thought this was still 2002.

Anyhow, if you think we don’t need local kids, you're just flat out wrong. Without top local kids, this program has zero reason to be competitive with major cfb programs. You might argue we do not need this particular local kid. But to say we do not need local kids, that’s insane.
 
nycane said:
you really think kirby and saban get guys because of personality? saban has a revolving door of a staff. they win big and pay big.
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Of course they do.
That was causally one of the major criticisms of Saban following last season. He went too recruiting heavy with the staff.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
You may be looking up still, and don’t see the sky falling. That’s because that isht fell 15 years ago, and is all around your feet, on the floor, in pieces. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here. You may have thought this was still 2002.

Anyhow, if you think we don’t need local kids, you're just flat out wrong. Without top local kids, this program has zero reason to be competitive with major cfb programs. You might argue we do not need this particular local kid. But to say we do not need local kids, that’s insane.
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We've got local kids. The majority of the talent on the Alabama team is from Alabama the same with Georgia and even upstart Minnesota. If we can find a better kid out of state then why not get him? Local kids have no issue bailing on us.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
We have 3 commits from Dade. That is not good enough.
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Couldn't agree more. I hate that other schools can come down here and cherry pick talent over us.

BTW, I never said that i didn't want Flemming, I'm just saying if he wants to leave, it doesn't necessarily make the U worse off if we end up with a better player. Every wr doesn't have to be a 4.4 burner. We've got some fast kids already in Pope, Wiggins and Harley. And like somebody eluded to earlier, we can get kids faster.
 
BoxingRobes said:
Looks like a lot of WRs that will take time to develop and have limited ceilings.
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I don't think they will take too much time to develop. Restrepo, Worsham and Emilien (if he comes) are all pretty polished have faced good competition. Redding is less polished but is a grown man physically with a grown-man work ethic. We need them to play early and they should be ready.

My concern is a lack of dynamic athleticism. Those guys are more pure WRs than playmakers.
 
DMoney said:
I don't think they will take too much time to develop. Restrepo, Worsham and Emilien (if he comes) are all pretty polished have faced good competition. Redding is less polished but is a grown man physically with a grown-man work ethic. We need them to play early and they should be ready.

My concern is a lack of dynamic athleticism. Those guys are more pure WRs than playmakers.
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These guys look like 3rd and 4th year contributors, to me.

I'll shelve Restrepo for this post...but the players we have now or could be committed soon just don't have ++ attributes that pop and tell me they will be immediate contributors.

I like Redding III but I like him more as your WR2 in a class over a WR1. We just don't have real deal WR1, that 5* or insane 4* that is a difference maker. And that sucks, because I just threw a rock off my 5th Floor office in Little Havana and hit a 4* WR. Right now, on the roster, we have just a bunch of guys. This years class look like a bunch of guys. Not bums or JAGS necessarily, just...guys. Nice players, but they need some development before I see NFL Draft picks, and I don't know if we have a pro in the bunch.

I think we are saying the same thing here, but I'm not very optimistic here. Especially because I think Stubblefield stinks.

We'll see. I've watched SOME film on these guys, but what film I have seen, I'm just seeing some alright talents...nothing I've wanted to go revisit.

We are in the state of Florida...studs are all over the place at WR. You don't need to even be big, fast, or smart to be a baller. Antonio Brown, Diontae Johnson, Eli Rogers, Doug Baldwin, TommyLee Lewis, Kamar Aiken, Hollywood Brown, Willie Snead, Albert Wilson, Allen Hurns, John Brown, TY Hilton...

Pretty sure I just listed a ridiculous number of receivers from this state that are now in the NFL and none of them were above very low 3-star status.

I'm just sayin, we can do better...either by getting real studs or by evaluating true gems.

Maybe Emilien is a true gem. He doesn't look like a standout athlete to be that true gem, but I guess we'll see.
 
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BoxingRobes said:
These guys look like 3rd and 4th year contributors, to me.

I'll shelve Restrepo for this post...but the players we have now or could be committed soon just don't have ++ attributes that pop and tell me they will be immediate contributors.

I like Redding III but I like him more as your WR2 in a class over a WR1. We just don't have real deal WR1, that 5* or insane 4* that is a difference maker. Right now, on the roster, we have just a bunch of guys. This years class look like a bunch of guys. Not bums or JAGS necessarily, just...guys. Nice players, but they need some development before I see NFL Draft picks.

I think we are saying the same thing here, but I'm not very optimistic here. Especially because I think Stubblefield stinks.
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Do you think Flemming was an immediate contributor?
 
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HurikaneMarc said:
Couldn't agree more. I hate that other schools can come down here and cherry pick talent over us.

BTW, I never said that i didn't want Flemming, I'm just saying if he wants to leave, it doesn't necessarily make the U worse off if we end up with a better player. Every wr doesn't have to be a 4.4 burner. We've got some fast kids already in Pope, Wiggins and Harley. And like somebody eluded to earlier, we can get kids faster.
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Pope and Wiggins will be third year kids next season. Harley a Sr. We do not have the speed we need to return to relevant nationally, and we are not restocking speed this cycle. As for getting kids faster, yawn. We don’t have magic pixie dust in our S&C program. Other major programs have better S&C than we do. So it matters a lot what we are starting with.
 
AHURT12 said:
A recruit going to Nebraska or Maryland is not losing a recruit it's actually doing you a major favor
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You are right, I was trying to be polite. But when a wide receiver is going to play at either of those programs, logic requires that you ask yourself why. And it seems like addition by subtraction for UM
 
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BoxingRobes said:
So, I'm going to challenge this. Why? Because we have no evidence of this yet, IMO.

Its cool that you like some of his evaluations. I can see what he likes in some of these players. But, my concern, being a small and slow WR himself is that Stubblefield tends to disregard those things in some of these WRs, especially the speed aspect. Worsham and Emilien look a tick slow on film and I see them with a bit of a limited ceiling. I think they are solid prospects, but I don't like them as WR2 and WR3 in a class. Plus, I like quite a few WRs better than them, but many of those we've passed on already or the ship has sailed.

I like Restrepo as a WR more than most and honestly, I'd rate him above those two, FWIW.
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Miami has identified and targeted skilled WRs. It's pretty obvious to see the 180 from previous coaches like Dugans who recruited raw athletes vs. Stubblefield who emphasizes route running. You can disagree with that MO but I'll point to Osborn being the best WR on this team despite lousy physical traits as evidence that skills are more important than athleticism, at least in this offense.

Worsham is a far superior talent compared to Osborn. Emilien is also in that archetype and he's much quicker than KJ out of his breaks. Jeff Thomas is a superior talent compared to Fleming. If Osborn outproduces Thomas in this offense then it follows that Worsham would outproduce Fleming to an even greater degree. That is the logic I am using and it should be straightforward unless one disagrees with those evaluations or archetypal comparisons. If the response is "Fleming is fasterrrr!!" then that's just being willfully ignorant of the traits that matter in this scheme.

skeeter said:
God no, Fleming has so much more make you miss than Dorsett, and may even be faster. Fleming definitely has shake

And Stubbs is a good evaluator based on WR skills based on what?
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Dorsett never gets the love from the fanbase. He was a 1st round pick and a **** good WR. He ran crisp routes albeit with limited variety. If Fleming is better than him after the catch that isn't saying much, but Thomas definitely showed more dynamic running skills in HS. It hasn't translated to Miami at all though.

The answer to your question is above.
 
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HighSeas said:
Miami has identified and targeted skilled WRs. It's pretty obvious to see the 180 from previous coaches like Dugans who recruited raw athletes vs. Stubblefield who emphasizes route running. You can disagree with that MO but I'll point to Osborn being the best WR on this team despite lousy physical traits as evidence that skills are more important than athleticism, at least in this offense.

Worsham is a far superior talent compared to Osborn. Emilien is also in that archetype and he's much quicker than KJ out of his breaks. Jeff Thomas is a superior talent compared to Fleming. If Osborn outproduces Thomas in this offense then it follows that Worsham would outproduce Fleming to an even greater degree. That is the logic I am using and it should be straightforward unless one disagrees with those evaluations or archetypal comparisons. If the response is "Fleming is fasterrrr!!" then that's just being willfully ignorant of the traits that matter in this scheme.
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Continue to really enjoy your take on things. Keep up your great analysis man, they’re a pleasure to read.
 
Not sure why we are talking about this still. We parted ways ( sounds like UM wanted a better player and Flemming wanted a different team ) And looks like we will get one committed on Friday. Both Decommits yesterday helped us as it looks like we will replace both with more talented players. Why this year's decommits are so different then last year's . Almost every time we have lost a decommit this year the staff has found a player or equal and many times better qaulity. Works for me .
 
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