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Official Fall PractiSe #9 Monday Aug 15

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CANEMC said:
@Baba Yaga can we get Mario doing this to a FSU helmet? Instead of ‘Norman’ make that ‘Norvell.’ Please and thank you.
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Here bro. Wife called so I had some free time to **** around with it.

ZomboMeme 15082022183639.jpg
 
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Rellyrell said:
Imma just say this, & be through w/ it:

I know majority of us on here have been long time Canes fans. We know what Canes football is supposed to look & feel like. I made an OP months ago when Mario was hired, trying to temper expectations so ppl don’t jump down Mario’s throat if we have some struggles.

I’m painfully re-watching this Miami vs. UVA & the vast majority of the guys in this game will be suiting up game 1. There was a reason TVD kept force feeding Rambo.

I know Miami went 7-5, but in reality, the roster was closer to 5-7 than 7-5. I have legit concerns b/c it’s really hard to change culture in a short window. If anyone can, it would be Mario, but don’t dismiss these reports.

We for sure have some talent, but we need an infusion of talent. We need a higher ratio of guys who are top 15 at their position, not top 20-30.

Just for measures (not including JUCO)-

2016 class:
Miami: 26% of the class was top 15 players
UGA: 36%
Bama: 58%
Clemson: 38%
OSU: 67%

2017 class:
Miami: 24%
UGA: 48%
Bama: 83%
Clemson: 43%
OSU: 71%

2018 class:
Miami: 52%
UGA: 71%
Bama: 62%
Clemson: 76%
OSU: 73%

2019:
Miami: 17%
UGA: 63%
Bama: 89%
Clemson: 38%
OSU: 47%

2020:
Miami: 38%
UGA: 64%
Bama: 52%
Clemson: 65%
OSU: 52%

2021:
Miami: 30%
UGA: 50%
Bama: 70%
Clemson: 61%
OSU: 83%

Don’t get caught up on stars or class rankings; yes, they give an indicator, but u need to get caught up on the quality of the stars we recruit. I liken stars to diamonds; a diamond is a diamond, but it’s the clarity, cut, polish that makes a diamond more valuable. We’ve had classes full of lower quality diamonds, hence why we’ve struggled w/ the likes of the ACC Coastal. Our diamonds have been no better than a high quality CZ. I did a break down of the “#1 2008 class” showing that class ranking is one factor, but we need to look at the avg. recruiting score to get more of a sense of the class. Recruiting scores also let u know, the level of high quality blue chips are in the class.

Now compare that to Mario’s regime thus far:
Class of ‘22: 40%
Class of ‘23: 47% (so far)

Ideally, we want our classes to be no lower than a 48%+ of top 15 players at their position, every class. We’ve seen the ill effects of roster turnover per class, which is y u must stack chips every class. Regardless, I hope this helps some of u to see why The UGAs, Bamas, OSUs, & Clemsons r constantly sniffing the CFP; it’s b/c they recruit, not only blue chips, but high quality blue chips every yr. Bamas worst yr has been our best yr, & that has to change.

I say all that to give reasonable caution to what we’ve been hearing from camp reports. Yes it’s only practice, but I’m not quite sure we’re at an “iron sharpens iron” level, yet. This team feels more 2016ish, like @DMoney mentioned.
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Your point is well made an valid, but my counter point is how would we look stacked against the rest of the ACC outside of Clemson? There’s going to be a good enough gap there that 9-3 should be very reasonable, and 10 with our schedule isn’t out of the question. If it did happen it would be close, and some luck will have to be involved to ensure we don’t get many more key injuries, etc.

The culture aspect can make or break that extra win too. But id be pretty disappointed with 8 wins call me crazy.
 
Liberty City El said:
The difference is volume...

Rambo dropped a lot of passes but got a high volume of targets, therefore his drops didn’t outweigh his catches.

If a WR has drops issues but gets 100 targets he can still realistically catch 50+ passes.
But if you cut those targets in half, the production is cut in half as well, it’s simple math.
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But if the drop ratio is the same, what difference is there? Isn’t it probably better for the offense overall if a guy with a high drop percentage gets fewer targets?

I’m more worried about our guys’ ability to get open. If you can consistently beat coverage, occasional drops aren’t the end of the world. If you struggle beating coverage, I don’t care if you never drop a pass because you’ll never get an opportunity. Fans killed Pope and Wiggins two years ago because of drops but the much bigger issue was their inability to get open, especially against more physical defensive backs.
 
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LuCane said:
[To be clear, this isn't necessarily directed at you. Just using your post to address a broader topic.]

"WR- No change at the top from spring- the top guys are Mike Harley, Charleston Rambo, Keyshawn Smith and Xavier Restrepo. Harley is devastating in the slot due to his combination of vertical speed and quickness. Rambo needs to catch the ball more consistently. Smith made a big play in the second scrimmage and has the best releases on the team. He also needs a bit more consistency and understanding of the position. He's the best overall athlete, though. Restrepo makes plays every day and is a favorite target of all three QBs. He is quick and smart like the best slot receivers, but also brings added YAC value due to his RB build."

The bolded above is from last year's Fall camp recap. (Found here: https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/post-camp-thoughts-long.170440/)

In terms of build and speed, he certainly didn't look like that #1 WR being mentioned we need (and, yes, of course we need a superstar WR; everyone should aim for one). He wasn't overly tall, well-built, or "fast." Rambo got the ball fed to him by King like 8-10 times during the MSU 1st half, but really started to look like what we knew him to become after the UNC game. That was halfway through the season. 1st half of season: 35 catches for 422 yards. 2nd half of the season: 44 catches for 750 yards.

What happened after the UNC game? Some have said Likens put his touch on the offense. Don't know if that's true. We do know they focused on what TVD did best. We widened some of the splits. We opened up the pass game. We isolated some of our WRs far outside the hash. Rambo, specifically. We took advantage of TVD's cannon. TVD didn't really make complex reads and we underutilized the middle of the field. But, he and Rambo put up big numbers. Yes, the first half of the season included Bama and UNC, but the second half included some relatively decent CB/Defenses as well.

Is there an Andre Johnson bigtimer in our current WR group? Doesn't look like it. Is there a guy on the current team as good as 22 year old Rambo? Probably not, but it's difficult to predict when talent will pop. George and Brinson, specifically, were True Frosh, so it's difficult to compare them to a 22 year old focused on making his $ during last season. Are there a few guys who can get open against some of the ACC opponents the same way Rambo did post-UNC? I think so. Will we utilize some of those sets and space? Very few know, I'd guess.

I say let's give it a minute and, once the games begin, let's see what happens with the offense's focus. And, which WR, if any, is given the opportunity on the outside. Things can look very different depending on the focus.
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https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/spring-scrimmage-2.168862/post-5187543

☝🏽What I said about Rambo in April of 2021.

The parallel that people keep making from Rambo this time last year to this year’s group isn’t factoring in the difference between the two Offenses. If we were still running the same Offense as last year I don’t think there would be much if any concern at all because the targets are baked into the system, it’s literally manufactured into the scheme.

This Offense definitely utilizes the middle of the field a lot more with the primary focus being the TE & the Slot Y, therefore the distribution of targets to the Flanker & the Field/X on the outside is likely to decrease, especially when you also factor in we’ll be running it a lot more & using the RB’s out of the backfield a lot more as well.

The issue really just comes down to expectation vs reality; if people are expecting Rambo type of productivity from one of the outside WR’s I would guess they might be disappointed. However, Restrepo will probably get a ton of targets from the Slot, what that exactly translates to remains to be seen, but expecting one of the other WR’s to match Rambo’s #’s might be a little lofty, mainly because they simply won’t get as many opportunities.

We don’t run the same Offense as last year & we shouldn’t expect similar results. That’s not a bad thing, we could actually have a better Offense by working the TE’s & RB’s a lot more, but the concern with the rest of the WR group outside of Restrepo & possibly Keyshawn, is can they make a play to stretch the field & take the top off the Defense when necessary? Because not having that element makes the other elements of the Offense more difficult to operate in crucial moments against Defenses that can adjust & cut half the field off.

Simply put, the question becomes, do we/will we have a multifaceted Offense that can do everything, or will they struggle against Defenses that challenge our WR’s to beat them vs Press Man & deep?

We’ll all find out against TAMU that has a very physical Secondary...
 
gogeta4 said:
Jalen Brown has the dropsiesas well from what i always heard.
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Yeah I don’t care lol not saying it to you I’m saying to everyone who comes to me and says that. Least of my concerns. I’ve said a million times I’ve seen houston kids who couldn’t catch go to the league with development
 
LuCane said:
[To be clear, this isn't necessarily directed at you. Just using your post to address a broader topic.]

"WR- No change at the top from spring- the top guys are Mike Harley, Charleston Rambo, Keyshawn Smith and Xavier Restrepo. Harley is devastating in the slot due to his combination of vertical speed and quickness. Rambo needs to catch the ball more consistently. Smith made a big play in the second scrimmage and has the best releases on the team. He also needs a bit more consistency and understanding of the position. He's the best overall athlete, though. Restrepo makes plays every day and is a favorite target of all three QBs. He is quick and smart like the best slot receivers, but also brings added YAC value due to his RB build."

The bolded above is from last year's Fall camp recap. (Found here: https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/post-camp-thoughts-long.170440/)

In terms of build and speed, he certainly didn't look like that #1 WR being mentioned we need (and, yes, of course we need a superstar WR; everyone should aim for one). He wasn't overly tall, well-built, or "fast." Rambo got the ball fed to him by King like 8-10 times during the MSU 1st half, but really started to look like what we knew him to become after the UNC game. That was halfway through the season. 1st half of season: 35 catches for 422 yards. 2nd half of the season: 44 catches for 750 yards.

What happened after the UNC game? Some have said Likens put his touch on the offense. Don't know if that's true. We do know they focused on what TVD did best. We widened some of the splits. We opened up the pass game. We isolated some of our WRs far outside the hash. Rambo, specifically. We took advantage of TVD's cannon. TVD didn't really make complex reads and we underutilized the middle of the field. But, he and Rambo put up big numbers. Yes, the first half of the season included Bama and UNC, but the second half included some relatively decent CB/Defenses as well.

Is there an Andre Johnson bigtimer in our current WR group? Doesn't look like it. Is there a guy on the current team as good as 22 year old Rambo? Probably not, but it's difficult to predict when talent will pop. George and Brinson, specifically, were True Frosh, so it's difficult to compare them to a 22 year old focused on making his $ during last season. Are there a few guys who can get open against some of the ACC opponents the same way Rambo did post-UNC? I think so. Will we utilize some of those sets and space? Very few know, I'd guess.

I say let's give it a minute and, once the games begin, let's see what happens with the offense's focus. And, which WR, if any, is given the opportunity on the outside. Things can look very different depending on the focus.
Click to expand...

On the flip side, it is (very_ rare that you exit a Fall Camp scrimmage with question marks about an entire unit and that unit looks good in the regular season. The main exception being the OL. DL is almost always ahead of the OL in scrimmage 1. But WRs? That's a legit concern in my book.
 
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DTP said:
But if the drop ratio is the same, what difference is there? Isn’t it probably better for the offense overall if a guy with a high drop percentage gets fewer targets?

I’m more worried about our guys’ ability to get open. If you can consistently beat coverage, occasional drops aren’t the end of the world. If you struggle beating coverage, I don’t care if you never drop a pass because you’ll never get an opportunity. Fans killed Pope and Wiggins two years ago because of drops but the much bigger issue was their inability to get open, especially against more physical defensive backs.
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The difference is opportunities, meaning if you give a guy 100 targets & he catches 60 of them he had more opportunities to produce yards & TD’s. If you give a guy 50 targets & he only catches 30 of them, the production is a lot less. The drop rate only matters as the targets decrease, less targets with the same amount drops decreases the opportunities for production.

As to getting open I completely agree, but here’s the caveat, it’s a lot more difficult to get open in an Offense with different Splits & formations etc, so in theory, the ability to get open in a more conventional Offense is more contingent upon physical traits & concise route running than just the play design itself. Hence, why some of our WR’s might be further along if they were still in last year scheme & has taken some time to adjust to this year’s scheme which requires a lot more detail & precision.

It’s why the guy who has thrived the best thus far in the new system is the guy who’s the best route runner, Restrepo.

The others just may take some time to maturate before they get down the timing & execution aspects of the Offense.
 
Liberty City El said:
https://www.canesinsight.com/threads/spring-scrimmage-2.168862/post-5187543

☝🏽What I said about Rambo in April of 2021.

The parallel that people keep making from Rambo this time last year to this year’s group isn’t factoring in the difference between the two Offenses. If we were still running the same Offense as last year I don’t think there would be much if any concern at all because the targets are baked into the system, it’s literally manufactured into the scheme.

This Offense definitely utilizes the middle of the field a lot more with the primary focus being the TE & the Slot Y, therefore the distribution of targets to the Flanker & the Field/X on the outside is likely to decrease, especially when you also factor in we’ll be running it a lot more & using the RB’s out of the backfield a lot more as well.

The issue really just comes down to expectation vs reality; if people are expecting Rambo type of productivity from one of the outside WR’s I would guess they might be disappointed. However, Restrepo will probably get a ton of targets from the Slot, what that exactly translates to remains to be seen, but expecting one of the other WR’s to match Rambo’s #’s might be a little lofty, mainly because they simply won’t get as many opportunities.

We don’t run the same Offense as last year & we shouldn’t expect similar results. That’s not a bad thing, we could actually have a better Offense by working the TE’s & RB’s a lot more, but the concern with the rest of the WR group outside of Restrepo & possibly Keyshawn, is can they make a play to stretch the field & take the top off the Defense when necessary? Because not having that element makes the other elements of the Offense more difficult to operate in crucial moments against Defenses that can adjust & cut half the field off.

Simply put, the question becomes, do we/will we have a multifaceted Offense that can do everything, or will they struggle against Defenses that challenge our WR’s to beat them vs Press Man & deep?

We’ll all find out against TAMU that has a very physical Secondary...
Click to expand...
Good stuff

What we have seen for a while is when we get involved in these types of games, with physical teams/secondaries we end up playing our offense in a phone booth

Good teams just aren’t scared about us beating them deep

So that’s one of the big things I’m looking for in the A&M game is do they respect us deep or not

They likely won’t to start so we will have to earn it
 
JHallCanes said:
Good stuff

What we have seen for a while is when we get involved in these types of games, with physical teams/secondaries we end up playing our offense in a phone booth

Good teams just aren’t scared about us beating them deep

So that’s one of the big things I’m looking for in the A&M game is do they respect us deep or not

They likely won’t to start so we will have to earn it
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It’s the difference between a 9-3 & 10-2/11-1 type season...

If the Offense can attack Defenses in multiple ways, then all of the high expectations for the season will be justified.

But if you have an Offense that has an exploitable flaw, it becomes a matter of time until a DC figures it out.

Take the 2020 season for example, against Louisville & FSU the Offense looked we could steamroll over anybody, until we played Clemson, then the glaring flaw poked it’s ugly head...

I’m not writing off the Offense right now because they haven’t taken a single snap yet in season, but it’s still a legitimate question to ask IF we have what it takes on the Outside to keep from being game-planned against in a way in which we have no counterpunch?

Meaning, what will they do if teams that have the personnel decide to stack the Box & dare us to beat them Deep?

Hopefully, we’ll have an answer.
 
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Liberty City El said:
It’s the difference between a 9-3 & 10-2/11-1 type season...

If the Offense can attack Defenses in multiple ways, then all of the high expectations for the season will be justified.

But if you have an Offense that has an exploitable flaw, it becomes a matter of time until a DC figures it out.

Take the 2020 season for example, against Louisville & FSU the Offense looked we could steamroll over anybody, until we played Clemson, then the glaring flaw poked it’s ugly head...

I’m not writing off the Offense right now because they haven’t taken a single snap yet in season, but it’s still a legitimate question to ask IF we have what it takes on the Outside to keep from being game-planned against in a way in which we have no counterpunch?

Meaning, what will do if teams that have the personnel tack the Box & dare us to beat them Deep?

Hopefully, we’ll have an answer.
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Couldn’t agree more

It will negate the big play ability of our TEs breaking free in space if the WRs aren’t being respected

I think there’s some talent in the room of course and like you’ve been saying, Rambo wasn’t the guy until the season got rolling

Someone has to take that alpha dog step in the WR room
 
Liberty City El said:
It’s the difference between a 9-3 & 10-2/11-1 type season...

If the Offense can attack Defenses in multiple ways, then all of the high expectations for the season will be justified.

But if you have an Offense that has an exploitable flaw, it becomes a matter of time until a DC figures it out.

Take the 2020 season for example, against Louisville & FSU the Offense looked we could steamroll over anybody, until we played Clemson, then the glaring flaw poked it’s ugly head...

I’m not writing off the Offense right now because they haven’t taken a single snap yet in season, but it’s still a legitimate question to ask IF we have what it takes on the Outside to keep from being game-planned against in a way in which we have no counterpunch?

Meaning, what will they do if teams that have the personnel decide to stack the Box & dare us to beat them Deep?

Hopefully, we’ll have an answer.
Click to expand...
@SouthParkCane @Liberty City El I’m so darn grateful for the insight you guys provide. It’s just part of what makes this place special. Thank you for sharing the way you do. My biggest question is can you overcome the lack of a Rambo by stretching the field with the seams with a TE? We have three dudes there who can really run. Can Gattis scheme around our deficiencies? Watching Michigan vs UGA it didn’t seem like it. But I’m hopeful.
 
Liberty City El said:
It’s the difference between a 9-3 & 10-2/11-1 type season...

If the Offense can attack Defenses in multiple ways, then all of the high expectations for the season will be justified.

But if you have an Offense that has an exploitable flaw, it becomes a matter of time until a DC figures it out.

Take the 2020 season for example, against Louisville & FSU the Offense looked we could steamroll over anybody, until we played Clemson, then the glaring flaw poked it’s ugly head...

I’m not writing off the Offense right now because they haven’t taken a single snap yet in season, but it’s still a legitimate question to ask IF we have what it takes on the Outside to keep from being game-planned against in a way in which we have no counterpunch?

Meaning, what will they do if teams that have the personnel decide to stack the Box & dare us to beat them Deep?

Hopefully, we’ll have an answer.
Click to expand...

By your reasoning, that makes 9-3/10-2 very likely.

Clemson and aTm are the teams that have the best shot to bottle us up. Both those teams have serious quarterback issues. That gives us a great chance to split those games.

Noone else really has the juice to both stymie us on the outside/over the top and outplay our defense.

We will be at least the second best defense in the conference. Our non elite opponents are going to struggle with our defense worse than our offense is.

A few drops ain't gonna stop this show. They will make it tough to beat elite teams if we don't step up.
 
TruCane81 said:
By your reasoning, that makes 9-3/10-2 very likely.

Clemson and aTm are the teams that have the best shot to bottle us up. Both those teams have serious quarterback issues. That gives us a great chance to split those games.

Noone else really has the juice to both stymie us on the outside/over the top and outplay our defense.

We will be at least the second best defense in the conference. Our non elite opponents are going to struggle with our defense worse than our offense is.

A few drops ain't gonna stop this show. They will make it tough to beat elite teams if we don't step up.
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“There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent..”

- Lao Tzu
 
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