fair qb comparison? morris & berlin

[bbcane]

I think as a fan base we need tO repent of our treatment of Brock. This is truly a curse.

 

[DapperSlapper]

Tebow has a strong arm

This is, by far, the absolute, most %$!#@%$! funny thing I have read in quite some time. Bravo.

 

[DiegoCane]

I think as a fan base we need tO repent of our treatment of Brock. This is truly a curse.

Brock was very good his Sr year (22 TD 6 INTs), he was pretty bad his Jr year (12 TD, 17 INTs) and was even replaced by Crudup for a start vs Cuse.

 

[bshaw28]

Berlin was really bad, especially in big games (outside of the Florida 2nd half). From what I've seen, I'll take Morris

 

[Consigliere]

No, I don't think they are much alike or similar.

Although the sample size on Morris is incredibly small. He seems to have a better arm and much better mobility. Brock did pretty good his final season, I hope Morris has a TD:INT ratio like that.

 

[bbcane]

Berlin was really bad, especially in big games (outside of the Florida 2nd half). From what I've seen, I'll take Morris

Ugh ok. Look at his senior numbers above. Big games? Like Florida and never lost to fl. State. Can you be more specific with the big games.
I like Morris but he is virtually unproven. Hopfully he can put it together consistently this year, not just show flashes here and there.

 

[stat1124]

I will have to concur that Morris seems from what we have seen to be better on the run and I think he delivers the ball better on the run. Brock always ran like he "DIDNT" want to run. When Morris tucks the ball, he is getting after it. Case in Point the Maryland game when he took the ball around the edge to score. I think Brock had a pretty good arm no doubt, I know SMorris throws hard but if it can not be consistently accurate, that strong arm means nothing. I think he will this year and I think he has the potential to put up Brock's Senior year numbers. We shall see. I will say this though...when Brock was bad...he was REALLLY bad. Too Streaky of a QB for me to cherish in high regards.

 

[bbcane]

Berlin threw for 5,099 yards and 34 touchdowns during his Miami career and finished with a 19–5 record as the team's starting quarterback. He is remembered for his toughness and leadership and for going a combined 5–0 against Miami's archrivals, Florida (2–0) and Florida State (3-0).

Morris does this. Build a statue

 

[cf3000]

Brock could have been waaaaay better if Coker would have been able to remove his head from his *** and see that Brock was just a better spread (2 minute offense) guy.

There is no shame in that line of thinking. Are we a spread team? No. But smart coach's play to the strength's of their particular team.

Coker and our OC those 2 seasons were constantly trying to stick a square peg into a round hole when there was no reason to. Dammit Coker was an abortion.

I'm still convinced that in a spread, no-huddle look we could have made something out of Hester, to say nothing of how much better Berlin would have looked. We had decent enough receivers and backs, and giving #4 some Reggie Bush-type packages would have been easy to mix in, if you actually gameplanned worth a ****. Problem was we just had no creative spark at all in the coaching dept. Coker was afraid of his own shadow.

Move Hester into the wildcat and opposing teams would have to call timeout. Hester didn't get the ball in his hands near enough times when he was here.

 

[cf3000]

Berlin never beat VT, and he is responsible for the ******* stupidest loss in UM history- that 10-7 debacle at home vs Tennessee that maybe have cost us a national championship game. I mean, I could even forgive him for the 31-7 road loss because VT is tough up there, but how the **** you can't score more than 7 at home against a garbage squad? I'm still mad about that one.

His int late in the game, with Winslow wide open in the flats. A killer. That game was horrific, in that I still believed we were going to win. Until Taylor fumbled the punt. Am I remembering that correctly?

 

[bshaw28]

Berlin was really bad, especially in big games (outside of the Florida 2nd half). From what I've seen, I'll take Morris

Ugh ok. Look at his senior numbers above. Big games? Like Florida and never lost to fl. State. Can you be more specific with the big games.
I like Morris but he is virtually unproven. Hopfully he can put it together consistently this year, not just show flashes here and there.

Berlin played with Gore, Hester, Winslow, Olsen, Parrish, Moss, Vilma, Wilfork, Taylor, DJ Williams, McIntosh, Beason, Meriweather, etc. His O Line had 4 NFL players - Carey, Winston, Myers and Butler. The talent Berlin played with was on another level.

For his 5-0 record against FSU and Florida....

I can only credit Berlin with the 38-33 Florida game. He caught fire and the comeback was epic, no question. But Berlin was part of the reason Miami was down so much, throwing 2 picks and a losing fumble that was returned for a TD before he made the comeback.

In the other 4 games:

- Miami defense gave up 14, 14, 10, and 10 points.
- Berlin had a combined 3 td passes, 7 ints, and 2 fumbles lost.
- Miami defense/special teams had a combined 3 td's (Taylor, Hester, Parrish) - as many as Berlin threw for
- Take out those 3 dst td's, and Berlin led the offense to 15, 16, 16, and 13 points.
- Berlin threw for 255, 181, 171, and 157 yards in those games.

All were won in spite of Berlin, not because of him.

In 2003:

Miami went 11-2 despite Berlin throwing 12 td's and 17 ints.

Miami lost 31-7 to VT. Berlin had 0 td's and 2 ints in that game. VT was 2-5 over their last 7 games that year. The 2 VT wins were over Miami by 24 and Temple by 1.

Miami's other loss was to Tennessee at home, 10-6. Berlin had 0 td's, 2 ints, 1 lost fumble. It snapped a 26 game home win streak. It was the first time Miami failed to score a TD at home since 1984. Tennessee had 170 yds of total offense - 81 passing, 89 rushing.

With even decent QB play, that 2003 team is in the National Championship game.

In 2004:

Berlin was much better - 22 td's and 6 ints. Miami was 9-3. But Miami did lose to an unranked UNC team and an unranked Clemson. Miami also lost 16-10 to VT at home with a trip to a BCS bowl on the line. Berlin had 0 tds, 1 int., 1 lost fumble.

So, if Berlin is given credit for always beating our rivals I think it's important to note his stats in these games:

Florida: 2-0 record. 3 tds, 3 ints, 1 fumble lost
FSU: 3-0 record. 2 tds, 6 ints, 2 fumbles lost
VT: 0-2 record. 0 tds, 3 ints, 1 fumble lost

All Told: 5-2 record. 5 td's, 12 ints, 4 fumbles. Thats 3 turnovers for 1 td. 2 turnovers were returned for td's. Berlin threw for 181 yards or less in 5 of 7 games.

 

[stat1124]

That is exactly my reason why I could never rise him to the top. For every game that he did manage to pull off, I still left the game saying "that **** Berlin is sabotaging the team! LOL

Berlin was really bad, especially in big games (outside of the Florida 2nd half). From what I've seen, I'll take Morris

Ugh ok. Look at his senior numbers above. Big games? Like Florida and never lost to fl. State. Can you be more specific with the big games.
I like Morris but he is virtually unproven. Hopfully he can put it together consistently this year, not just show flashes here and there.

Berlin played with Gore, Hester, Winslow, Olsen, Parrish, Moss, Vilma, Wilfork, Taylor, DJ Williams, McIntosh, Beason, Meriweather, etc. His O Line had 4 NFL players - Carey, Winston, Myers and Butler. The talent Berlin played with was on another level.

For his 5-0 record against FSU and Florida....

I can only credit Berlin with the 38-33 Florida game. He caught fire and the comeback was epic, no question. But Berlin was part of the reason Miami was down so much, throwing 2 picks and a losing fumble that was returned for a TD before he made the comeback.

In the other 4 games:

- Miami defense gave up 14, 14, 10, and 10 points.
- Berlin had a combined 3 td passes, 7 ints, and 2 fumbles lost.
- Miami defense/special teams had a combined 3 td's (Taylor, Hester, Parrish) - as many as Berlin threw for
- Take out those 3 dst td's, and Berlin led the offense to 15, 16, 16, and 13 points.
- Berlin threw for 255, 181, 171, and 157 yards in those games.

All were won in spite of Berlin, not because of him.

In 2003:

Miami went 11-2 despite Berlin throwing 12 td's and 17 ints.

Miami lost 31-7 to VT. Berlin had 0 td's and 2 ints in that game. VT was 2-5 over their last 7 games that year. The 2 VT wins were over Miami by 24 and Temple by 1.

Miami's other loss was to Tennessee at home, 10-6. Berlin had 0 td's, 2 ints, 1 lost fumble. It snapped a 26 game home win streak. It was the first time Miami failed to score a TD at home since 1984. Tennessee had 170 yds of total offense - 81 passing, 89 rushing.

With even decent QB play, that 2003 team is in the National Championship game.

In 2004:

Berlin was much better - 22 td's and 6 ints. Miami was 9-3. But Miami did lose to an unranked UNC team and an unranked Clemson. Miami also lost 16-10 to VT at home with a trip to a BCS bowl on the line. Berlin had 0 tds, 1 int., 1 lost fumble.

So, if Berlin is given credit for always beating our rivals I think it's important to note his stats in these games:

Florida: 2-0 record. 3 tds, 3 ints, 1 fumble lost
FSU: 3-0 record. 2 tds, 6 ints, 2 fumbles lost
VT: 0-2 record. 0 tds, 3 ints, 1 fumble lost

All Told: 5-2 record. 5 td's, 12 ints, 4 fumbles. Thats 3 turnovers for 1 td. 2 turnovers were returned for td's. Berlin threw for 181 yards or less in 5 of 7 games.

 

[bbcane]

Ok, but he was coached by coker. His receivers were also Ryan Moore and lance legget. But yea his 03 seasOn is worse than I thought. Heres to hoping Morris has a 04 Berlin type year.

 

[stat1124]

Actually his career was worse than you thought but he had a **** of a defense and special teams that bailed him out of alot of games.

Ok, but he was coached by coker. His receivers were also Ryan Moore and lance legget. But yea his 03 seasOn is worse than I thought. Heres to hoping Morris has a 04 Berlin type year.

 

[cwoy2j]

Berlin was really bad, especially in big games (outside of the Florida 2nd half). From what I've seen, I'll take Morris

Ugh ok. Look at his senior numbers above. Big games? Like Florida and never lost to fl. State. Can you be more specific with the big games.
I like Morris but he is virtually unproven. Hopfully he can put it together consistently this year, not just show flashes here and there.

Berlin played with Gore, Hester, Winslow, Olsen, Parrish, Moss, Vilma, Wilfork, Taylor, DJ Williams, McIntosh, Beason, Meriweather, etc. His O Line had 4 NFL players - Carey, Winston, Myers and Butler. The talent Berlin played with was on another level.

For his 5-0 record against FSU and Florida....

I can only credit Berlin with the 38-33 Florida game. He caught fire and the comeback was epic, no question. But Berlin was part of the reason Miami was down so much, throwing 2 picks and a losing fumble that was returned for a TD before he made the comeback.

In the other 4 games:

- Miami defense gave up 14, 14, 10, and 10 points.
- Berlin had a combined 3 td passes, 7 ints, and 2 fumbles lost.
- Miami defense/special teams had a combined 3 td's (Taylor, Hester, Parrish) - as many as Berlin threw for
- Take out those 3 dst td's, and Berlin led the offense to 15, 16, 16, and 13 points.
- Berlin threw for 255, 181, 171, and 157 yards in those games.

All were won in spite of Berlin, not because of him.

In 2003:

Miami went 11-2 despite Berlin throwing 12 td's and 17 ints.

Miami lost 31-7 to VT. Berlin had 0 td's and 2 ints in that game. VT was 2-5 over their last 7 games that year. The 2 VT wins were over Miami by 24 and Temple by 1.

Miami's other loss was to Tennessee at home, 10-6. Berlin had 0 td's, 2 ints, 1 lost fumble. It snapped a 26 game home win streak. It was the first time Miami failed to score a TD at home since 1984. Tennessee had 170 yds of total offense - 81 passing, 89 rushing.

With even decent QB play, that 2003 team is in the National Championship game.

In 2004:

Berlin was much better - 22 td's and 6 ints. Miami was 9-3. But Miami did lose to an unranked UNC team and an unranked Clemson. Miami also lost 16-10 to VT at home with a trip to a BCS bowl on the line. Berlin had 0 tds, 1 int., 1 lost fumble.

So, if Berlin is given credit for always beating our rivals I think it's important to note his stats in these games:

Florida: 2-0 record. 3 tds, 3 ints, 1 fumble lost
FSU: 3-0 record. 2 tds, 6 ints, 2 fumbles lost
VT: 0-2 record. 0 tds, 3 ints, 1 fumble lost

All Told: 5-2 record. 5 td's, 12 ints, 4 fumbles. Thats 3 turnovers for 1 td. 2 turnovers were returned for td's. Berlin threw for 181 yards or less in 5 of 7 games.

This is where the Coker-T offense came to fruition, because we couldn't trust BB not to throw it to the other team. I'm pretty sure VT had like 250 yards of offense or less when they beat us 31-7 too, just a bunch of terrible turnovers and typical Hokies capitalize on everything.

I can't bear to look up a game recap but I also think they only had one offensive td that game too. A long pass. Their offense really didn't do much if I'm not mistaken.

 

[RepTheGables]

From what we have seen I think Morris compares to Brock very closely in arm strength, etc. I brought this up in an earlier thread and had people coming outta da woodwerks to tell that Morris had an elite arm that was way stronger than Brocks.

To be fair, it was a thread about Stephen Morris having "elite" arm strength and you called his arm strength "above average." I guess we'll have to see which shines through this season, but TIFWIW that Fisch likened Morris's arm to Cutler's...

And like many have said, arm strength won't get you anything by itself (Kyle Wright, we're talking about you). I'll be very interested to see if Morris can take the next step when it comes to going through a progression and moving defenses with his eyes.

 

[UMcanesfan420]

Nobody is saying Berlin was Ken Dorsey, but FWIW, Dorsey had some games where he was bailed out by the defense so are we going to knitpick at that too? Berlin was a tough cat who came back in games after guys like Tyler McMeans let guys come in and drop concussions on him. He had to deal with a ****** coach too. Seeing what we've been through since Berlin at the QB position, I really have alot of respect looking back at Berlin's time here.

 

[stat1124]

If you are trying to suggest that Dorsey defense had to bail him out as much as Berlin's defense....I can ensure you my friend that you are factually incorrect.

Nobody is saying Berlin was Ken Dorsey, but FWIW, Dorsey had some games where he was bailed out by the defense so are we going to knitpick at that too? Berlin was a tough cat who came back in games after guys like Tyler McMeans let guys come in and drop concussions on him. He had to deal with a ****** coach too. Seeing what we've been through since Berlin at the QB position, I really have alot of respect looking back at Berlin's time here.

 

[bshaw28]

Ok, but he was coached by coker. His receivers were also Ryan Moore and lance legget. But yea his 03 seasOn is worse than I thought. Heres to hoping Morris has a 04 Berlin type year.

I don't want to come across as attacking you. I think a lot of Canes look back at Berlin and think - he really wasn't that bad, Leggett and Moore were his WR's, he had Coker as a coach, he won in big games, etc.

I just remember him as holding those teams back, and Miami winning in spite of Berlin, not because of him. He also had Roscoe Parrish, Sinorice Moss, Kellen Winslow, Greg Olsen, and Kevin Beard to throw too. There was plenty of talent.

But I'm all in with Morris. I think he has the "it" factor and can lead us. He's been put in some pretty bad situations - going from 4th string to starter his freshman year. Relieving Jacory's 4 int's in the bowl game vs. ND. The Maryland game with the suspensions.

I'm a little worried about his accuracy at times - but his leadership, arm strength, intangibles - all seem better than Berlin ever had

 

[DMoney]

Tebow has a strong arm

This is, by far, the absolute, most %$!#@%$! funny thing I have read in quite some time. Bravo.

He does have a strong arm.