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Derrick Harmon - DT MSU

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dolemite79 said:
Gaby saying barrow is coming for his visit but doesn't look like Harmon is
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I said what I said... (unless he ends up making it)
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Maybe the whole "package deal" thing was never really true and was just something the media made up and these guys want to go their seperate ways and blaze their own path? Neither of them ever openly said they wanted to attend the same school. That was just message board and media rumor. For Harmon to not even want to visit knowing we are throwing big money at DTs goes to show maybe he knows Barrow has heavy interest if UM comes with the right offer and he would much rather goes his own way. (Colorado or USC) Just a thought.
 
That’s a fail, no other way to describe it. We needed this kid to get to our goal of playoffs/ ACC championship level.

Barrow is a good player and would be glad to have him but the two Michigan state dts are not interchangeable… “get one of the two and im happy” doesn’t make sense because they’re not the same player. Harmon is the body type we’re missing and can do things no other DT on our roster can do, he’s a human wrecking ball who collapses the pocket, pushes the line back and demands double teams. He would have made everyone elses stats better that’s the type of player he is.

Fail if NIL didn’t step up imo.
 
RightSaidFred said:
That’s a fail, no other way to describe it. We needed this kid to get to our goal of playoffs/ ACC championship level.

Barrow is a good player and would be glad to have him but the two Michigan state dts are not interchangeable… “get one of the two and im happy” doesn’t make sense because they’re not the same player. Harmon is the body type we’re missing and can do things no other DT on our roster can do, he’s a human wrecking ball who collapses the pocket, pushes the line back and demands double teams. He would have made everyone elses stats better that’s the type of player he is.

Fail if NIL didn’t step up imo.
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You really think NIL is the reason?
 
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RightSaidFred said:
That’s a fail, no other way to describe it. We needed this kid to get to our goal of playoffs/ ACC championship level.

Barrow is a good player and would be glad to have him but the two Michigan state dts are not interchangeable… “get one of the two and im happy” doesn’t make sense because they’re not the same player. Harmon is the body type we’re missing and can do things no other DT on our roster can do, he’s a human wrecking ball who collapses the pocket, pushes the line back and demands double teams. He would have made everyone elses stats better that’s the type of player he is.

Fail if NIL didn’t step up imo.
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So this one DT was the difference between us winning the ACC or not winning the ACC? Your takes usually suck but this is bad even for your standards.
 
Josh said:
You really think NIL is the reason?
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Yes. Portal kids are mercenaries. We needed to separate from the pack.

We’ve done a great job on offense in the portal but defense has been average as **** ngl. Even with Barrow it’s still just average and when you factor in the talent we lost to the NFL and portal I think it’s debatable if we even got any better on that side of the ball. Linebacker is the only position group on defense I feel is good enough right now plus our three top DE’s if everyone stays healthy, still thin at safety, CB, DT, and missing elite talent at all those spots.

We shouldn’t have waited for spring portal season when the talent level overall is less. When you do that you have to land all of your targets…for example if we would have tried for Walter Nolan nobody would complain about missing on Harmon but it is what it is.
 
RightSaidFred said:
Yes. Portal kids are mercenaries. We needed to separate from the pack.

We’ve done a great job on offense in the portal but defense has been average as **** ngl. Even with Barrow it’s still just average and when you factor in the talent we lost to the NFL and portal I think it’s debatable if we even got any better on that side of the ball. Linebacker is the only position group on defense I feel is good enough right now plus our three top DE’s if everyone stays healthy, still thin at safety, CB, DT, and missing elite talent at all those spots.

We shouldn’t have waited for spring portal season when the talent level overall is less. When you do that you have to land all of your targets…for example if we would have tried for Walter Nolan nobody would complain about missing on Harmon but it is what it is.
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We got 2 DT's in the first portal opening in Cook and Clark. This portal is still open.......
 
Landing Barrow gives us an upgrade over JHH but still doesn't address the lack of snap counts we'll have from prototypical 300+ space eaters.

Michigan last year had Mason Graham (318 lbs), Kris Jenkins (305 lbs), Kenneth Grant (339 lbs), and Cam Goode (314 lbs) as their top four IDL as far as snaps go.

Texas had T'Vondre Sweat (362 lbs), Byron Murphy (308 lbs), and Alfred Collins (317 lbs) as their top 3 IDL as far as snaps go.

FSU had Farmer and Lovett eating up snaps at 300+ lbs and Fiske being very close to 300lbs.

Being 300+ lbs is in no way shape or form a statically significant threshold that determines success. But if we only add Barrow, then we'll really only have 1-2 guys (CJ Clark at 305 lbs and probably 1 of Moten/Horton get some snaps on the interior) that end up getting snaps that are 300+ lbs.

We can still be successful on the DL but not ideal IMO. We need another big body in there.
 
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JZCane0825 said:
So this one DT was the difference between us winning the ACC or not winning the ACC? Your takes usually suck but this is bad even for your standards.
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Yeah DT is an important position and I think Harmon is a difference maker especially in tough games against strong competition. Kids like this are the difference between typical ACC / PAC / Big 12 teams and top end SEC / Big Ten teams…. Big, physical, impose your will types

Was the piece we’re missing. Barrow is nice but we have others like him, Harmon is the piece we’re missing
 
Bigbenchcane said:
We got 2 DT's in the first portal opening in Cook and Clark. This portal is still open.......
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Have Cook stand next to Harmon and you’ll get my point. It’s not about “having a DT” as if they’re all the same…completely different body types who do completely different things to impact what you can do on defense
 
RightSaidFred said:
That’s a fail, no other way to describe it. We needed this kid to get to our goal of playoffs/ ACC championship level.

Barrow is a good player and would be glad to have him but the two Michigan state dts are not interchangeable… “get one of the two and im happy” doesn’t make sense because they’re not the same player. Harmon is the body type we’re missing and can do things no other DT on our roster can do, he’s a human wrecking ball who collapses the pocket, pushes the line back and demands double teams. He would have made everyone elses stats better that’s the type of player he is.

Fail if NIL didn’t step up imo.
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It wasn't a fail.
 
Gi0logy said:
Landing Barrow gives us an upgrade over JHH but still doesn't address the lack of snap counts we'll have from prototypical 300+ space eaters.

Michigan last year had Mason Graham (318 lbs), Kris Jenkins (305 lbs), Kenneth Grant (339 lbs), and Cam Goode (314 lbs) as their top four IDL as far as snaps go.

Texas had T'Vondre Sweat (362 lbs), Byron Murphy (308 lbs), and Alfred Collins (317 lbs) as their top 3 IDL as far as snaps go.

FSU had Farmer and Lovett eating up snaps at 300+ lbs and Fiske being very close to 300lbs.

Being 300+ lbs is in no way shape or form a statically significant threshold that determines success. But if we only add Barrow, then we'll really only have 1-2 guys (CJ Clark at 305 lbs and probably 1 of Moten/Horton get some snaps on the interior) that end up getting snaps that are 300+ lbs.

We can still be successful on the DL but not ideal IMO. We need another big body in there.
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This. We are too small at DT and that will be an issue against certain teams
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
It wasn't a fail.
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If we don’t land him then that’s how I would characterize it. Good job in the portal so far, not good enough though unfortunately since we need a massive year this year.

Offensive talent looks good, defense is still suspect and didn’t get addressed adequately
 
That’s a bummer really thought Harmon would solidify the Dline. I still hope we get Barrow as he’s still a need.
 
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RightSaidFred said:
Yeah DT is an important position and I think Harmon is a difference maker especially in tough games against strong competition. Kids like this are the difference between typical ACC / PAC / Big 12 teams and top end SEC / Big Ten teams…. Big, physical, impose your will types

Was the piece we’re missing. Barrow is nice but we have others like him, Harmon is the piece we’re missing
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I don’t believe 1 DT will make or break our season. A QB yes (and Mario has that covered). I’m confident Guidry can scheme around any 1 “deficiency” as he did last year when we had several guys on IR.
 
423Hurricane said:
I don’t believe 1 DT will make or break our season. A QB yes (and Mario has that covered). I’m confident Guidry can scheme around any 1 “deficiency” as he did last year when we had several guys on IR.
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Against lesser teams I agree. He would have made the difference against better teams though.

Just disappointing since this was supposed to be “all in” must win type of season. Good job in the portal but not good enough. Good job on offense, but some areas on defense went unaddressed and we will definitely notice that at points during the season IMO
 
RightSaidFred said:
Yes. Portal kids are mercenaries. We needed to separate from the pack.

We’ve done a great job on offense in the portal but defense has been average as **** ngl. Even with Barrow it’s still just average and when you factor in the talent we lost to the NFL and portal I think it’s debatable if we even got any better on that side of the ball. Linebacker is the only position group on defense I feel is good enough right now plus our three top DE’s if everyone stays healthy, still thin at safety, CB, DT, and missing elite talent at all those spots.

We shouldn’t have waited for spring portal season when the talent level overall is less. When you do that you have to land all of your targets…for example if we would have tried for Walter Nolan nobody would complain about missing on Harmon but it is what it is.
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While I do not believe NIL was the reason for Harmon canceling his visit, you make some excellent points. I agree with most including your assessment that Safety, CB and DT are thin but I disagree that those positions lack elite talent. Their is some elite talent at DT its just that they are true freshmen. Damari Brown is an elite talent at CB with Richard and Stafford having the potential to be very good players but they are young and we are thin there. Safety needs the biggest infusion of elite talent with true freshman Zaquan Patterson being the only truly elite player at the position. The next 2 classes will see us stack elite talent at all three of those position groups on top of the young elite talent already there. The future is 🌞.
 
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