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DeMario Tolan, 2022 LB offered - Part II (& Commits to LSU)

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Rellyrell said:
OK, to be fair, let’s talk tale of the tape:

Ed O since 2016:
-45-14 record
-1 divisional title
-1 conference title
-3 -1 in bowl games
-2 NY6 bowl wins
-1 National Championship
-18 top 2 round draft picks (9 of 18 came from defense)
-7 LBs drafted in the first 3 rounds

Miami since 2016 (w/ Manny):
-40-23 record
-1 divisional title
-1- 4 in bowl games
-3 top 2 round draft picks (2 of 3 came from defense)
-0 LBs drafted in the first 3 rounds (and only 1 LB drafted, period, during this time)


We need to really start being honest w/ ourselves as to y a kid may choose another school, especially a LB. Manny has not been that guy either recruiting this position or showcasing these guys. If anything, this scheme leaves them looking like low IQ players. Right now we have a Rush DE in HS playing LB, a S in HS playing LB, and a guy who recruiting services once had as the 1200th ranked player in the nation as a MLB.

Bruh; that’s a problem.
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Manny’s going into his 5th year as HC already?
 
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IndayArtHauz said:
Manny’s going into his 5th year as HC already?
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Manny has been here going on 6 yrs, si or no?

In his 6 yrs, he’s been in charge of either a whole unit or the team, si or no?

In his 6 yrs, he’s been responsible for overseeing &/or directly recruiting for defense for 5 cycles, si or no?

Since 2016, his defense has produced 1 LB drafted in the latter rounds, si or no?

If the answer is si to any of the above referenced questions, then re-read my QP w/ a fresh set of eyes filled w/ openness.
 
wspcane said:
Keep Sam Howell honest? My man, they ran for 550 yards and literally averaged a first down per rush (10.1 yds). Howell only had to attempt 23 passes. That was not because we were protecting our CBs.
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It's also possible that fans are blowing things out of proportion. Maybe it's just a case where a bunch of teenagers that had just gone on the road and drubbed Duke 48-0 the week before were feeling themselves because they were on a 5 game win streak, and they were lazy and unfocused in practice, which translated to an awful showing on the field. The players thought a home game against UNC wasn't going to be nearly as challenging as it turned out to be (the year before, UNC at home beat a 6 win UM team primarily because Miami's kicker got the yips and couldn't kick FGs). Unfortunately for Miami, Mack Brown had his team laser focused on Miami. Yeah, the game probably mattered a lot to Diaz, but I don't think players felt that same urgency (personally, I've never really considered UNC a major rival so I can understand that sentiment. I get a lot more invested when we play VT than when I play UNC). Miami players weren't focused, just like UNC players weren't focused earlier in the season an atrocious FSU- they thought it would a cakewalk and took a L. Things like motivation matter a lot with teenagers.

Would it surprise you to learn that VT actually had a better rushing offense than UNC last year? UNC was ranked #11, VT had the #10 rushing offense. VT was like a Paul Johnson GT offense from a few years back, pretty much their entire offense was the run game (the stats weirdly showed that whenever Hooker passed for more than 200 yards, it was basically a guaranteed L for VT). Miami managed to play disciplined defense (LBs were absolutely vital to keeping Hooker's damage to a minimum) and the defense contained their run game rather well.
 
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TimeBum said:
It's also possible that fans are blowing things out of proportion. Maybe it's just a case where a bunch of teenagers that had just gone on the road and drubbed Duke 48-0 the week before were feeling themselves because they were on a 5 game win streak, and they were lazy and unfocused in practice, which translated to an awful showing on the field. The players thought a home game against UNC wasn't going to be nearly as challenging as it turned out to be (the year before, UNC at home beat a 6 win UM team primarily because Miami's kicker got the yips and couldn't kick FGs). Unfortunately for Miami, Mack Brown had his team laser focused on Miami. Yeah, the game probably mattered a lot to Diaz, but I don't think players felt that same urgency (personally, I've never really considered UNC a major rival so I can understand that sentiment. I get a lot more invested when we play VT than when I play UNC). Miami players weren't focused, just like UNC players weren't focused earlier in the season an atrocious FSU- they thought it would a cakewalk and took a L. Things like motivation matter a lot with teenagers.

Would it surprise you to learn that VT actually had a better rushing offense than UNC last year? UNC was ranked #11, VT had the #10 rushing offense. VT was like a Paul Johnson GT offense from a few years back, pretty much their entire offense was the run game (the stats weirdly showed that whenever Hooker passed for more than 200 yards, it was basically a guaranteed L for VT). Miami managed to play disciplined defense (LBs were absolutely vital to keeping Hooker's damage to a minimum) and the defense contained their run game rather well.
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I am not sure how our performance vs VT impacts our performance vs UNC or vice versa. Both games count the same towards our division, Manny is paid the same, and we also had defensive struggles against Louisville, Clemson, and NC State. All I am saying is I do not think better CB play will mask the deficiencies of our LBs if we don't play with gap integrity, proper alignment, tweak the scheme, and coach up our LBs to know where they are supposed to go.

I hear what you are saying that those games just happen, but we also have seen similar problems for a couple of years now and those warning signs were not really attended to. We watched McCloud and Pinckney run themselves out of plays for years without it being fixed. They need to start hitting on LB recruits, developing them, and putting them in positions to succeed.
 
Rellyrell said:
Manny has been here going on 6 yrs, si or no?

In his 6 yrs, he’s been in charge of either a whole unit or the team, si or no?

In his 6 yrs, he’s been responsible for overseeing &/or directly recruiting for defense for 5 cycles, si or no?

Since 2016, his defense has produced 1 LB drafted in the latter rounds, si or no?

If the answer is si to any of the above referenced questions, then re-read my QP w/ a fresh set of eyes filled w/ openness.
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I did read it.

You’re giving coach O credit for Aranda’s D and framed the entire Miami program’s weak performances as Manny’s. You listed the program record with “under Manny”, like he was the HC. Man, his D was the only thing keeping us alive those first two years while he wasn’t the head guy.

You’re conflating two groups of info (1. results of the overall program over 5 years, and 2. the production of LBs) and managing to give Coach O all credit while giving Manny all blame.

Its very easy to say Manny’s LBs have been bad and LSU’s have been good without almost any of the other data you mentioned. It’s easy to say our LB recruiting has been abysmal, in my opinion because Manny thought he was too smart for the position and devalued it, while LSU’s has been great. Coach O has almost nothing to do with that, everyone who’s honest knows it was Aranda.

Blame Manny for terrible LBs (granted, this was a recent issue, not a 5 year one), but LSU was in the literally 120s in total defense last year. There were 3 teams worst than them in the entire country.

I know some people are going through a fit right now because we are about to lose Tolan. That’s fine, I’m ****ed too. But there’s no need to stretch the truth to fit a larger story that frankly isn’t there.
 
After seeing our linebackers get washed, fill incorrect holes, abandon anchor points, and generally just get beat to the edge how can anyone sit here and tell me LB isn’t a problem because of our base? Maybe we can cover it up with some scheme adjustments, which seems like the route we want to go. The 4-2-5 is our base now, but those two linebackers are pretty **** important. If I’m an OC, I’m running stretch zone and delayed counter trap all day every day until we prove we can do something on it
 
NDE said:
amen. Mods here rarely give out any workings. I am also tired of the daily BS shiit show. You come here for info on recruiting and all you here are tantrums from a bunch of teenagers
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These recruiting threads are brutal for us. You should see how many deleted comments there are from just this thread where posters tried to go all Real Housewives on each other. If today wasnt his announcement even more would be gone.
 
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Mikesmith29150 said:
I'm not even worried about lb recruiting. Like someone else posted we only run 2 lbs on defense. We need to hit on dl and corner backs especially.
If our lb play isn't good this season Manny can hire someone that's good at recruiting and development like he did this year.
People talking trash about Manny in this thread, they forgot the man hired a good lb coach that left for UCF to be a DC. Please stop the lie that Manny can't see the problem.
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Facts
 
Keep Sam Howell honest? My man, they ran for 550 yards and literally averaged a first down per rush (10.1 yds). Howell only had to attempt 23 passes. That was not because we were protecting our CBs.
What did Howell do on those completions? 14/19 for 223. He thrashed us which completely opens the run when you have to play off with sub par DBs. He killed us the year before from the beginning too as a true freshman. He happens to be talented and we decided that we were not going to let him beat us.
So Mack brought out his stable and showed Manny who his ***** was. Just because UNC didn’t need to use their QB for what he can do doesn’t mean that he wasn’t a threat to do it. I respect your opinion that having serviceable LBs would have helped make a difference.
62-26 is such a whooping that it didn’t matter if you and I were playing LB that game. We have many holes to fill and I believe that having a dominant DLine and shutdown CBs could cover for glaring weaknesses at LB. it would be great to have studs like we used to but we need to be relevant to pull top talent like that. In the meanwhile, if we can win some CB recruiting battles, perhaps we can clean up our weaknesses.
 
Cribby said:
It was that and no Tyrique type kids came available. I said all along they were cool using spots for next year but wouldn’t take anything but quality. The unlv kid was a need , there iwas questions about the interior then Clark got hurt. Plus Justice knew what he was getting. That gives us a guy who can play multiple spots in a pinch with an extra year eligibility.
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@Cribby , I believe you. But they're stupid AF is they're just relying on the LB room they've got. Plenty of LBs in the portal who would have been upgrades, even if not Stevenson or Rambo types. People laugh at that Vandy kid who went FBS. He would have started here without any question in my mind.

There are lots of things I like about Manny. His LB decisions are not one of them.
 
grover said:
@Cribby , I believe you. But they're stupid AF is they're just relying on the LB room they've got. Plenty of LBs in the portal who would have been upgrades, even if not Stevenson or Rambo types. People laugh at that Vandy kid who went FBS. He would have started here without any question in my mind.

There are lots of things I like about Manny. His LB decisions are not one of them.
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The kid wound up at a perennially bad FCS program after being in the portal since last year. Miami wasn't the only school in need of LB help. Maybe just maybe something was off about him beyond football that every other FBS program that needed help said no.
 
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grover said:
@Cribby , I believe you. But they're stupid AF is they're just relying on the LB room they've got. Plenty of LBs in the portal who would have been upgrades, even if not Stevenson or Rambo types. People laugh at that Vandy kid who went FBS. He would have started here without any question in my mind.

There are lots of things I like about Manny. His LB decisions are not one of them.
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They like Flagg a lot. Keontra flashed in spring even though he's new to the spot. 6 was also banged up all last year, he'll be back. Then mix in the youngsters. The staff is confident with what they have, they see them everyday a sits their asses if they're wrong. We'll see week one.
 
We need more linebackers, but not going to give up on our current LB room. Remember when everyone hated Zion? He improved every game and now has first round potential. There are a lot of things that went wrong in that UNC game. Most fans don't realjze how decimated and mentally exhausted that team and staff was going into the game due to covid issues.

Yes, we obviously need more athletes and better production at LB, but I don't think the unit is as bad as many believe
 
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IndayArtHauz said:
I did read it.

You’re giving coach O credit for Aranda’s D and framed the entire Miami program’s weak performances as Manny’s. You listed the program record with “under Manny”, like he was the HC. Man, his D was the only thing keeping us alive those first two years while he wasn’t the head guy.

You’re conflating two groups of info (1. results of the overall program over 5 years, and 2. the production of LBs) and managing to give Coach O all credit while giving Manny all blame.

Its very easy to say Manny’s LBs have been bad and LSU’s have been good without almost any of the other data you mentioned. It’s easy to say our LB recruiting has been abysmal, in my opinion because Manny thought he was too smart for the position and devalued it, while LSU’s has been great. Coach O has almost nothing to do with that, everyone who’s honest knows it was Aranda.

Blame Manny for terrible LBs (granted, this was a recent issue, not a 5 year one), but LSU was in the literally 120s in total defense last year. There were 3 teams worst than them in the entire country.

I know some people are going through a fit right now because we are about to lose Tolan. That’s fine, I’m ****ed too. But there’s no need to stretch the truth to fit a larger story that frankly isn’t there.
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LOL;

Stretch the truth?? What bizzaro world is this? Every single thing I posted was facts. Things that r both tangible & researchable.

If u wanna say “well the reason y Coach O won is b/c of his assistant coaches” that’s fine, but check it out, MANNY’s DEFENSE HAS PRODUCED ONE LB DRAFTED, PERIOD! That’s ALL on him. So again, like I responded to Timebum, all what U’re saying don’t mean chit, b/c Coach O can say, “hey, here at LSU, we’ve sent x,y,z to the The NFL since being here at HC.” Do u think some kid is going to say, “but yeah, what about Dave Arranda” though? Lol.

Man, some of ya’ll look at things from a micro level & don’t see a whole picture. There was no stretching of the truth. Facts r facts. If Coach O proves to be a Coker, well he’s got two more yrs to stink it up b4 that aroma of success wears off.
 
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