Defensive adjustments

[drifters1234]

Manny Navarro ‏@Manny_Navarro 1h
#Canes 1st team defense today: DL-Kamalu, Hamilton, Moore, Muhammad. LB-Perryman, Kirby, Figueroa. CB-Howard, Crawford. S-Bush, Carter

That's encouraging - there's injuries keeping a few guys out, but the only person in that list that most folks aren't counting on is Moore

I don't see much difference in terms of production between Hamilton/Moore. What have people seen from Hamilton to count on him? And that highlights are biggest problem for the past few years: weak at the DT spot. I can't recall any good defenses that are subpar at DT.

 

[Consigliere]

Student gets C's and D's taking AP classes at his high school. The next year, his advisor suggests he takes more basic level classes. He improves to B's and a couple A's. What is the conclusion?

You can do better than that.

Yeah probably. Either way, I think it is analogous enough.

I hear ya...The result stayed the same (2012-2013) but the road to get there was more difficult.

Student gets C's in regular classes but needs to get better grades. Student enrolls in a similar schedule the next year but the course-load is more challenging. Student gets a C in the more challenging course-load. The result was the same (C to C) but the course-load was more challenging.

If the goal is to get above a C, he didn't get above a C (hence improvement).

The course load difficulty changes from year to year but he still takes English, Math, Science etc.

Here, our ACC win total stayed the same (we had 5 wins in 2012, we got 5 wins in 2013). For the most part, our schedule stays the same (FSU, GT, UVA, UNC, VT and Duke + 2 ACC Teams) but in 2013 our ACC schedule was harder than 2012. This difficulty is random, it changes year to year and we play similar teams year to year. That is why measuring improvement should be done by the ACC performance.

The only reason people talk about the SOS is because there was no actual improvement in terms of wins. If there was actual win improvement you would not need to bring up the SOS. Sure the schedule could be WEAK SAUCE but it doesn't matter since it is somewhat consistent and we have no control over the quality of ACC teams (they go up like Duke, they go down like UNC).

So in 2014, if you want to see ACTUAL improvement, start with winning 6 games in the ACC (this should be the low bar).

 

[Cane Dynasty]

Manny Navarro ‏@Manny_Navarro 1h
#Canes 1st team defense today: DL-Kamalu, Hamilton, Moore, Muhammad. LB-Perryman, Kirby, Figueroa. CB-Howard, Crawford. S-Bush, Carter

4-3?

 

[NorthFlaCane]

Manny Navarro ‏@Manny_Navarro 1h
#Canes 1st team defense today: DL-Kamalu, Hamilton, Moore, Muhammad. LB-Perryman, Kirby, Figueroa. CB-Howard, Crawford. S-Bush, Carter

That's encouraging - there's injuries keeping a few guys out, but the only person in that list that most folks aren't counting on is Moore

I don't see much difference in terms of production between Hamilton/Moore. What have people seen from Hamilton to count on him? And that highlights are biggest problem for the past few years: weak at the DT spot. I can't recall any good defenses that are subpar at DT.

Hamilton doesn't play the same spot as Moore and he had a significant injury his senior year of high school. Hamilton got a lot of good reviews during the bowl practice and has been getting good reviews during spring ball. He's in his 3rd year so you'd expect for the injuries and necessary physical maturation to be out of the way. Will he be a stud? Probably not, but if he can be reliable that will be a step in the right direction.

Of course Moore is in a similar boat, as this is his 3rd year and nose tackle, of all positions, takes years to develop your body. Moore is getting judged harshly because of his play, 2 years ago, as a true freshman. And Huertelou just got here, so he might take Moore's job if he hasn't developed (or just isn't good enough).

 

[IHATETHISPLACE]

Manny Navarro ‏@Manny_Navarro 1h
#Canes 1st team defense today: DL-Kamalu, Hamilton, Moore, Muhammad. LB-Perryman, Kirby, Figueroa. CB-Howard, Crawford. S-Bush, Carter

4-3?

I dont know Miami's D that well but I assume it could be a bit of both with Players like McCord and Muhammad playing DE/OLB

 

[Canesfan1899]

We have edge rushers that could be a terror in a 4-3 (AQM and McCord), I'm not sold on them as OLB's.

 

[niner]

Student gets C's and D's taking AP classes at his high school. The next year, his advisor suggests he takes more basic level classes. He improves to B's and a couple A's. What is the conclusion?

You can do better than that.

Yeah probably. Either way, I think it is analogous enough.

The problem with your analogy and why it cannot be taking serious is you are using "extreme" differences. Anyone who took AP Algebra vs "basic" algebra knows there is a huge difference. If you would have said AP Algebra vs Honors Algebra, then you might have something. Seeing as our SOS in 2012 was 42nd vs 2013 SOS which was 44th. Yes, there is a difference, it's right there is black and white. The difference is negligible.

You don't think replacing Two BCS teams with fcs team aren't extreme?

From Bethune-Cookman in 2012 to Savannah State in 2013

Are those the ones you were referring to, or nah?

 

[IHATETHISPLACE]

We have edge rushers that could be a terror in a 4-3 (AQM and McCord), I'm not sold on them as OLB's.

The problem is they are too small for 4-3 or 3-4 OLB. But I think people make too much of 4-3 or 3-4 how often are you guy in you base D?

 

[RiDLer80]

We have edge rushers that could be a terror in a 4-3 (AQM and McCord), I'm not sold on them as OLB's.

The problem is they are too small for 4-3 or 3-4 OLB. But I think people make too much of 4-3 or 3-4 how often are you guy in you base D?

With our stupid DC? First and second down no matter what. Even if the opposing team is in a 3 or 4 wide set.

 

[IHATETHISPLACE]

We have edge rushers that could be a terror in a 4-3 (AQM and McCord), I'm not sold on them as OLB's.

The problem is they are too small for 4-3 or 3-4 OLB. But I think people make too much of 4-3 or 3-4 how often are you guy in you base D?

With our stupid DC? First and second down no matter what. Even if the opposing team is in a 3 or 4 wide set.

I did see some of the UNC game and was wondering what the **** was going on

 

[CaneAlmighty]

Yeah exactly. Fiesta Bowl participant and MNC participant is just as easy as a 4-8,
offensively-inept UF and UL.

Soley looking at UFs record highlights the level of analysis used by some. Typical of how a chick not into sports would do when gauging a team.
Oh look they ended 4-8 which means they must have sucked. Wow impressive.

Dunno how that offensively inept team managed to win 11 games in the SEC the previous season. Luck I guess

As a Miami fan, you shouldn't celebrate the UF win any less, I know I wouldn't. But comparing last year's UF team to the one that won 11 games the year prior is just silly.

UF lost Elam, Floyd, Jenkins, Evans, Hunter, McCray, and Okine defensively. And yes the defense was every bit as good but the depth wasn't there.

Offensively UF lost Gilislee, Reed, Hammond, Hines, Nixon, and Wilson as starters on offense. They also lost Sturgis who was critical in converting FGS in a lot of close games, our kicker made 33% of his kicks this year LOL. So that's a combined 14 starters lost from the previous year.

And of the starters who returned, UF lost 3 o-lineman before fall camp even started. Rememeber, we had so few linemen on scholly we couldn't even have a spring game. And we looked like trash against Toledo the week prior to Miami. Anybody who beat us last year can in no way claim that to be a quality win, that's just reality. And those were the injuries just before Miami, they lost even more guys throughout the year. That team was every bit as bad as the record said they were and they were bad from game 1.

Cool Revisionist History Bro.

And save the sob story about who UF lost. Every team loses players. Offensively UF lost Gillislee and Reed. WOW cry me a river.
As for the Toledo game, the 11-2 UF team from 2012 struggled with Bowling Green to open the season. Actually it was more a struggle so not sure what your point is. UF was built to win ugly but they win. Was no different last year before they were ravaged by injuries.
Quality win by Golden and Team.

This may be the worst post of yours...which is sayng a lot.

UF didn't just lose Gilislee and Reed moron, I listed the other offensive players. They lost a combined 14 starters between offense, defense, and special teams, that's practically an entirely new team. For you to assert that they were the same team who went 11-2 is beyond dumb.

You're the one revising history. You claim they were good before injuries ravaged them, how the **** would you know? They hadn't played a game before a majority of the injuries piled up. Most of the injuries occured during spring, did you happen to see them play a game at that point to know they were good or something? What are you basing them being good on? What the team the year before did? The team that for all intents and purposes lost every meaningful starter to graduation or the draft? They had so many injuries they couldn't even play a spring game yet here you are claiming they were good before injuries LOL. Because CaneAlmighty saw UF scrimmage during the spring to determine they were good. You prove time and again you don't have many brain cells.

Like I said, Cool Revisionist History Bro.
You can hurl insults if you want I'll just post what you said

The below was posted by Killa this past August.

i just feel people are going a bit overboard on what uf lost upfront. wilson and nixon were both undrafted, neither were studs and were on again off again starters the whole year. nixon led uf in penalties last year and sacks given up, i'm not seeing how losing him is such a big deal. he was so good last year that a 260 lb. freshman in humphries started multiple games over him.

:ibisroflmao:

but it certainly seems it would be a surprise to some of you if uf wins, apparently they are a bum club.

:ibisroflmao:

secondly, i love the revisionist history on gillislee. before last year he had 920 yards in 3 years, or an average of 306 per season. now he's some irreplaceable stud. not going to downplay him as he was great for us last year, but he was slated to back up brown until brown was injured in preseason practice and then gillislee took the job and ran with it. either way last year we had 3 scholarship backs going into the season all of them unproven, this year we have 5, i'd say that's cause for optimism.

:ibisroflmao:

never said they were top 10 on this board or any other. i think driskel is trash and have said so consistently, why would i think they are top 10? the only unit i am very confident about is the defense, special teams, and the run game. 9-3 has been my prediction since early summer which would be a top 15 finish give or take.

:ibisroflmao:

 

[Ibis]

Nice CaneAlmighty! Killa is no different than that full of **** loser IHateThisPlace. Typical Chicken **** Gaytors.

**** their own AD tried rewriting the history of this series and not a single media outlet called them out on it due to the SEC slurpfest. Shoving a loss down those ******** throats is priceless.

******* OWN the Gaytors!

 

[TP801]

Soley looking at UFs record highlights the level of analysis used by some. Typical of how a chick not into sports would do when gauging a team.
Oh look they ended 4-8 which means they must have sucked. Wow impressive.

Dunno how that offensively inept team managed to win 11 games in the SEC the previous season. Luck I guess

As a Miami fan, you shouldn't celebrate the UF win any less, I know I wouldn't. But comparing last year's UF team to the one that won 11 games the year prior is just silly.

UF lost Elam, Floyd, Jenkins, Evans, Hunter, McCray, and Okine defensively. And yes the defense was every bit as good but the depth wasn't there.

Offensively UF lost Gilislee, Reed, Hammond, Hines, Nixon, and Wilson as starters on offense. They also lost Sturgis who was critical in converting FGS in a lot of close games, our kicker made 33% of his kicks this year LOL. So that's a combined 14 starters lost from the previous year.

And of the starters who returned, UF lost 3 o-lineman before fall camp even started. Rememeber, we had so few linemen on scholly we couldn't even have a spring game. And we looked like trash against Toledo the week prior to Miami. Anybody who beat us last year can in no way claim that to be a quality win, that's just reality. And those were the injuries just before Miami, they lost even more guys throughout the year. That team was every bit as bad as the record said they were and they were bad from game 1.

Cool Revisionist History Bro.

And save the sob story about who UF lost. Every team loses players. Offensively UF lost Gillislee and Reed. WOW cry me a river.
As for the Toledo game, the 11-2 UF team from 2012 struggled with Bowling Green to open the season. Actually it was more a struggle so not sure what your point is. UF was built to win ugly but they win. Was no different last year before they were ravaged by injuries.
Quality win by Golden and Team.

This may be the worst post of yours...which is sayng a lot.

UF didn't just lose Gilislee and Reed moron, I listed the other offensive players. They lost a combined 14 starters between offense, defense, and special teams, that's practically an entirely new team. For you to assert that they were the same team who went 11-2 is beyond dumb.

You're the one revising history. You claim they were good before injuries ravaged them, how the **** would you know? They hadn't played a game before a majority of the injuries piled up. Most of the injuries occured during spring, did you happen to see them play a game at that point to know they were good or something? What are you basing them being good on? What the team the year before did? The team that for all intents and purposes lost every meaningful starter to graduation or the draft? They had so many injuries they couldn't even play a spring game yet here you are claiming they were good before injuries LOL. Because CaneAlmighty saw UF scrimmage during the spring to determine they were good. You prove time and again you don't have many brain cells.

Like I said, Cool Revisionist History Bro.
You can hurl insults if you want I'll just post what you said

The below was posted by Killa this past August.

i just feel people are going a bit overboard on what uf lost upfront. wilson and nixon were both undrafted, neither were studs and were on again off again starters the whole year. nixon led uf in penalties last year and sacks given up, i'm not seeing how losing him is such a big deal. he was so good last year that a 260 lb. freshman in humphries started multiple games over him.

:ibisroflmao:

but it certainly seems it would be a surprise to some of you if uf wins, apparently they are a bum club.

:ibisroflmao:

secondly, i love the revisionist history on gillislee. before last year he had 920 yards in 3 years, or an average of 306 per season. now he's some irreplaceable stud. not going to downplay him as he was great for us last year, but he was slated to back up brown until brown was injured in preseason practice and then gillislee took the job and ran with it. either way last year we had 3 scholarship backs going into the season all of them unproven, this year we have 5, i'd say that's cause for optimism.

:ibisroflmao:

never said they were top 10 on this board or any other. i think driskel is trash and have said so consistently, why would i think they are top 10? the only unit i am very confident about is the defense, special teams, and the run game. 9-3 has been my prediction since early summer which would be a top 15 finish give or take.

:ibisroflmao:

Top 30 defense????? Break some ****** record for turnaround???? :ibisroflmao: :ibisroflmao: :ibisroflmao:

 

[wvcanefan]

Record defensive turnaround. We will have a top 30 defense

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

Those of yous doubting the defense will be pleasantly surprised. Top 30 defense easily. May break a defensive turnaround record.

.

 

[Gatorhater]

Man i know more football than half of you up here. No defense is afraid of dorsett if they were they would have not stack the box to stop the duke last year.

So losing your deep threat doesn't help your RB? Yeah it sounds like you know more foozball than miost on here. Dorsett had a nice TD grab against the Gators correct? Yeah he really sucked.

And if defenses are stacking the box to stop Duke it doesn't help Dorsett getting open deep correct?

You dont know ****. Dorsett is a #4 wr who the **** is afraid of a #4 wr. Coley, scott, waters are better than dorsett. Dude cant run routes and doesnt catch all that good either. I said he played like **** before he got hurt and all you can name is 1 nice td he had out of the 7 games he played. If williams is the starter this year i dont see him doing much because there will be a lot of dink n dunk and not many deep balls.

Dorsett is a deep threat. Coley tired to make him something different and it didn't work well. But he scared the pants off ND and took the top off the vaulted gator secondary. He is very good at what he is good at. Problem last years was that his big arm throw qb went in the tank when our throw it deep OC went to FL. Next year depends on our QB. If whoever it is goes long to Dorsett and scores a couple long bombs, then defenses will be dropping off him unless they have a 4.3 db that can keep up with him -- oops., then who cover Coley. I expect Dorsett to get several big chances next year if OC's play calling gets better. Hard to face Stacy and a 4.3 guy with a Duke and Joe in backfield-- especially if we start using the TE the way they should be used.

 

[drifters1234]

Manny Navarro ‏@Manny_Navarro 1h
#Canes 1st team defense today: DL-Kamalu, Hamilton, Moore, Muhammad. LB-Perryman, Kirby, Figueroa. CB-Howard, Crawford. S-Bush, Carter

That's encouraging - there's injuries keeping a few guys out, but the only person in that list that most folks aren't counting on is Moore

I don't see much difference in terms of production between Hamilton/Moore. What have people seen from Hamilton to count on him? And that highlights are biggest problem for the past few years: weak at the DT spot. I can't recall any good defenses that are subpar at DT.

Hamilton doesn't play the same spot as Moore and he had a significant injury his senior year of high school. Hamilton got a lot of good reviews during the bowl practice and has been getting good reviews during spring ball. He's in his 3rd year so you'd expect for the injuries and necessary physical maturation to be out of the way. Will he be a stud? Probably not, but if he can be reliable that will be a step in the right direction.

Of course Moore is in a similar boat, as this is his 3rd year and nose tackle, of all positions, takes years to develop your body. Moore is getting judged harshly because of his play, 2 years ago, as a true freshman. And Huertelou just got here, so he might take Moore's job if he hasn't developed (or just isn't good enough).

This consists of little more than hope that our DT production will improve. I don't recall Hamiliton's reviews during the bowl practices and the spring ball being particularly noteworthy.

I hope they will improve dramatically also, just as I've hoped their predecessors would. But, unfortunately, that hope has not materialized beyond mediocre -- at best -- DT production.

 

[killa1storm]

Soley looking at UFs record highlights the level of analysis used by some. Typical of how a chick not into sports would do when gauging a team.
Oh look they ended 4-8 which means they must have sucked. Wow impressive.

Dunno how that offensively inept team managed to win 11 games in the SEC the previous season. Luck I guess

As a Miami fan, you shouldn't celebrate the UF win any less, I know I wouldn't. But comparing last year's UF team to the one that won 11 games the year prior is just silly.

UF lost Elam, Floyd, Jenkins, Evans, Hunter, McCray, and Okine defensively. And yes the defense was every bit as good but the depth wasn't there.

Offensively UF lost Gilislee, Reed, Hammond, Hines, Nixon, and Wilson as starters on offense. They also lost Sturgis who was critical in converting FGS in a lot of close games, our kicker made 33% of his kicks this year LOL. So that's a combined 14 starters lost from the previous year.

And of the starters who returned, UF lost 3 o-lineman before fall camp even started. Rememeber, we had so few linemen on scholly we couldn't even have a spring game. And we looked like trash against Toledo the week prior to Miami. Anybody who beat us last year can in no way claim that to be a quality win, that's just reality. And those were the injuries just before Miami, they lost even more guys throughout the year. That team was every bit as bad as the record said they were and they were bad from game 1.

Cool Revisionist History Bro.

And save the sob story about who UF lost. Every team loses players. Offensively UF lost Gillislee and Reed. WOW cry me a river.
As for the Toledo game, the 11-2 UF team from 2012 struggled with Bowling Green to open the season. Actually it was more a struggle so not sure what your point is. UF was built to win ugly but they win. Was no different last year before they were ravaged by injuries.
Quality win by Golden and Team.

This may be the worst post of yours...which is sayng a lot.

UF didn't just lose Gilislee and Reed moron, I listed the other offensive players. They lost a combined 14 starters between offense, defense, and special teams, that's practically an entirely new team. For you to assert that they were the same team who went 11-2 is beyond dumb.

You're the one revising history. You claim they were good before injuries ravaged them, how the **** would you know? They hadn't played a game before a majority of the injuries piled up. Most of the injuries occured during spring, did you happen to see them play a game at that point to know they were good or something? What are you basing them being good on? What the team the year before did? The team that for all intents and purposes lost every meaningful starter to graduation or the draft? They had so many injuries they couldn't even play a spring game yet here you are claiming they were good before injuries LOL. Because CaneAlmighty saw UF scrimmage during the spring to determine they were good. You prove time and again you don't have many brain cells.

Like I said, Cool Revisionist History Bro.
You can hurl insults if you want I'll just post what you said

The below was posted by Killa this past August.

i just feel people are going a bit overboard on what uf lost upfront. wilson and nixon were both undrafted, neither were studs and were on again off again starters the whole year. nixon led uf in penalties last year and sacks given up, i'm not seeing how losing him is such a big deal. he was so good last year that a 260 lb. freshman in humphries started multiple games over him.

:ibisroflmao:

but it certainly seems it would be a surprise to some of you if uf wins, apparently they are a bum club.

:ibisroflmao:

secondly, i love the revisionist history on gillislee. before last year he had 920 yards in 3 years, or an average of 306 per season. now he's some irreplaceable stud. not going to downplay him as he was great for us last year, but he was slated to back up brown until brown was injured in preseason practice and then gillislee took the job and ran with it. either way last year we had 3 scholarship backs going into the season all of them unproven, this year we have 5, i'd say that's cause for optimism.

:ibisroflmao:

never said they were top 10 on this board or any other. i think driskel is trash and have said so consistently, why would i think they are top 10? the only unit i am very confident about is the defense, special teams, and the run game. 9-3 has been my prediction since early summer which would be a top 15 finish give or take.

:ibisroflmao:

This disproves what I was saying how? I love how you left out the full post on the second quote, why not put the full one? Which was I expect Miami to win but the way some of y'all were talking it would be a complete surprise if UF won, which I didn't understand. But conveniently you left that off which you have a history of doing.

As to the starters we lost, just because I didn't think they were studs doesn't mean they weren't lost starters. They played their role well which in itself is valuable. The whole point was that some people were acting like they were irreplaceable. They weren't, it's just that the guys replacing them all got injured in spring/fall camp and never stepped foot on the field. That's the point you're too dumb to notice apparently. The guys who were replacing them didn't even suit up because they all got injured. I even said in that very thread HE WAS GREAT FOR US in referring to Gilislee, so what's confusing for you? I thought he played well but he was in no way some irreplaceable god-like talent. Again...you don't have much brains clearly if you can't make that distinction.

And I said 9-3 or 8-4 in a previous post, so you quote me saying 9-3 from the summer as proof of what? Thanks for confirming that I'm consistent I guess? There were other posts where I said 7-5 was a real possibiliity also, feel free to bring those up as well.

 

[killa1storm]

So CaneAlmighty's position is that an opinion of a team BEFORE the season determines whether beating said team is a quality win once the season begins/ends.

Cool. So if Vegas believes a team will be 10-2 and they end up 3-9, according to CaneAlmighty any team who beats them still got a quality win because Vegas predicted they would win 10 games preseason. Can't argue with that logic folks, Almighty is clearly a brilliant man.

 

[DaU83]

What is the Golden slurper's rebuttal for the refusal to cover shallow crossing routes for the last several weeks of the season?

What part of the scheme is designed to allow shallow crossing routes to go uncovered?

This is the crux of the matter. It's not the scheme--it's the execution of the scheme. But at some point, they kind of become the same. Golden/Dono haven't designed the only defense in the history of football that can't work. But, if you're three years in and guys aren't executing, what's going to change? These guys who were playing last year weren't that young. If you have a fundamental execution problem, is plugging in more talented freshmen likely to fix that or make it worse?

I don't see a ton of improvement until they make a fundamental change grounded in accepting that what they are currently doing is NOT going to work. Maybe they have accepted that and will change and we just don't know it yet--hopefully. We must also note for the optimists that a little bit of improvement based on experience will not cut it. We're talking massive improvement if we want to compete at a high level especially considering that our offense very well could be worse.

The guys playing last year weren't that young, but they also weren't that good. I too believe it's a matter of execution, and that's something that will get fixed with time and experience, couple that with more talented guys, and I think we'll be just fine. I don't foresee any wholesale changes in our defensive philosophy, but I do think the combination of experience and talent is what we need to be successful. Golden had, has, the benefit of knowing he's not going to get booted from here quickly. That gives him the luxury of doing what he needs to do, and implementing what he needs to implement without the "man if i don't do this by season 3 i'm getting fired" threat. We may not agree with that, and we may not like it, but he's building for long term, and I'm ok with that.