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Defense Depth Chart Predictions on 9/1

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rokulika said:
4-3:

DE Thomas - AQM - Harris - Jackson
DT Pierre - Moore - Moten - Jenkins
DT Wyche - Heurtelou - King - Brown
DE Chick - Kamalu - Hamilton

LB Armbrister - McCord - McCray
LB Perryman - Owens - Young
LB Kirby - Grace - Smith
Click to expand...

Armbrister should not be starting when you have McCord and AQM on the bench. Stupid.
 
DE Chickillo - Kamalu - Moten
NT Wyche - Heurtelou - Moore - Jenkins
DT Pierre - Hamilton - King - Brown
DE Muhammad - Thomas - Harris

WLB Kirby - Grace - Smith
MLB Perryman - Owens - Young
SLB McCord - Jackson - Armbrister - McCray

CB Howard - Gunter - Dortch - Mayes
CB Burns OR Elder - Crawford
SS Carter - Gayot
FS Bush OR Crawford - Hester
 
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Honestly though, I really think Kirby gets beat out this year. He only had 10 Total tackles last year and played in 13 games. Then he had 16 in 7 games in 2012. He hasn't exactly been good.
Thats why I think we need to get AQM, Thomas, Chick, McCord, Perryman, and 3 safeties on the field together as much as possible.
 
calinative umstudent said:
Honestly though, I really think Kirby gets beat out this year. He only had 10 Total tackles last year and played in 13 games. Then he had 16 in 7 games in 2012. He hasn't exactly been good.
Thats why I think we need to get AQM, Thomas, Chick, McCord, Perryman, and 3 safeties on the field together as much as possible.
Click to expand...

Doesn't mean ****. Kirby has shown flashes too. If he lives up to hype. He's fine.
 
My head is going to explode if i see another person say this roster is built for a 4-3. This **** aint madden people, you cant just assume that because somebody plays DT, that they can play DT in any front. McCord, Thomas, and AQM have shown very little in stopping the run which they would need to do. If you put Chick in at DE you lose the ability to rush the passer and hes to light to put inside consistently. Pierre Could play DT in a 4-3 but Wyche and Heurtelou dont appear to be the type of players who can play in that kind of a 4-3 either. Linebackers are a bit more flexible so im sure you can make that work.

You guys may not like the defense, but this roster is about as far away from a traditional 4-3 as you can get.
 
As for this. I'll take crack at it.

4-3

Redshirts on Defense: Demetrius Jackson, Mike Smith, Courtel Jenkins, Terry McCray, Ryan Mayes

Transfers on Defense: Corey King

DE Chickillo - Kamalu - Harris
DT Pierre - Moten - Moore
DT Wyche - Heurtolou - Hamilton
DE McCord or Muhammad or Thomas

OLB Grace - Armbrister
MLB Perryman - Young
OLB Kirby - Owens

CB Howard - Elder - Dortch
CB Gunter or Burns - Crawford

S Bush - Jenkins - Hester
S Carter or Dallas - Gayot


Watch out for Kamalu, could overtake Chick if he's sleeping.

If the new DTs in Wyche, Heurt and Moten play solid, I expect our D to be very good.

I think Moten and Heurtolou pass up Moore and Hamilton. Moten going to be a big key to our pass rush this year.

I know people probably wondering why I have an or between McCord, Muhammad, and Thomas.
Even if McCord or any of the others play 4-3 linebacker it will be situationally aka for pass rush.

Could see us doing a d-line with 2 of the 3 of Chad, Tyriq or AQM on the ends and kick in Chick and Kamalu or even Moten as pass rushers at DT in a 4-3 set with most likely grace coming off for one of McCord, Muhammad or Thomas to fill in as a rusher at linebacker. Or watch out for Owens to sub in too as a pass rushing linebacker in 4-3 as well.

Also I know I have an or between Gunter and Burns. Think they will split a lot of time early, if a Burns can make the jump, becomes the starter next to Howard.

Also watch for Elder as the season progresses. I expect for all 6 I listed to get a good amount of time.

I also have an or between Carter and Dallas, even though I think Carter will get more time and starts at safety than Dallas.

BUT I see Dallas being a key pice playing a honey badger role as a nickel/safety in our defense. Dallas brings versatility could see him playing most snaps on our defense this year next to Denzel, Dallas will be used in many ways.

I know I have Jenkins behind Deon, but he will still see a lot of time regardless, we rotate at safety a lot. I just don't see Jenkins unseating Carter at this moment or Deon or Dallas. His injury actually hurt him a bit, but brought the emergence of Carter and Dallas into the fold.

Hester and Gayot could make an impact on special teams and on field later on. Would especially watch for Hester.

Grace will be used a lot in pass situations as well. Will especially see him in the nickel as well as base 4-3 formations. He will take a back seat on 3-4 though, doesn't have the size yet for the 3-4.

Would also definitely watch out for Owens. If someone underperforming, I expect Owens to be first in to replace them. I think Owens has huge upside.

3-4

DE Chickillo - Moten - Hamilton
NT Wyche - Heurtolou - Moore
DE Kamalu or Thomas - Pierre

OLB Muhammad or Thomas - Harris
ILB Kirby - Grace
ILB Perryman - Young
OLB McCord - Owens - Armbrister

Have an or between Muhammad and Thomas. Either or could come in as a pass rusher in 3-4 as well as McCord, even though I believe McCord could play LB a lil better than Thomas or Muhammad so I expect to see him more than them in 3-4 formations.

Owens will definitely be a factor in the 3-4 as well, he's a heat seeking missile on the blitz.

Harris could surprise as well if he is ready. Has a great first step.

I think Demetrius would have made a huge impact but he really needs to bulk so I expect the redshirt for him.

DB situation will be same on 3-4 obviously.
 
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ProjectMKUltra5 said:
My head is going to explode if i see another person say this roster is built for a 4-3. This **** aint madden people, you cant just assume that because somebody plays DT, that they can play DT in any front. McCord, Thomas, and AQM have shown very little in stopping the run which they would need to do. If you put Chick in at DE you lose the ability to rush the passer and hes to light to put inside consistently. Pierre Could play DT in a 4-3 but Wyche and Heurtelou dont appear to be the type of players who can play in that kind of a 4-3 either. Linebackers are a bit more flexible so im sure you can make that work.

You guys may not like the defense, but this roster is about as far away from a traditional 4-3 as you can get.
Click to expand...

Exactly this isn't madden, so why are we running a 34 when our players don't fit the scheme, and one of the most important parts of it( the NT) we've never had! Chad Thomas, AQM, McCord are all 43 DE's. They aren't 34 OLB's (only McCord can be). Chick can play DE in a 43 or 34, as can Kamalu, but they are just more of run stoppers. You say AQM isn't ready to play run Defense, (which is bull btw) but do you think he is more ready to play pass D? because that's what he would have to do in the 34. It's not like Donofrio is coming up with anything creative and actually blitzing. He gives the offense yards, because he believes in the bend, don't break mentality (stupid).
 
Geo305 said:
As for this. I'll take crack at it.

4-3

Redshirts on Defense: Demetrius Jackson, Mike Smith, Courtel Jenkins, Terry McCray, Ryan Mayes

Transfers on Defense: Corey King

DE Chickillo - Kamalu - Harris
DT Pierre - Moten - Moore
DT Wyche - Heurtolou - Hamilton
DE McCord or Muhammad or Thomas

OLB Grace - Armbrister
MLB Perryman - Young
OLB Kirby - Owens

CB Howard - Elder - Dortch
CB Gunter or Burns - Crawford

S Bush - Jenkins - Hester
S Carter or Dallas - Gayot


Watch out for Kamalu, could overtake Chick if he's sleeping.

If the new DTs in Wyche, Heurt and Moten play solid, I expect our D to be very good.

I think Moten and Heurtolou pass up Moore and Hamilton. Moten going to be a big key to our pass rush this year.

I know people probably wondering why I have an or between McCord, Muhammad, and Thomas.
Even if McCord or any of the others play 4-3 linebacker it will be situationally aka for pass rush.

Could see us doing a d-line with 2 of the 3 of Chad, Tyriq or AQM on the ends and kick in Chick and Kamalu or even Moten as pass rushers at DT in a 4-3 set with most likely grace coming off for one of McCord, Muhammad or Thomas to fill in as a rusher at linebacker. Or watch out for Owens to sub in too as a pass rushing linebacker in 4-3 as well.

Also I know I have an or between Gunter and Burns. Think they will split a lot of time early, if a Burns can make the jump, becomes the starter next to Howard.

Also watch for Elder as the season progresses. I expect for all 6 I listed to get a good amount of time.

I also have an or between Carter and Dallas, even though I think Carter will get more time and starts at safety than Dallas.

BUT I see Dallas being a key pice playing a honey badger role as a nickel/safety in our defense. Dallas brings versatility could see him playing most snaps on our defense this year next to Denzel, Dallas will be used in many ways.

I know I have Jenkins behind Deon, but he will still see a lot of time regardless, we rotate at safety a lot. I just don't see Jenkins unseating Carter at this moment or Deon or Dallas. His injury actually hurt him a bit, but brought the emergence of Carter and Dallas into the fold.

Hester and Gayot could make an impact on special teams and on field later on. Would especially watch for Hester.

Grace will be used a lot in pass situations as well. Will especially see him in the nickel as well as base 4-3 formations. He will take a back seat on 3-4 though, doesn't have the size yet for the 3-4.

Would also definitely watch out for Owens. If someone underperforming, I expect Owens to be first in to replace them. I think Owens has huge upside.

3-4

DE Chickillo - Moten
NT Wyche - Heurtolou - Moore
DE Kamalu - Pierre

OLB Muhammad or Thomas - Harris
ILB Kirby - Grace
ILB Perryman - Young
OLB McCord - Owens - Armbrister

Have an or between Muhammad and Thomas. Either or could come in as a pass rusher in 3-4 as well as McCord, even though I believe McCord could play LB a lil better than Thomas or Muhammad so I expect to see him more than them in 3-4 formations.

Owens will definitely be a factor in the 3-4 as well, he's a heat seeking missile on the blitz.

Harris could surprise as well if he is ready. Has a great first step.

I think Demetrius would have made a huge impact but he really needs to bulk so I expect the redshirt for him.

DB situation will be same on 3-4 obviously.
Click to expand...
Chad is a DE in either scheme. His body can support another 20lb (about 270 total) if he needs to. But he's not an OLB. The 3-4 is stupid for us, and it always will be.
 
calinative umstudent said:
ProjectMKUltra5 said:
My head is going to explode if i see another person say this roster is built for a 4-3. This **** aint madden people, you cant just assume that because somebody plays DT, that they can play DT in any front. McCord, Thomas, and AQM have shown very little in stopping the run which they would need to do. If you put Chick in at DE you lose the ability to rush the passer and hes to light to put inside consistently. Pierre Could play DT in a 4-3 but Wyche and Heurtelou dont appear to be the type of players who can play in that kind of a 4-3 either. Linebackers are a bit more flexible so im sure you can make that work.

You guys may not like the defense, but this roster is about as far away from a traditional 4-3 as you can get.
Click to expand...

Exactly this isn't madden, so why are we running a 34 when our players don't fit the scheme, and one of the most important parts of it( the NT) we've never had! Chad Thomas, AQM, McCord are all 43 DE's. They aren't 34 OLB's (only McCord can be). Chick can play DE in a 43 or 34, as can Kamalu, but they are just more of run stoppers. You say AQM isn't ready to play run Defense, (which is bull btw) but do you think he is more ready to play pass D? because that's what he would have to do in the 34. It's not like Donofrio is coming up with anything creative and actually blitzing. He gives the offense yards, because he believes in the bend, don't break mentality (stupid).
Click to expand...

Only thin I disagree here is. AQM and Chad can be 3-4 linebackers, just minus the cover duties if needed pure pass rush. Do think McCord suits that better if theirs possibly cover duties.

I didn't list Chad in my 3-4 ends but in previous charts I put out. I did mention he can play 3-4 end as well. I'll edit my chart I just put out. Putting him as an or with Kamalu too.
 
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Geo305 said:
calinative umstudent said:
ProjectMKUltra5 said:
My head is going to explode if i see another person say this roster is built for a 4-3. This **** aint madden people, you cant just assume that because somebody plays DT, that they can play DT in any front. McCord, Thomas, and AQM have shown very little in stopping the run which they would need to do. If you put Chick in at DE you lose the ability to rush the passer and hes to light to put inside consistently. Pierre Could play DT in a 4-3 but Wyche and Heurtelou dont appear to be the type of players who can play in that kind of a 4-3 either. Linebackers are a bit more flexible so im sure you can make that work.

You guys may not like the defense, but this roster is about as far away from a traditional 4-3 as you can get.
Click to expand...

Exactly this isn't madden, so why are we running a 34 when our players don't fit the scheme, and one of the most important parts of it( the NT) we've never had! Chad Thomas, AQM, McCord are all 43 DE's. They aren't 34 OLB's (only McCord can be). Chick can play DE in a 43 or 34, as can Kamalu, but they are just more of run stoppers. You say AQM isn't ready to play run Defense, (which is bull btw) but do you think he is more ready to play pass D? because that's what he would have to do in the 34. It's not like Donofrio is coming up with anything creative and actually blitzing. He gives the offense yards, because he believes in the bend, don't break mentality (stupid).
Click to expand...

Only thin I disagree here is. AQM and Chad can be 3-4 linebackers, just minus the cover duties if needed pure pass rush. Do think McCord suits that better if theirs possibly cover duties.

I didn't list Chad in my 3-4 ends but in previous charts I put out. I did mention he can play 3-4 end as well. I'll edit my chart I just put out. Putting him as an or with Kamalu too.
Click to expand...
You can't just subtract the pass coverage aspect out of it. While 34 OLB's are typically primarily pass rushers, they still have to cover sometimes. Sound's to me you basically want a 5-2:
SDE (TE side): AQM, McCord, and Thomas, Jackson; Outside shade of last man on line of scrimmage (8 shade)
SDT: Chick, Kamalu; Over the Tackle (5 shade)
NT: Wyche, Heurtelou; Over the center (0 shade)
WDT: Pierre, Moten; Between Guard and Tackle (3 or 4 Shade)
WDE: AQM, McCord, and Thomas, Harris; Outside shade of last man on line of scrimmage (6 shade)
2LBs: Perryman starts. The rest fight for 2nd spot.
I think the 52 does fit with the players we have, and on passing downs all that would need to change is The NT and WDT come out for a Cb and Pass Rusher. The Lb opposite Perryman can also be switched out for a Safety or another CB (dime)
 
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ProjectMKUltra5 said:
My head is going to explode if i see another person say this roster is built for a 4-3. This **** aint madden people, you cant just assume that because somebody plays DT, that they can play DT in any front. McCord, Thomas, and AQM have shown very little in stopping the run which they would need to do. If you put Chick in at DE you lose the ability to rush the passer and hes to light to put inside consistently. Pierre Could play DT in a 4-3 but Wyche and Heurtelou dont appear to be the type of players who can play in that kind of a 4-3 either. Linebackers are a bit more flexible so im sure you can make that work.

You guys may not like the defense, but this roster is about as far away from a traditional 4-3 as you can get.
Click to expand...

Yeah the problem now is Golden is actively seeking out the body types for the 3-4 so it is going nowhere. Moten is a 3-4 DE and Jenkins is a 3-4 NT after some development and another 15 pounds. Neither of these guys are 4-3 3 tech types. They brought in some hybrid pass rushers who will be 3-4 OLBS....DJ and Owens scream 3-4 OLB once they fill out and same is true for Mike Smith once he hits 240. Thomas was probably initially projected as an OLB but I fear he may grow into a 3-4 DE. Young is already thick and is more of the 2 down thumper type so yeah he screams 3-4 SILB. He will likely be in the mid 240s next year.

It is quite hard to just go back to the 4-3 after you have started really getting 3-4 specific body types in the system.

I agree with Wildcat that it would be dumb to have Thomas at 3-4 end since he is a pass rusher but the issue is his frame is just starting to add more naturally to fill him out. Reports are that he is already 260. That's just about the limit for a 3-4 OLB and with his frame he will almost certainly add another 15 or 20 over 3 years time just in filling out in college.....well if you do the math that puts him right in Chick territory weight wise.


The 3-4 is here to stay folks
 
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calinative umstudent said:
ProjectMKUltra5 said:
My head is going to explode if i see another person say this roster is built for a 4-3. This **** aint madden people, you cant just assume that because somebody plays DT, that they can play DT in any front. McCord, Thomas, and AQM have shown very little in stopping the run which they would need to do. If you put Chick in at DE you lose the ability to rush the passer and hes to light to put inside consistently. Pierre Could play DT in a 4-3 but Wyche and Heurtelou dont appear to be the type of players who can play in that kind of a 4-3 either. Linebackers are a bit more flexible so im sure you can make that work.

You guys may not like the defense, but this roster is about as far away from a traditional 4-3 as you can get.
Click to expand...

Exactly this isn't madden, so why are we running a 34 when our players don't fit the scheme, and one of the most important parts of it( the NT) we've never had! Chad Thomas, AQM, McCord are all 43 DE's. They aren't 34 OLB's (only McCord can be). Chick can play DE in a 43 or 34, as can Kamalu, but they are just more of run stoppers. You say AQM isn't ready to play run Defense, (which is bull btw) but do you think he is more ready to play pass D? because that's what he would have to do in the 34. It's not like Donofrio is coming up with anything creative and actually blitzing. He gives the offense yards, because he believes in the bend, don't break mentality (stupid).
Click to expand...


Your taking 3-4 and 4-3 at face value. Its not as simple as you run a 3-4 so the LBs have to drop into coverage. The 4-3 under is a defense that lines up like a 4-3 but uses 3-4 principles. In this scheme you need a nose (Wyche), a 3tech DT who is quick and can beat one on one blocks (Pierre), a strong side end to hold the point of attack (Chick), and a pass rusher at weak DE. I mean there is a write up on our defense that explains all this? A quick google search on 4-3 under would explain all of this.
 
ProjectMKUltra5 said:
calinative umstudent said:
ProjectMKUltra5 said:
My head is going to explode if i see another person say this roster is built for a 4-3. This **** aint madden people, you cant just assume that because somebody plays DT, that they can play DT in any front. McCord, Thomas, and AQM have shown very little in stopping the run which they would need to do. If you put Chick in at DE you lose the ability to rush the passer and hes to light to put inside consistently. Pierre Could play DT in a 4-3 but Wyche and Heurtelou dont appear to be the type of players who can play in that kind of a 4-3 either. Linebackers are a bit more flexible so im sure you can make that work.

You guys may not like the defense, but this roster is about as far away from a traditional 4-3 as you can get.
Click to expand...

Exactly this isn't madden, so why are we running a 34 when our players don't fit the scheme, and one of the most important parts of it( the NT) we've never had! Chad Thomas, AQM, McCord are all 43 DE's. They aren't 34 OLB's (only McCord can be). Chick can play DE in a 43 or 34, as can Kamalu, but they are just more of run stoppers. You say AQM isn't ready to play run Defense, (which is bull btw) but do you think he is more ready to play pass D? because that's what he would have to do in the 34. It's not like Donofrio is coming up with anything creative and actually blitzing. He gives the offense yards, because he believes in the bend, don't break mentality (stupid).
Click to expand...


Your taking 3-4 and 4-3 at face value. Its not as simple as you run a 3-4 so the LBs have to drop into coverage. The 4-3 under is a defense that lines up like a 4-3 but uses 3-4 principles. In this scheme you need a nose (Wyche), a 3tech DT who is quick and can beat one on one blocks (Pierre), a strong side end to hold the point of attack (Chick), and a pass rusher at weak DE. I mean there is a write up on our defense that explains all this? A quick google search on 4-3 under would explain all of this.
Click to expand...

Its not about the principles, it's about where the person is lining up. I'd be happy with the 43 under, in fact im pretty sure that's the Jimmy Johnson defense if im correct. But running the 34, AQM and McCord would be playing OLB, maybe even Thomas (although he might be too big soon enough). Then Chick and Kamalu are 34 DE's. and Obviously Wyche is the NT. Thats the problem. I'd be happy with the 43 under. because Chick and Kamalu would be playing that SDE. and the Pass rushing DE would be AQM, Thomas, McCord. The NT is still Wyche, and the DT would be Pierre and Moten. That is exactly what I'd hope to happen. **** you put McCord at that SOLB and have him pass rush next to Chick and I think it's good. I don't think we fit with the 34. 43 under is stiff different than a 34.
 
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Maybe it's crazy talk but I can see Dallas Crawford playing a role for us like how Honey Badger did for LSU.

Very aggressive,in your face tackler, with ability in coverage, can blitz, rip the ball out and lots of tenacity. Idk if he could impact the return game like honey badger did but I could see him doing the same things Honey Badger did on Defense for LSU.

It fits Dallas playstyle. I think he could fill that role Playing nickel/safety as long as he lives up to what he was as a safety coming out. Dallas had ballhawk ability to the max, you don't pick off 9 and 10 passes in a season like a walk in the park. He was a **** of a dual threat QB in high school too, could see that translating on picks, having player QB himself. And it's been shown before, Dallas can crack skulls.

Could see him filling a role like that for us. Like how we plan on using Tim Irvin or Carlton Davis in the future if we land them.

Watch out for that this year. Even if we have Deon and Carter or Jenkins out there at safety don't be surprised to see Dallas step on to the field too at the same time in that Honey Badger role. It really suits him. Would add another dimension to our defense. I always wanted Dallas on defense. Think he could be phenomenal, he's a hard worker.

I remember how bad I wanted him on defense too for quite some time. Remember he was scout team defensive MVP as a freshman. I really do think we could have a pleasant surprise in store for us with Crawford on defense.
 
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We can all go back and forth between a 4-3 or 3-4 alignment, and while the Canes D will be play both fronts, in my opinion to get the most productivity out of our defensive players, I'd play a 5-2. The skills set of these young speak to it.

On running downs I'd have the following lineup:
SDE-Muhammad
SDT-Chick, Kamalu
NT-Whyche, Heurtolu
WDT-Pierre, Moten
WDE-McCord, Thomas
The ILB's would be DP and Kirby.

On passing downs, I'd take out Whyche, slide Pierre inside, take out McCord for Chad Thomas. I'd take out Kirby and replace him with our new aggressive Safety, Dallas Crawford.

I'd role with this front 7 all day long!
 
561Cane said:
We can all go back and forth between a 4-3 or 3-4 alignment, and while the Canes D will be play both fronts, in my opinion to get the most productivity out of our defensive players, I'd play a 5-2. The skills set of these young speak to it.

On running downs I'd have the following lineup:
SDE-Muhammad
SDT-Chick, Kamalu
NT-Whyche, Heurtolu
WDT-Pierre, Moten
WDE-McCord, Thomas
The ILB's would be DP and Kirby.

On passing downs, I'd take out Whyche, slide Pierre inside, take out McCord for Chad Thomas. I'd take out Kirby and replace him with our new aggressive Safety, Dallas Crawford.

I'd role with this front 7 all day long!
Click to expand...

That's what I said earlier, but you are crazy if you want to take our best pass rusher from last year out (McCord). Yeah You take Wyche out and sub in a S/CB for him. But you can also take Pierre out for Thomas, and sub Kirby for a S/CB. You don't take McCord out for Thomas, at least not yet.
 
Can McCord play LB in a 4-3? A lot of posters have him starting or backing up as a LB in a 4-3. I was under the impression he was a small DE in a 4-3, or LB in a 3-4, which is basically a rush LB. Am I wrong? I was once. Is this the second time?
 
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