Crown Swasey???

[Pennmed Canefan]

If you take the 2003 hurricanes, for instance, only a paucity of those guys ever MET moffit. This is what I'm talking about. Nothing "eroded" from moffit for them. They probably cant pick him out of a lineup. **** you could go to 2001 and a large fraction of those fuys had 0-1 years of moffit. So a couple of months of moffit somehow defined their career? Be serious.

All of this business about golden taking over swasey's program is just jargon to me. What does it mean? Nobody knows what it means in any specifics and I'd bet dollars to nickels that it is FAR overstated. I bet it has a lot more to do with stuff like goals and performance measures and accountability than golden telling swasey what exercises to use. But, nobody knows. Again golden has no background s/c. I again ask a common sense type question--if a guy sucks so bad at his job that you have to do it for him, even though youVe never done it, why not just hire a guy who might do it better? This notion that a guy wih every opportunity to rehire instead kept a guy and is telling him how to do a job he's never done is kind of crazy to me at least.

 

[pcitycane]

If you take the 2003 hurricanes, for instance, only a paucity of those guys ever MET moffit. This is what I'm talking about. Nothing "eroded" from moffit for them. They probably cant pick him out of a lineup. **** you could go to 2001 and a large fraction of those fuys had 0-1 years of moffit. So a couple of months of moffit somehow defined their career? Be serious.

All of this business about golden taking over swasey's program is just jargon to me. What does it mean? Nobody knows what it means in any specifics and I'd bet dollars to nickels that it is FAR overstated. I bet it has a lot more to do with stuff like goals and performance measures and accountability than golden telling swasey what exercises to use. But, nobody knows. Again golden has no background s/c. I again ask a common sense type question--if a guy sucks so bad at his job that you have to do it for him, even though youVe never done it, why not just hire a guy who might do it better? This notion that a guy wih every opportunity to rehire instead kept a guy and is telling him how to do a job he's never done is kind of crazy to me at least.

exactly

 

[AlexCane]

We can agree to disagree. It's hard to be lucky that many times over and at so many different places. At some point, it becomes less coincidence and more correlation. S&C programs are the guts of a program and are a huge driver for confidence. If you look at every single one of the programs he's touched, that's what they all have, and, quite frankly, if you don't think that he played a HUGE part in that then we're just on different wavelengths about the issue.

I would, in fact , say that Moffitt is underrated. He's that good.

Wush: Would you not agree that the following are more important than S&C?

1. Recruitment of talent;
2. Development of talent;
3. Coaching.

I don't want to ascribe percentages of how that correlates to success. That's guesswork. But wouldn't you agree that if you are hitting on all 3, you're going to be **** good, whether Moffitt is your S&C coordinator or Swasey?

Alex:

I would say that S&C is intimately related to numbers 2 and 3. In fact, I don't know how you can separate them because it's easier to coach, develop, and execute, with players who come from such a strong S&C program. I don't know how anyone can refute that. Golden, himself, has said it and his takeover of the program couldn't be any more of an indictment of Swasey's failures at his job.

And to answer your other question, I do NOT think LSU has nearly the same level of success if Swasey was their guy rather than Moffitt. Again, we'll agree to disagree there, but it's hard to deny the tremendous success he's had across multiple programs.

And to Pennmed, Moffitt created a culture that eroded over time and especially once Swasey took over. We all were witness to it. It also makes sense that that players that were part of the program, even as freshman and sophomores, benefitted from it even after he left because of the culture created. What was clear was how players regressed once they started doing things Swasey's way. Sure, you'll say that the quality of player deteriorated as well, but the fact that Golden has had to already reshape the program for his players is pretty telling.

I disagree most with that statement.

Look at talent:

2012: 2 picked in top 15 (Claiborne at 6); Reuben Randle goes in 2nd round.
2011: Patrick Peterson (top 5); 4 guys go in 3rd round.
2010: down year ... 2 go in 3rd round.
2009: top 3 pick
2008: top 5 pick; 3 in 3rd round
2007: 4 in 1st round (including Jamarcus Russell, lol)

And look how that coincides with their record:

2012: 13-1
2011: 11-2
2010: 9-4
2009: 8-5
2008: 12-2
2007: 11-2

Their 2 worst years as far as NFL draft, also happened to be 2 worst years record wise (one of which ended up season not ranked). Talent > _____

 

[pcitycane]

Anyone think we still have a shot at Reuben Randle?

 

[NJtoFLAcane]

We can agree to disagree. It's hard to be lucky that many times over and at so many different places. At some point, it becomes less coincidence and more correlation. S&C programs are the guts of a program and are a huge driver for confidence. If you look at every single one of the programs he's touched, that's what they all have, and, quite frankly, if you don't think that he played a HUGE part in that then we're just on different wavelengths about the issue.

I would, in fact , say that Moffitt is underrated. He's that good.

Wush: Would you not agree that the following are more important than S&C?

1. Recruitment of talent;
2. Development of talent;
3. Coaching.

I don't want to ascribe percentages of how that correlates to success. That's guesswork. But wouldn't you agree that if you are hitting on all 3, you're going to be **** good, whether Moffitt is your S&C coordinator or Swasey?

Alex:

I would say that S&C is intimately related to numbers 2 and 3. In fact, I don't know how you can separate them because it's easier to coach, develop, and execute, with players who come from such a strong S&C program. I don't know how anyone can refute that. Golden, himself, has said it and his takeover of the program couldn't be any more of an indictment of Swasey's failures at his job.

And to answer your other question, I do NOT think LSU has nearly the same level of success if Swasey was their guy rather than Moffitt. Again, we'll agree to disagree there, but it's hard to deny the tremendous success he's had across multiple programs.

And to Pennmed, Moffitt created a culture that eroded over time and especially once Swasey took over. We all were witness to it. It also makes sense that that players that were part of the program, even as freshman and sophomores, benefitted from it even after he left because of the culture created. What was clear was how players regressed once they started doing things Swasey's way. Sure, you'll say that the quality of player deteriorated as well, but the fact that Golden has had to already reshape the program for his players is pretty telling.

I disagree most with that statement.

Look at talent:

2012: 2 picked in top 15 (Claiborne at 6); Reuben Randle goes in 2nd round.
2011: Patrick Peterson (top 5); 4 guys go in 3rd round.
2010: down year ... 2 go in 3rd round.
2009: top 3 pick
2008: top 5 pick; 3 in 3rd round
2007: 4 in 1st round (including Jamarcus Russell, lol)

dont even waste your time........this has become a potato thread

 

[AlexCane]

I know. All Swasey threads result in this. Not sure why I get suckered in to each, but I do!

 

[caneigetawitness]

We can agree to disagree. It's hard to be lucky that many times over and at so many different places. At some point, it becomes less coincidence and more correlation. S&C programs are the guts of a program and are a huge driver for confidence. If you look at every single one of the programs he's touched, that's what they all have, and, quite frankly, if you don't think that he played a HUGE part in that then we're just on different wavelengths about the issue.

I would, in fact , say that Moffitt is underrated. He's that good.

Wush: Would you not agree that the following are more important than S&C?

1. Recruitment of talent;
2. Development of talent;
3. Coaching.

I don't want to ascribe percentages of how that correlates to success. That's guesswork. But wouldn't you agree that if you are hitting on all 3, you're going to be **** good, whether Moffitt is your S&C coordinator or Swasey?

you can still recruit and develop talent all day long.......but if they still get their asses kicked physically.......it means **** that you coach circles around the guy on the sidelines across from you

strength and physicality isnt gonna be developed by watching film or doing drills......or game planning

how about eating donuts and watching reality tv? love your posts on fitness and discipline...keep 'em coming Stay Puft

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

Because it's hard not to. They violate a lot of common sense to me. I mean, honestly, which of these scenarios makes more sense:

Golden: swasey, I expect 30 players including all OL/DL on this team to be able to bench 225 20 times. Do that.

Or

Golden: swasey, this is what chest exercises you should use. Now go collect your check.

I know. All Swasey threads result in this. Not sure why I get suckered in to each, but I do!

 

[NJtoFLAcane]

We can agree to disagree. It's hard to be lucky that many times over and at so many different places. At some point, it becomes less coincidence and more correlation. S&C programs are the guts of a program and are a huge driver for confidence. If you look at every single one of the programs he's touched, that's what they all have, and, quite frankly, if you don't think that he played a HUGE part in that then we're just on different wavelengths about the issue.

I would, in fact , say that Moffitt is underrated. He's that good.

Wush: Would you not agree that the following are more important than S&C?

1. Recruitment of talent;
2. Development of talent;
3. Coaching.

I don't want to ascribe percentages of how that correlates to success. That's guesswork. But wouldn't you agree that if you are hitting on all 3, you're going to be **** good, whether Moffitt is your S&C coordinator or Swasey?

you can still recruit and develop talent all day long.......but if they still get their asses kicked physically.......it means **** that you coach circles around the guy on the sidelines across from you

strength and physicality isnt gonna be developed by watching film or doing drills......or game planning

how about eating donuts and watching reality tv? love your posts on fitness and discipline...keep 'em coming Stay Puft

finland!!

 

[NJtoFLAcane]

Because it's hard not to. They violate a lot of common sense to me. I mean, honestly, which of these scenarios makes more sense:

Golden: swasey, I expect 30 players including all OL/DL on this team to be able to bench 225 20 times. Do that.

Or

Golden: swasey, this is what chest exercises you should use. Now go collect your check.

I know. All Swasey threads result in this. Not sure why I get suckered in to each, but I do!

it doesnt violate common sense.......at this point swasey is nothing more than a glorified babysitter and stat keeper in the weight room

al gave him the program to run........told him what he expects progression wise and told him how he expects the progress to be tracked

a monkey could do what hes doing......a big reason swasey kept his job is because of how he relates to and communicates with players.....it isnt because hes so highly regarded or is racking up accolades for his work

hes a ******* puppet at this point......and thats fine as long as the job is getting done........but what violates common sense is how anybody can crown him as though he is something other than a puppet

 

[Pennmed Canefan]

So a guy as ambitious, detail-oriented, and sharp as golden is paying a strength coach to do nothin more than observe rather than doing something like, oh say, hiring a guy who might be able to actually DO some s/c work rather than pass on amateur programming. That is f'n ridiculous. When he came the whole program needed rebuilding yet he kept a coach to "relate" to players he needs gone?!? Jesus Christ already.

Personally I am neither crowning him nor even saying he's good. I'm merely stating the obvious--that this observational role you guys are proposing is lunacy.

Because it's hard not to. They violate a lot of common sense to me. I mean, honestly, which of these scenarios makes more sense:

Golden:S swasey, I expect 30 players including all OL/DL on this team to be able to bench 225 20 times. Do that.

Or

Golden: swasey, this is what chest exercises you should use. Now go collect your check.

I know. All Swasey threads result in this. Not sure why I get suckered in to each, but I do!

it doesnt violate common sense.......at this point swasey is nothing more than a glorified babysitter and stat keeper in the weight room

al gave him the program to run........told him what he expects progression wise and told him how he expects the progress to be tracked

a monkey could do what hes doing......a big reason swasey kept his job is because of how he relates to and communicates with players.....it isnt because hes so highly regarded or is racking up accolades for his work

hes a ****ing puppet at this point......and thats fine as long as the job is getting done........but what violates common sense is how anybody can crown him as though he is something other than a puppet

 

[JHallCanes]

I know. All Swasey threads result in this. Not sure why I get suckered in to each, but I do!

So true.

 

[NorthFlaCane]

Okay, Swasey didn't suck at his job. Shannon and Coker sucked at theirs.

Everyone feel better?

 

[UMFarArcher]

Works for me.

 

[Duval904]

u killed it in here Axle

 

[wushah]

So a guy as ambitious, detail-oriented, and sharp as golden is paying a strength coach to do nothin more than observe rather than doing something like, oh say, hiring a guy who might be able to actually DO some s/c work rather than pass on amateur programming. That is f'n ridiculous. When he came the whole program needed rebuilding yet he kept a coach to "relate" to players he needs gone?!? Jesus Christ already.

Personally I am neither crowning him nor even saying he's good. I'm merely stating the obvious--that this observational role you guys are proposing is lunacy.

Because it's hard not to. They violate a lot of common sense to me. I mean, honestly, which of these scenarios makes more sense:

Golden:S swasey, I expect 30 players including all OL/DL on this team to be able to bench 225 20 times. Do that.

Or

Golden: swasey, this is what chest exercises you should use. Now go collect your check.

I know. All Swasey threads result in this. Not sure why I get suckered in to each, but I do!

it doesnt violate common sense.......at this point swasey is nothing more than a glorified babysitter and stat keeper in the weight room

al gave him the program to run........told him what he expects progression wise and told him how he expects the progress to be tracked

a monkey could do what hes doing......a big reason swasey kept his job is because of how he relates to and communicates with players.....it isnt because hes so highly regarded or is racking up accolades for his work

hes a ****ing puppet at this point......and thats fine as long as the job is getting done........but what violates common sense is how anybody can crown him as though he is something other than a puppet

LOL. That's a convenient take. I am not "crowning him or even saying he's good". Well, are you saying Swasey's not good then? How about mediocre? Certainly, he's been around long enough to have an opinion of some sort.

Or is that you think the role of the S&C coach is overstated and overrated in general, and these guys are just assigned to implement a coach's plan which counters your argument that Swasey is just a high-priced trainer and baby-sitter and certainly doesn't explain why many of the top programs in the country have reached out to Moffitt for his services?

And if Swasey didn't understand or could not formulate his own meaures as a S&C coach, what does that say? It's beyond amusing that people have basically turned Swasey into a eunuch who had no control over his own program. Yet, we've all learned over the years that players did not mess with Swasey bc he was so well-respected. If he was so well-respected, then why couldn't he develop his own parameters and S&C goals? And if he did, then why were the players so miserable both on the field and at the combine? Finally, if the players respected him so much, then why didn't they go the extra mile for him?

 

[AlexCane]

IMO, I think it's hard to judge Swasey because this ship has had no rudder for several years. Just think of the massive amount of turnover we've had of assistant coaches. Have we thought well of one of them? The answer is no, despite the fact that they've left and had success elsewhere (Mario C.) or been scooped up by Saban (Stout, Pannunzio).

It's no different than if Apple hired Joaquin Phoenix's character in "Gladiator." What happens to the perception of Apple's mid- to upper-level managers? I'm sure they'd look just as incompetent as their leader.

 

[NorthFlaCane]

IMO, I think it's hard to judge Swasey because this ship has had no rudder for several years. Just think of the massive amount of turnover we've had of assistant coaches. Have we thought well of one of them? The answer is no, despite the fact that they've left and had success elsewhere (Mario C.) or been scooped up by some of Saban (Stout, Pannunzio).

It's no different than if Apple hired Joaquin Phoenix's character in "Gladiator." What happens to the perception of Apple's mid- to upper-level managers? I'm sure they'd look just as incompetent as their leader.

I wish we knew if the changes Golden implemented on nutrition and accountabilit had been fought for by Swasey in the past. If not, then Swasey's value has a low ceiling. If he did but Shannon rebuffed him, then I don't know why he stayed.

At some point you have to take pride in what you do and invest yourself in your work, and I find it really hard to think that Swasey took pride in the feeble teams we rolled out there the last few years.

 

[AlexCane]

Who knows? But I can't imagine that if the head coach isn't stressing S&C to his kids that an S&C coach can have much of an impact.

It starts up top. Look at Butch's teams. Always in great shape. His defenses at NC were NFL ready. 2000 team and what he left for Coker in 2001 was stacked as well.

 

[k9cane]

All I know is that its been said that the S@C coach is the most important guy in the building outside the head coach because in the off-season he's the only one really allowed to have contact with the players.

So yeah, I think they are kinda important