Off-Topic Crime 2.0

Up until the 6th of Jan, Trump supporters had not resorted to widespread violence. They were the self-proclaimed "party of law and order." What happened was well out of character, wouldn't you agree? So, there was that.

Then, had 20,000 Natl Guard troops been mobilized on the chance the Trump mob would end up acting as it did, can you even begin to imagine what Trump and supporters would've had to say about "police state" oppression and denial of their Constitutional rights by the Govt. It's very possible that might well have resulted in an even worse confrontation, with more deaths and chaos.
First off... what "widespread violence"? You mean the 2020 summer of love? Cause that was widespread violence. If you are talking about a few hours on Jan 6, I'd have to check my dictionary again... but I didn't realize that "widespread violence" would mean, in ONE building on ONE day! LOL

I would agree that the Jan 6 capitol breachers were wrong and anyone that broke in or destroyed things (including windows) or maced or attacked cops should be charged and pay their consequences. However, I think that people that were non-violent (and especially didn't step foot inside the capitol) be released and should have never been held in solitary confinement... a true crime that hardly anyone talks about. Those "selfie" takers should have paid their fines in early 2021 and went back on their lives, instead of having them destroyed and been labeled as domestic terrorists


But for the 2nd part... if 20k National Guard troops have been deployed... you know what that means right? There would have been ZERO capitol breach and maybe just a few scuffles at most. You think a thousand or so UNARMED Trump supporters (embedded with 20+ FBI/ATF) were gonna take on 20,000 ARMED National Guard?!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! If you think there would have been anything more than that... well, I don't know what to tell you... lay off the crazy peeps on MSNBC and CNN.
 
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I'm not defending the FBI. As I said, they've gone on a tangent. The bigger problem is that the media who's supposed to keep them in check isn't doing that.
Oh I agree and I wasn't coming at you... as I'm sure you may have realized. I just find it crazy how people can't see what's staring them on the face with what the FBI has been doing and who they are targeting. I mean, one whistleblower left the FBI cause they were literally targeting parents from school board meetings that would get heated. Can you believe that is the world we are living in, when FBI is set out to investigate parents who are upset at their school boards?!?

But separating all of the FBI bias and misfeasance of all the other stories... my comments about the Whitmer FBI involvement is separate and are straight to the point. Without the FBI... those idiots wouldn't have attempted any kidnapping of Whitmer.
 
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Oh I agree and I wasn't coming at you... as I'm sure you may have realized. I just find it crazy how people can't see what's staring them on the face with what the FBI has been doing and who they are targeting. I mean, one whistleblower left the FBI cause they were literally targeting parents from school board meetings that would get heated. Can you believe that is the world we are living in, when FBI is set out to investigate parents who are upset at their school boards?!?

But separating all of the FBI bias and misfeasance of all the other stories... my comments about the Whitmer FBI involvement is separate and are straight to the point. Without the FBI... those idiots wouldn't have attempted any kidnapping of Whitmer.
That's very possible, but we'll never really know exactly how it went down. I just wish they'd do their core job.
 
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That's very possible, but we'll never really know exactly how it went down. I just wish they'd do their core job.
How do you know that they weren't/aren't doing their "core job," and haven't been doing that all along? Presumably, the Bureau's 13,000+ Special Agents can walk, fart and chew gum at the same time.

For all any of us know their activities vis-a-vis the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers and the like were too far down on their list of "mission priorities." Perhaps, if they were devoting more resources to fringe extremist groups, Jan 6th could've turned out different. As you say, we'll never know. And, of course hindsight, is always 20-20.
 
so UNARMED Trump supporters (embedded with 20+ FBI/ATF) were gonna take on 20,000 ARMED National Guard?!? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! If you think there would have been anything more than that... well, I don't know what to tell you... lay off the crazy peeps on MSNBC and CNN.
As to why 20,000 Nat'l Guard troops were not present on Jan 6th, who was President on that day? It was still Trump was it not?
 
That's very possible, but we'll never really know exactly how it went down. I just wish they'd do their core job.
If anyone is interested, here is the link I found that @NC_Canes_11 posted back in October by Esquire (which is left/liberal)...


It's really long but a few tidbits from the article...

As I did so, I found myself somewhat taken aback to be contemplating thoughts I hadn’t expected to entertain. For instance, it became increasingly apparent to me that, despite all the surveillance and recording over many months before these men were arrested, the connective tissue of the purported conspiracy seemed perplexingly elusive. By cherry-picking and stitching together disparate statements, incidents, and circumstances, you could certainly fashion an argument that such a conspiracy may have existed—just as the prosecution maintained—but it did seem surprising that the kinds of sustained conversation you might have assumed would be there, in which the principal participants sat around and discussed both the broad scope and the practical minutiae of what they intended to do, didn’t appear to exist.​
It was also perplexing to see how much of the connective tissue that did exist involved people who were acting on behalf of the FBI. Take, for instance, what seemed, at first glance, to be one of the more damning events in the alleged narrative of this conspiracy. It is one thing to be told that, on the night of September 12, 2020, Adam Fox and Barry Croft, who according to the prosecutors were the plot’s de facto ringleaders, conducted a nighttime reconnaissance of Whitmer’s Elk Rapids vacation home, driving around the area after first stopping to inspect the underside of the bridge on Highway 31, where they might plant explosives. But it is perhaps another to piece together that the truck in question, a Chevy Silverado, had five people in it. And that Fox and Croft were in the backseat, Croft in the middle, next to a man who turned out to be an FBI informant. And that the truck was being driven by its owner, Dan Chappel, who had been at the center of everything that had or hadn’t been happening for several months. And that he was also an FBI informant. And that next to him up front was another man, whom Chappel had introduced to the group as an explosives expert. And that this man was not an FBI informant. He was an FBI agent.
In the buildup to the trial, there were other developments that seemed more screenplay than reality. In July 2021, Richard Trask, the FBI agent whose account had formed the central narrative of the initial complaint, was arrested, having viciously assaulted his wife after they returned home from a swingers’ party, and subsequently fired. The following month, BuzzFeed’s Ken Bensinger and Jessica Garrison broke the news that a Twitter account describing itself as run by the CEO of a cyber-intelligence firm called Exeintel had, ahead of the Whitmer kidnapping arrests, tweeted coded celebratory tweets about this impending law-enforcement triumph. According to the story, one of the firm’s listed owners was another FBI agent, Jayson Chambers, a man so integral to the investigation that, according to one defense attorney, between March and October 2020 he had allegedly exchanged 3,236 messages with the embedded informant Dan Chappel. These potential FBI misdeeds would be adjudged inadmissible in court, but even if you weren’t minded to believe the most extreme conspiracy theories—that the whole kidnapping plot had been fabricated by people within the FBI, say, to draw attention and business to this private company—it all felt very untoward and disconcerting.​
Even so, I found it difficult to imagine that the defendants wouldn’t be found guilty. For one thing, even if the FBI’s immersive role might offend an everyday sense of fairness, I knew that, legally, the bar to using entrapment as a successful defense was generally a high one. Likewise, what was required to establish guilt on the main charge of conspiracy to kidnapping was slighter than you might assume. Whether the plan was confused or impractical, or in all likelihood would never have been carried out, was irrelevant. What was required was that two or more people conspired or agreed to commit the crime of kidnapping, that anyone involved joined knowingly and voluntarily, and that at least one member of the conspiracy committed a single overt act to advance or help the conspiracy. That’s it. The indictment detailed nineteen such acts, and the jury need only be convinced of one.​


And at the end... after Barry and Cox (who previously were found not guilty) were found guilty in the 2nd trial he wrote this...

The Department of Justice put out a press release in which Andrew Birge said, in words that seemed to balance triumph and relief, “Today’s verdict confirms this plot was very real and very dangerous.” The tone of much of the media coverage suggested that sanity and stability had belatedly prevailed.​
That’s not how I felt. I can’t tell you with any confidence that none of these men would ever have done anything terrible. I can’t tell you with any confidence that, allowed the chance, none of them ever would. But neither can I tell you that I’m comfortable with any sense that an authentic and terrible threat has been satisfactorily and appropriately dealt with, its damage finally contained. What I can tell you is that, as our world evolves in ways that unnerve us, we might thank ourselves to be as careful as we can, every one of us, not to act as though we know for sure what we may not know in the least. And I can tell you this: If everything you knew about these men is what you heard on October 8, 2020, you knew almost nothing at all.​
 
As to why 20,000 Nat'l Guard troops were not present on Jan 6th, who was President on that day? It was still Trump was it not?
We've already gone over this a hundred times (it seems)! Trump authorized the troops but they were denied in writing by the mayor and head of Capitol police (who's overseen by Pelosi)

Read here...


It’s backed up by writing; Mayor Bowser’s written refusal, the communications between the leader of the Capitol police and their chain of command to the DOD refusing our request to allow National Guardsmen and Women to stage on January 4 and January 5, before January 6. That’s in the timeline.
 
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How do you know that they weren't/aren't doing their "core job," and haven't been doing that all along? Presumably, the Bureau's 13,000+ Special Agents can walk, fart and chew gum at the same time.

For all any of us know their activities vis-a-vis the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers and the like were too far down on their list of "mission priorities." Perhaps, if they were devoting more resources to fringe extremist groups, Jan 6th could've turned out different. As you say, we'll never know. And, of course hindsight, is always 20-20.
If they have enough resources to investigate seemingly political issues, maybe they're over funded or need to shift priorities. It's not like their record on vetting mass killers who've been on their radar is stellar.

They need to avoid political issues. That gives ammo to their opponents and gives the impression of bias.
 
We've already gone over this a hundred times (it seems)! Trump authorized the troops but they were denied in writing by the mayor and head of Capitol police (who's overseen by Pelosi)

Read here...


It’s backed up by writing; Mayor Bowser’s written refusal, the communications between the leader of the Capitol police and their chain of command to the DOD refusing our request to allow National Guardsmen and Women to stage on January 4 and January 5, before January 6. That’s in the timeline.
Bongino has as much credibility with me as blowhard Keith Olbermann I expect has with you. IMO, he's the absolute WOAT. And, that's saying something given his competition.

Clearly, no one expected what occurred on Jan 6th. And, as said, hindsight is 20/20.

I have no idea as to the mechanism by which the Nat'l Guard or regular troops can be deployed. If Pelosi, the Capitol Police Chief, and Bowser could override or ignore an order (formal request?) in the District of Columbia from the POTUS, that needs changing. I believe, in the wake of 9/11, Bush ordered a bunch of actions affecting the District. Could be wrong.
 
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Thanks.

Rightly so, IMO. And that horrific fencing they threw up. Really made us look Third World.
Maybe having a small National Guard presence with more staged in case they were needed would've been prudent in both cases.
 
Thanks.

Rightly so, IMO. And that horrific fencing they threw up. Really made us look Third World.
Actually, 2 weeks earlier made the US look more Third World than anything else. When the inauguration happened, they were going to make sure none of that crap was happening again.
 
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Bongino has as much credibility with me as blowhard Keith Olbermann I expect has with you. IMO, he's the absolute WOAT. And, that's saying something given his competition.

Clearly, no one expected what occurred on Jan 6th. And, as said, hindsight is 20/20.

I have no idea as to the mechanism by which the Nat'l Guard or regular troops can be deployed. If Pelosi, the Capitol Police Chief, and Bowser could override or ignore an order (formal request?) in the District of Columbia from the POTUS, that needs changing. I believe, in the wake of 9/11, Bush ordered a bunch of actions affecting the District. Could be wrong.
Keith Olbermann is a douche of course... he has never had credibility. The most likeable he's ever been, is when he was on ESPN... and that's not saying much.

Bongino... liberals hate him I know that for sure. That's probably why I like him... similar to when I became a Hurricane fan in the 80s... cause everyone hated the U.

But the link I put in there wasn't Bongino's opinion... it was quotes and information gathered. If you can refute anything in that link, please do so. I will wait.
 
Actually, 2 weeks earlier made the US look more Third World than anything else. When the inauguration happened, they were going to make sure none of that crap was happening again.
Weird that they knew what was potentially coming and still let it happen, huh?
 
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