forums

Coaches vs Talent

Gatorhater said:
cp7705 said:
Gator, I don't think that's fair. If an Ed Reed type of player was in the secondary, I think Al would let him do what he was best at. But I don't see that type of range, speed and athleticism in Bush or Jenkins. I see the instincts in Howard though. Judging because of that play he jumped that screen in the UVA game. I am pretty sure if he did not make that INT/TD, he would have gotten yelled at for sure. But I think the cupboards were so bare when RS left, that we needed to get in players, but the best way to be successful was them to be controlled and play within a system. I think this year and further, we are just going to recruit talented players. Once they learn the fundamentals, they'll start to let the leash go and let the sheer instinct and athleticism make plays.
Click to expand...

You could be right, but Al is a stubborn man who is clearly convinced his way is the right way -- most HCs are. I am fairly sure I heard "freelancing" as a criticism of Howard early on. Maybe if Ed's first couple plays were pick-six types, Al might have put up with him. But Al would have brought pressure on Ed to "buy in" and we might never have found out how great he could be in the right system. The funny thing is that I think Al's system would work best against the type of offense we always had. We had little patience to chip our way down the field and always wanted to score from a distance. We usually we successful but once in a while someone would frustrate us into defeat. The nightmare with psu is an example. We were running all over them but just had to throw as we got close to end zone and bam another pick. I thought our defense was doing that to criminoles for the 1st half last year and it was working BUT Jimbo made adjustments and starting going underneath us and we had no QB to compete. The problem is that most of the teams we face are just fine chipping down the field 5 or 6 yards a play for 500 yards.

The difference between Al and JJ is that JJ abandoned his offense and took on ours and then took advantage of our dna to create an even better defense. Al is just superimposing his entire blueprint on dna that it doesn't fit. Hence, size is more important than speed; order is more important than instincts; keys are more important than aggression. Al is a coach than given the right team, could beat our classic teams ONCE in a lifetime. But I don't think he has a clue as to how to win with OUR team.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%
 
Advertisement
talent cant over come this coaching staff.

this staff basically straps cement shoes on our players and drops them off the MacArthur
 
Coaches aren't magicians. The role of a coach is primarily to maximize individual talent in the context of a team performance. I think the best way to judge a coach is not through record, stats or other outcomes; it's to try to answer "does this team perform below or above its collective talent level?" Can a coach do more with less?
 
LuCane said:
Coaches aren't magicians. The role of a coach is primarily to maximize individual talent in the context of a team performance. I think the best way to judge a coach is not through record, stats or other outcomes; it's to try to answer "does this team perform below or above its collective talent level?" Can a coach do more with less?
Click to expand...

And how do you feel our staff has done with this so far?

Do you feel as though this team has looked as good as it can be?

Has our talent been maxed out? Do you feel as though our players are being utilized in the best way possible?
 
Gatorhater said:
It was said of Bear Bryant that he could take his players and beat yours, then he could take your players and beat his. Howard is from Bear's coaching tree, so maybe that is why he thought good coaching was all Miami ever needed.
Click to expand...

This ^^^
 
Advertisement
IMO...

When the talent level between two teams is somewhat close, coaching usually wins.

When the talent gap is overwhelming then the result is usually inevitable.

Just like LuCane said, I judge coaches based on what they do with what they have.

It's not always fair to judge a coach simply on wins/losses. Anybody can coach the 2001 Miami Hurricanes. Let me see what you do without a roster full of future NFL pro bowlers. Anybody can win games with the kids at STA, Booker T or Miramar. Let me see what you do without a roster full of future D-1 players.
 
LuCane said:
Coaches aren't magicians. The role of a coach is primarily to maximize individual talent in the context of a team performance. I think the best way to judge a coach is not through record, stats or other outcomes; it's to try to answer "does this team perform below or above its collective talent level?" Can a coach do more with less?
Click to expand...

Ah, and there we have the division on this board. Plenty keep stating wait till Golden has all his 4/5 star JR/SR squad and then we will win the coastal...
 
LuCane said:
Coaches aren't magicians. The role of a coach is primarily to maximize individual talent in the context of a team performance. I think the best way to judge a coach is not through record, stats or other outcomes; it's to try to answer "does this team perform below or above its collective talent level?" Can a coach do more with less?
Click to expand...

i.e. Coach L.
 
The thing about Golden is that we have idea if his system will work, even when he gets all the players he wants. Honestly, I can't stand the fact that we completely give up short yardage passing. Like ****, obviously a team is going to take 5 yards every play when they know it'll be there. I feel Golden's D, gives up a bunch of yards, and is based on just waiting for the offense to mess up and hoping we are able to capitalize, rather than going out there and forcing a mistake. And that ISNT Miami Defense. that isn't how our defense should be. We should be punishing qb's and taking risks instead of trying to limit deep plays, even though he's just gunna give up the yards anyway.
 
Advertisement
LuCane said:
Coaches aren't magicians. The role of a coach is primarily to maximize individual talent in the context of a team performance. I think the best way to judge a coach is not through record, stats or other outcomes; it's to try to answer "does this team perform below or above its collective talent level?" Can a coach do more with less?
Click to expand...
Cutcliffe did more with less
Golden did less than the collective talent he had
Charlie Strong did more with less
Mack Brown did less with more
Michigan State coaches do more with less
Lane Kiffin did less with more
Leach does more with less
UCF coaches did more with less

So many coaches out there that maximize their talent and win games they shouldn't because they know how to squeeze every ounce of talent out of their team. Not a single person on this board can say Al Golden is one of those coaches.
 
cp7705 said:
Gator, I don't think that's fair. If an Ed Reed type of player was in the secondary, I think Al would let him do what he was best at. But I don't see that type of range, speed and athleticism in Bush or Jenkins. I see the instincts in Howard though. Judging because of that play he jumped that screen in the UVA game. I am pretty sure if he did not make that INT/TD, he would have gotten yelled at for sure. But I think the cupboards were so bare when RS left, that we needed to get in players, but the best way to be successful was them to be controlled and play within a system. I think this year and further, we are just going to recruit talented players. Once they learn the fundamentals, they'll start to let the leash go and let the sheer instinct and athleticism make plays.
Click to expand...
Speed and athleticism had next to nothing to do with Ed Reed being possibly GOAT safety.

Putting players on a leash isn't the way to let them grow IMO. Playing within the system obviously didn't make our players better, and that is directly on the staff.
 
calinative umstudent said:
The thing about Golden is that we have idea if his system will work, even when he gets all the players he wants. Honestly, I can't stand the fact that we completely give up short yardage passing. Like ****, obviously a team is going to take 5 yards every play when they know it'll be there. I feel Golden's D, gives up a bunch of yards, and is based on just waiting for the offense to mess up and hoping we are able to capitalize, rather than going out there and forcing a mistake. And that ISNT Miami Defense. that isn't how our defense should be. We should be punishing qb's and taking risks instead of trying to limit deep plays, even though he's just gunna give up the yards anyway.
Click to expand...

I feel that the coaching staff played mostly safe is because they knew The talent we had. We were slow as he'll on defense and we didnt want to give up nothing.

What hurt is the miss tackles and the confusion in coverage. We were not good enough to make a mistake a captilize on it. We had to perfect because of who we had playing. I think with more depth, experience, and overall talent the staff will take a ton of risk this year.

More blitzes and turnovers. With DP52 now in middle that tells you we have more talent so that he can be. With artie burns and Tracy being able to play on an island and way better safety play we can bring safety blitzes as well.


There is no way in heck we were going to call safety blitzes with highsmith. Game would have been over before he realized it was a blitz. Be prepared for a different defense.
 
We are one Defensive Coordinator and another solid recruiting class away from being an NC contender.

Simple as that.

Even if the talent is there, we will never even reach a BCS bowl game with Doughnut as our DC.
 
Advertisement
RBhurricane87 said:
We are one Defensive Coordinator and another solid recruiting class away from being an NC contender.

Simple as that.

Even if the talent is there, we will never even reach a BCS bowl game with Doughnut as our DC.
Click to expand...
So, you think this defense is fine, we just have the wrong guy running it?
 
RBhurricane87 said:
We are one Defensive Coordinator and another solid recruiting class away from being an NC contender.

Simple as that.

Even if the talent is there, we will never even reach a BCS bowl game with Doughnut as our DC.
Click to expand...

I would love this guy as UM's next DC, if he was here now we would be a top 10 team with current roster.

[video=youtube_share;z53_nL3ip0k]http://youtu.be/z53_nL3ip0k[/video]
 
Advertisement
calinative umstudent said:
The thing about Golden is that we have idea if his system will work, even when he gets all the players he wants. Honestly, I can't stand the fact that we completely give up short yardage passing. Like ****, obviously a team is going to take 5 yards every play when they know it'll be there. I feel Golden's D, gives up a bunch of yards, and is based on just waiting for the offense to mess up and hoping we are able to capitalize, rather than going out there and forcing a mistake. And that ISNT Miami Defense. that isn't how our defense should be. We should be punishing qb's and taking risks instead of trying to limit deep plays, even though he's just gunna give up the yards anyway.
Click to expand...

thats where you are wrong. we know with 100% certainty that his defense is garbage. it has already failed. **** this BS defense

just reading your description of this defense sends me into a rage. I hate these ******* coaches
 
NVA CANE said:
LuCane said:
Coaches aren't magicians. The role of a coach is primarily to maximize individual talent in the context of a team performance. I think the best way to judge a coach is not through record, stats or other outcomes; it's to try to answer "does this team perform below or above its collective talent level?" Can a coach do more with less?
Click to expand...
Cutcliffe did more with less
Golden did less than the collective talent he had
Charlie Strong did more with less
Mack Brown did less with more
Michigan State coaches do more with less
Lane Kiffin did less with more
Leach does more with less
UCF coaches did more with less

So many coaches out there that maximize their talent and win games they shouldn't because they know how to squeeze every ounce of talent out of their team. Not a single person on this board can say Al Golden is one of those coaches.
Click to expand...

niner, DerpU83, and KlanAlmighty will tell you that *** is an awesome coach. he had a top 20 defense one time at Temple
 
CaneAlmighty said:
WildcatDefense said:
Just like LuCane said, I judge coaches based on what they do with what they have.
Click to expand...

I second this but would also add "in which the circumstances they are coaching under"
Click to expand...
That defeats the whole point of a coach doing more with less. Bill O'Brien had as tough if not a tougher job than Golden did in his first year. He got PSU to 8 wins, in a season when players were allowed to transfer, there was a whole new coaching staff and culture change. . That guy took a team that didn't have much talent and significantly over achieved.

Golden faced adversity in his first season as well, having the NCAA mess drop and having players suspended. But he went 6-6. Golden had more talent on that Miami team than O'Brien did on that PSU team.

Result:
O'Brien did more with less
Golden did less with more
 
Advertisement
Back
Top