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CB Xavier Lucas is transferring to Miami

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QuattroCane said:
Can someone explain to me why Wisconsin fans et al are so ****ed about this guy transferring?
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This is as good a question as any to lay out what is REALLY happening.

I have a few secret log-ins that I use to read the boards of rival schools. And it is pretty clear that what sets Xavier Lucas apart is that Wisconsin fans were led to believe that they had discovered the Northwest Passage, a secret pathway that would allow them to defeat the Portal for TWO YEARS with a simple revenue-sharing agreement. You know, the same revenue-sharing that will be available at all NCAA schools.

So let's title this post "Let's talk about the Revenue-Sharing deal, which is the real issue, and let's ignore 'Tampering', which is the banana in the tailpipe".

Here is the reality. Wisconsin has 25 outgoing Portal football players. Apparently, Wisconsin processed the Portal paperwork for 24 football players within 48 hours. So what is the difference between the other 24 players and Xavier Lucas.

It's a very simple answer. Xavier Lucas signed a mysterious, as-yet-unproduced document that Wisconsin officials and fans BELIEVE will tie Xavier Lucas to Wisconsin for TWO YEARS. The other 24 did not sign such a document. Wisconsin believes that they have invented the kryptonite that defeats THE PORTAL, and now they want to get credit for being an early adopter and they want the Wisconsin name to be associated with a brave (but doomed) effort to destroy the Portal.

Allow me to explain. We all know that "revenue-sharing" is on the horizon. And revenue-sharing is a PIECE of the overall NIL puzzle. For over 100 years, the NCAA has fought against giving a dime of economic compensation to student athletes if that compensation arose from economic deals made by the NCAA or the schools themselves. Revenue such as TV broadcast rights, or the sale of branded athletic merchandise (which can sometimes be as specific as a player's name and number), or the royalties arising from video games (which used to include specifics such as a player's name and number and physical characteristics). This type of revenue-sharing NIL is separate from what a student-athlete can earn in third-party deals, such as signing a contract with Bose to represent high-end headphones.

And what they Big 10 is ATTEMPTING to do (and what Wisconsin has done) is to use a common template agreement to try to get ahead of the issue. Never mind that these deals will have to be approved by the NCAA. NOPE, JUST IGNORE THAT, WE ARE THE BIG 10 AND WISCONSIN AND WE DON'T WANT YOU TO PAY ATTENTION TO THAT. What is actually happening is that players who signed an NIL deal for January-December of 2024 are now wondering "hey, when and how much am I going to get paid in 2025". And because 2025 classes start in January and the House settlement will not be known-with-certainty or effective FOR MONTHS.

The players are effectively saying "save the speeches for Malcolm X, I just wanna get paid" (and that's a paraphrase of a line from the movie "Heathers", so calm down). But this is not an ordinary year. The single-most-significant change in NCAA history is about to go down. And in light of that, the Big 10 and Wisconsin are NOT holding open houses and Q&A sessions to educate the players on the impact of the new rules. NOPE, they are just sliding them "new" NIL deals for them to sign without reading. As if they were just renewal forms for AppleCare or something. But these new revenue-sharing deals are NOT simple contracts. The Big 10 and Wisconsin are using the simple expectation of student-athletes that "hey, I gotta get paid in the off-season too" to CHANGE the payor (from the collective to the school) and make it CONTINGENT on some upcoming unknown event that, as recently as the past week, was found to be impacted by governmental decision-making as well. Whoops. Oh, and while we are describing the massive piece of wool that the Big 10 and Wisconsin are trying to pull over the eyes of their athletes, let's not forget the real Trojan Horse. THE TWO-YEAR GRANT OF RIGHTS.

Yeah, that's right, if you were sick of talking about Grant of Rights on the OTHER omnibus thread, now it rears its ugly head once again. Because the sneaky-little-****-Neidermeyer clause that the Big 10 and Wisconsin have inserted involves a 2-year exclusive grant of NIL rights (the revenue-sharing ones, like TV rights money, merch sales, and video game royalties). And THIS CLAUSE is the one that the Wisconsin administration and fanbase mistakenly believes will enslave athletes to Wisconsin for 2 years, with no hope of transferring.

And THAT is what makes Xavier Lucas "different" from the other 24 athletes who left Wisconsin safely, without being rounded up by dogs and fugitive-slave-catchers. It's not "tampering". It's the "signed contract", silly.

But "tampering" sounds so much sexier in press releases...

Again, I empathize with fans who think 18 year old kids should suddenly be treated as adults, particularly when it comes to contractual bargaining and power equivalence between an 18 year old kid and, say, a Power 2 conference and "one of the most powerful universities in the world" (the way Wisconsin fans describe the University of Wisconsin). People are fond of saying "well, that sumbitch Xavier Lucas shoulda hired an attorney, right Vern?" And these are all wonderful thoughts for a perfect world that we will someday live in. But it's not a fair reflection of what is happening today.

No, what is happening today is that a P2 conference went out and drafted a document...and then shared it with these oh-so-powerful universities...and while I can't vouch for whether every Big 10 university was as sneaky and underhanded as Wisconsin, we can certainly describe what happened with Xavier Lucas. He was presented a document while he was still in school, not back home with his parents and/or advisors. He was led to believe it was "just another NIL deal" and it would take care of his spring semester payments, as he was going home to SoFla for a month for the holidays. And this magical document, which was contingent on an event that had not yet happened, also included a 2-year Grant of Rights, which had never been a part of any prior document. And Wisconsin pressured Xavier Lucas to sign this document on his own, while in Wisconsin, without sufficient legal review.

AND THEN, when Xavier Lucas had the UNMITIGATED GALL to submit transfer paperwork, a Wisconsin staffer tried to call him to tell him what a "huge mistake" he was making. That Xavier didn't understand the document he was attempting to spurn. OF COURSE HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT, YOU NITWIT CHEESEHEADS. NOBODY UNDERSTANDS IT.

And I get it. Wisconsin thought they could be slick and early and start locking up its 2025 roster with 2-year GORs. Interesting approach. Not so sure it's gonna hold up in court (it won't). But the really funny part is when you hear oh-so-brilliant cheesehead legal minds try to convince you that a 2-year GOR will PREVENT A PLAYER FROM PLAYING AT ANOTHER SCHOOL. Look, we all know the deal from discussing GORs ad infinitum. You can leave. But it's expensive.

So let's think this ALL THE WAY through. Does Wisconsin want to insist that they have Xavier's NIL rights for the next two years? Do they want to PAY a Miami player all that revenue-share money for Big 10 TV rights and Wisconsin merch sales? Seems unlikely. And Miami could simply say "Hey, Xavier, you can't get a revenue-share deal at Miami, but let's set you up with a Bose NIL deal. And then a MasTec NIL deal. And maybe even an Amazon Prime NIL deal, we have this new UM student, and I think his mom's boyfriend used to live in SoFla."

THIS is why Wisconsin (and the Big 10) are trying to get everyone to focus on the salacious "tampering" angle. Because the "we pushed a complex and contingent revenue-share deal on an 18 year old kid during his final exam period and forced him to sign it before he went home for the holiday break" does not sound quite as compelling.

So now, if we want to refocus the conversation and have a more reasonable discourse, let's do so. Because the cheeseheads have been deluded into thinking that this magical Big 10 contract template has given them a super-secret Defense Against the Dark Portal Arts for the next two years.

**** 'em.
 
DMoney said:
To me, this all seems like noise to set up the true goal: getting Congress to grant the NCAA a legal “safe harbor” from all its antitrust violations.

The Big 10 put out a statement which basically said: “ACC, you’re supposed to be with us in maintaining the facade that this House settlement is sustainable. Congress, please clean up this mess.”

The NCAA in court is comparable to Kirby Freeman against NC State. They need to a lifeline from Congress to maintain the scam.
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And I don’t believe they will ever get that lifeline. The NCAA is hated countrywide, they are a communist cartel that takes the freedoms away from players and institutions. And you better believe, that the government that’s in place now, believes in freedom above anything else. They would lose that lifeline in a Congress vote without a doubt. I would imagine you would agree with this Dmoney.
 
NicKane said:
They don’t have any evidence because Miami didn’t tamper. All this is, is a face saving statement by them. That is all! This all disappears now and if the NCAA wants to do their job, then Wisconsin will get sanctioned for breaking two rules. End of story.
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The amount of people on the internet that think because Wisconsin and the big 10 decided to issue statements with a lot of words Miami should start shaking in its boots is astounding. Anyone thinks this was anything other than performance art ? Maybe they want their rev share agreements to be the model and are laying groundwork for the future. Not sure what their end game is here
 
TheOriginalCane said:
People who are sportswriters should absolutely be sued for using a word like "steal".

You can't "steal" money under a contract that calls for future payments. You can't "steal" money if a contract does not contain a repayment clause.

Someone needs to share the tweet with Darren Heitner and then the Lucas family needs to sue "Georgita Perez" for slander.

Correction, this Georgita Perez clown needs to be sued YESTERDAY for slander:


View attachment 318250
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It’s a parody account. Not a real person.
 
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ristwasdown said:
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I urge everyone to take a close look at Wisconsin's statement.

They tricked Xavier into signing a FUTURE and CONTINGENT NIL-revenue-sharing deal (which does not yet even exist) on December 2nd. While he was in Madison, and without a real or effective way to consult with his family or advisors.

Wisconsin held his spring semester NIL payments hostage to compel him to sign the deal based on the House settlement that might never happen (or might be very different from what was known on December 2nd).

The House settlement is the single-biggest change to the NCAA rules landscape in history. And the NCAA is going to be approving future NIL deals. But, sure, without any sort of educational efforts or opportunities for athletes to answer questions, the Big 10 and Wisconsin created a TWO YEAR GRANT-OF-RIGHTS that is completely different from any prior NIL deals signed by any athletes, and they did it while pressuring a player to sign without consulting with an attorney.

Brilliant...sure...I see no reason why any court in the land would not absolutely uphold this ridiculous document...RIGHT?

I realize UM will stay quiet. But UM fans need to start shining the spotlight on this insane Big-10-drafted/Wisconson-approved two year grant of rights bull**** that is being shoved down players throats, while they are told "but you signed a 2-year contract, ************"...
 
TheOriginalCane said:
People who are sportswriters should absolutely be sued for using a word like "steal".

You can't "steal" money under a contract that calls for future payments. You can't "steal" money if a contract does not contain a repayment clause.

Someone needs to share the tweet with Darren Heitner and then the Lucas family needs to sue "Georgita Perez" for slander.

Correction, this Georgita Perez clown needs to be sued YESTERDAY for slander:


View attachment 318250
Click to expand...
That’s a parody account - or at least operates as one if you go back to his previous tweets
 
What's embarrassing for wisconsin in this is they're essentially admitting that they can't compete in an open marketplace for talent.

They should be focusing on talent attraction and retention by boosting its NIL coffers and/or using its BIG paycheck to improve its athletic facilities. Instead they are broadcasting "we can't compete financially for your talent so we will do everything in our power to hold you hostage"

High School recruits need to pay close attention to this situation. At Miami we will honor our NIL commitment to you and let you move to greener pastures if you have better prospects at another institution. At Wisconsin (and maybe other BIG schools) instead of competing for your talent they will try to find a sleazy legal maneuver to hold you hostage.
 
Ispyin said:


Tried to warn some of you on this point- Wisconsin has power in the big ten.

Still **** Wisconsin

Get ready for Iowa state to become a rival 🤣


all kidding aside, if Miami somehow is proven of tampering -which I doubt but who knows what “evidence” they claim to have - and down the road this acquisition somehow Impacts realignment, well that would suck to high heaven
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This is not about "Wisconsin" having power in the Big 10.

There is a very specific reason why "the Big 10" is announcing that they are "standing behind Wisconsin".

It's because the Big 10 drafted the bull**** 2-year Grant of Rights that Xavier Lucas signed.

They will never admit that the "contract" was a pile of horse****.
 
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PennsylvaniaCane said:
So why would a student athlete sign a rev sharing agreement if it ties them in to a university with no ability to portal out?
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Because they were uninformed and pressured to sign without legal advice.

Now that this "issue" is more well-known, let's see how the "common template" goes for the Big 10 and its member schools.

I've said this plenty of times before. If a school wants to PURCHASE a student-athlete's right to transfer for two years, they have to SEPARATELY STATE that and separately pay for it. They can't use a 2-year grant of rights to prevent a student-athlete from transferring.
 
DMoney said:
I just don’t understand the remedy. Do they want to claim tortious interference? I don’t see damages, unless they want to be transparent and detailed about pay to play. Specific performance of personal services is out.
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I'm also at a loss on the tortious interference thing, as it would require Miami and/or the Miami collective to have actual knowledge of the revenue-sharing contract. Which we did not.

Not to mention, Wisconsin has no damages.


1737297235838.png
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
Here's a potentially better question. This revenue sharing is coming as a result of the House v. NCAA settlement, which was a lawsuit seeking unpaid back pay for student athletes (and through which former student athletes are also receiving under the settlement). It will require revenue sharing.

So why would any student athlete need to sign anything to qualify for the revenue sharing? Seems to me they are already entitled to that $$$ by virtue of their playing a sport for the school.
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Ah, but Wisconsin also slid a "two year grant of rights" in there too...

That's all THEY care about.
 
Ispyin said:
XL’S lawyer has said he did not receive any payment so unless he is lying, I’m not sure what they are out of on an agreement that is just an MOU with conditions that haven’t even been met yet on something that’s not even final yet
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Not sure why Wisconsin fans can't grasp this, but you can't get paid for revenue-sharing before revenue-sharing actually exists.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
This is as good a question as any to lay out what is REALLY happening.

I have a few secret log-ins that I use to read the boards of rival schools. And it is pretty clear that what sets Xavier Lucas apart is that Wisconsin fans were led to believe that they had discovered the Northwest Passage, a secret pathway that would allow them to defeat the Portal for TWO YEARS with a simple revenue-sharing agreement. You know, the same revenue-sharing that will be available at all NCAA schools.

So let's title this post "Let's talk about the Revenue-Sharing deal, which is the real issue, and let's ignore 'Tampering', which is the banana in the tailpipe".

Here is the reality. Wisconsin has 25 outgoing Portal football players. Apparently, Wisconsin processed the Portal paperwork for 24 football players within 48 hours. So what is the difference between the other 24 players and Xavier Lucas.

It's a very simple answer. Xavier Lucas signed a mysterious, as-yet-unproduced document that Wisconsin officials and fans BELIEVE will tie Xavier Lucas to Wisconsin for TWO YEARS. The other 24 did not sign such a document. Wisconsin believes that they have invented the kryptonite that defeats THE PORTAL, and now they want to get credit for being an early adopter and they want the Wisconsin name to be associated with a brave (but doomed) effort to destroy the Portal.

Allow me to explain. We all know that "revenue-sharing" is on the horizon. And revenue-sharing is a PIECE of the overall NIL puzzle. For over 100 years, the NCAA has fought against giving a dime of economic compensation to student athletes if that compensation arose from economic deals made by the NCAA or the schools themselves. Revenue such as TV broadcast rights, or the sale of branded athletic merchandise (which can sometimes be as specific as a player's name and number), or the royalties arising from video games (which used to include specifics such as a player's name and number and physical characteristics). This type of revenue-sharing NIL is separate from what a student-athlete can earn in third-party deals, such as signing a contract with Bose to represent high-end headphones.

And what they Big 10 is ATTEMPTING to do (and what Wisconsin has done) is to use a common template agreement to try to get ahead of the issue. Never mind that these deals will have to be approved by the NCAA. NOPE, JUST IGNORE THAT, WE ARE THE BIG 10 AND WISCONSIN AND WE DON'T WANT YOU TO PAY ATTENTION TO THAT. What is actually happening is that players who signed an NIL deal for January-December of 2024 are now wondering "hey, when and how much am I going to get paid in 2025". And because 2025 classes start in January and the House settlement will not be known-with-certainty or effective FOR MONTHS.

The players are effectively saying "save the speeches for Malcolm X, I just wanna get paid" (and that's a paraphrase of a line from the movie "Heathers", so calm down). But this is not an ordinary year. The single-most-significant change in NCAA history is about to go down. And in light of that, the Big 10 and Wisconsin are NOT holding open houses and Q&A sessions to educate the players on the impact of the new rules. NOPE, they are just sliding them "new" NIL deals for them to sign without reading. As if they were just renewal forms for AppleCare or something. But these new revenue-sharing deals are NOT simple contracts. The Big 10 and Wisconsin are using the simple expectation of student-athletes that "hey, I gotta get paid in the off-season too" to CHANGE the payor (from the collective to the school) and make it CONTINGENT on some upcoming unknown event that, as recently as the past week, was found to be impacted by governmental decision-making as well. Whoops. Oh, and while we are describing the massive piece of wool that the Big 10 and Wisconsin are trying to pull over the eyes of their athletes, let's not forget the real Trojan Horse. THE TWO-YEAR GRANT OF RIGHTS.

Yeah, that's right, if you were sick of talking about Grant of Rights on the OTHER omnibus thread, now it rears its ugly head once again. Because the sneaky-little-****-Neidermeyer clause that the Big 10 and Wisconsin have inserted involves a 2-year exclusive grant of NIL rights (the revenue-sharing ones, like TV rights money, merch sales, and video game royalties). And THIS CLAUSE is the one that the Wisconsin administration and fanbase mistakenly believes will enslave athletes to Wisconsin for 2 years, with no hope of transferring.

And THAT is what makes Xavier Lucas "different" from the other 24 athletes who left Wisconsin safely, without being rounded up by dogs and fugitive-slave-catchers. It's not "tampering". It's the "signed contract", silly.

But "tampering" sounds so much sexier in press releases...

Again, I empathize with fans who think 18 year old kids should suddenly be treated as adults, particularly when it comes to contractual bargaining and power equivalence between an 18 year old kid and, say, a Power 2 conference and "one of the most powerful universities in the world" (the way Wisconsin fans describe the University of Wisconsin). People are fond of saying "well, that sumbitch Xavier Lucas shoulda hired an attorney, right Vern?" And these are all wonderful thoughts for a perfect world that we will someday live in. But it's not a fair reflection of what is happening today.

No, what is happening today is that a P2 conference went out and drafted a document...and then shared it with these oh-so-powerful universities...and while I can't vouch for whether every Big 10 university was as sneaky and underhanded as Wisconsin, we can certainly describe what happened with Xavier Lucas. He was presented a document while he was still in school, not back home with his parents and/or advisors. He was led to believe it was "just another NIL deal" and it would take care of his spring semester payments, as he was going home to SoFla for a month for the holidays. And this magical document, which was contingent on an event that had not yet happened, also included a 2-year Grant of Rights, which had never been a part of any prior document. And Wisconsin pressured Xavier Lucas to sign this document on his own, while in Wisconsin, without sufficient legal review.

AND THEN, when Xavier Lucas had the UNMITIGATED GALL to submit transfer paperwork, a Wisconsin staffer tried to call him to tell him what a "huge mistake" he was making. That Xavier didn't understand the document he was attempting to spurn. OF COURSE HE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT, YOU NITWIT CHEESEHEADS. NOBODY UNDERSTANDS IT.

And I get it. Wisconsin thought they could be slick and early and start locking up its 2025 roster with 2-year GORs. Interesting approach. Not so sure it's gonna hold up in court (it won't). But the really funny part is when you hear oh-so-brilliant cheesehead legal minds try to convince you that a 2-year GOR will PREVENT A PLAYER FROM PLAYING AT ANOTHER SCHOOL. Look, we all know the deal from discussing GORs ad infinitum. You can leave. But it's expensive.

So let's think this ALL THE WAY through. Does Wisconsin want to insist that they have Xavier's NIL rights for the next two years? Do they want to PAY a Miami player all that revenue-share money for Big 10 TV rights and Wisconsin merch sales? Seems unlikely. And Miami could simply say "Hey, Xavier, you can't get a revenue-share deal at Miami, but let's set you up with a Bose NIL deal. And then a MasTec NIL deal. And maybe even an Amazon Prime NIL deal, we have this new UM student, and I think his mom's boyfriend used to live in SoFla."

THIS is why Wisconsin (and the Big 10) are trying to get everyone to focus on the salacious "tampering" angle. Because the "we pushed a complex and contingent revenue-share deal on an 18 year old kid during his final exam period and forced him to sign it before he went home for the holiday break" does not sound quite as compelling.

So now, if we want to refocus the conversation and have a more reasonable discourse, let's do so. Because the cheeseheads have been deluded into thinking that this magical Big 10 contract template has given them a super-secret Defense Against the Dark Portal Arts for the next two years.

**** 'em.
Click to expand...

I usually struggle to read through your Tolstoyesque posts my friend. But you nailed it here.

And the BiG is backing UWI’s play because the MOU Wisky used is their template so they’re using social media (and no doubt 1:1 nonpublic intimidation tactics) to bully other athletes who may have signed it into not transferring, too.
 
For all recruits on here.
Miami has your back!!
And we got a kid out of a fcked up MOU that was illegal and he was (allegedly) threatened with playing time if he didn’t sign it.

Don’t buy into the media campaign that’s about to be unleashed against us.
 
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grover said:
I usually struggle to read through your Tolstoyesque posts my friend. But you nailed it here.

And the BiG is backing UWI’s play because the MOU Wisky used is their template so they’re using social media (and no doubt 1:1 nonpublic intimidation tactics) to bully other athletes who may have signed it into not transferring, too.
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Exactly.

And, hey, complex issues sometimes require Tolstoyesque posts.

But I will always endeavor to bring it back down to simplicity.

Big 10/Wisconsin thought they could lock up their rosters for 2 years with a boilerplate template that is contingent upon a future event. Big 10/Wisconsin find it inconceivable that they can lose here.



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