Caroll: Welcome to the U

[C A N S]

Flowers, Gadbois and Isadora will all be in this class. Add one more and that's very solid.

 

[Chucksta80]

If my understanding is correct, we can only sign 29 this year, regardless of who leaves early, transfers, etc.

According to Ace64, we can only sign 27.


Im of the opinion that we must sign at least one more O lineman. I think we see one more safety. So if nothing changes with the existing class, we'll only have room for two more.

That's what Ace says, and he's almost always right, but Golden has said he wants 30+. Lots of variables here and it's hard to pin down an exact number without knowing what the staff knows.

Ace and I are referring to FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIPS. As we know, there are other ways to get a guy on campus. But as far as football ships are concerned, we can only sign 27 or 29.

I don't think that's right. There are going to be some departures. In terms of the 25 rule, have to see how many we can take back to this year but it's enough that we can sign 30+

I think the 27/29 # is correct if today was the cutoff day, but I don't think it takes into account who all is going to stay, declare, force transfer (let's call it what it is), etc.

 

[JHallCanes]

Chuck, I think the "force transfer" one is the big one. Golden has had a year to get in there and see what direction the team was going in and to see who he wants moving forward. I think we see quite a few transfers at the end of the year.

 

[hawaiicane]

OT is alright. Washington, J Johnson, Bunche, Feliciano, Barton, and Henderson all return. We have Flowers, Gadbois committed.

What we desperately need are OG and C. We are going to be ***ked here unless we get real lucky with no injuries or perfect evals or some of those OT switch. Linder, Wheeler, and McDermott are all we have, with Jeremy Lewis and Wells providing warm bodies. That looks like a 1 deep to me.

 

[SFbayCane]

Flowers, Gadbois and Isadora will all be in this class. Add one more and that's very solid.

Those 3 would make a good O line class IMO. Im hopeful we add one more but I dont see it, numbers-wise. Remember, Gadbois was supposed to be a 2011 kid. So we're really trying to fill two classes of O line in this one class.

Of course we're also trying to do that at like 4 other positions as well. sheesh.

 

[SFbayCane]

If my understanding is correct, we can only sign 29 this year, regardless of who leaves early, transfers, etc.

According to Ace64, we can only sign 27.


Im of the opinion that we must sign at least one more O lineman. I think we see one more safety. So if nothing changes with the existing class, we'll only have room for two more.

That's what Ace says, and he's almost always right, but Golden has said he wants 30+. Lots of variables here and it's hard to pin down an exact number without knowing what the staff knows.

Ace and I are referring to FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIPS. As we know, there are other ways to get a guy on campus. But as far as football ships are concerned, we can only sign 27 or 29.

I don't think that's right. There are going to be some departures. In terms of the 25 rule, have to see how many we can take back to this year but it's enough that we can sign 30+

We signed 21 in 2011, that leaves us with four kids from this class that we can use as EE's that count towards last year. Here's where Ace and I disagree a bit. The rules state that you can NEVER be over 85. According to my understanding of the rule, we need 4 of the departing kids to graduate by this December, then we will be able to count 4 towards last year. Add that to 25 this year = 29 total.

However, according to ACe's understanding of the rules, the 85 limit is at a fixed point in time at the start of every fall camp (call it August 15th). On August 15th of this year, we had 83 kids on the roster. Hence, we can only count a max of TWO EE kids towards 2011. (+25 for 2012) = 27 for this year.

So its either 27 or 29 for this year, no more. Keep in mind Im talking FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIPS. There are other ways of getting kids on campus but they wont be able to play until they fit into the numbers down the line.

 

[Larry]

OT is alright. Washington, J Johnson, Bunche, Feliciano, Barton, and Henderson all return. We have Flowers, Gadbois committed.

What we desperately need are OG and C. We are going to be ***ked here unless we get real lucky with no injuries or perfect evals or some of those OT switch. Linder, Wheeler, and McDermott are all we have, with Jeremy Lewis and Wells providing warm bodies. That looks like a 1 deep to me.

Jermaine Johnson just might be a full-time defensive tackle next season...he's flip flopped this year a bit depending on depth.
Jermaine Barton is a kid that could still end up on the other side of the ball.

I think we can rule both of those guys out of the OT mix as contributors at those spots. Let's call a spade a spade.

Henderson
Bunche
Feliciano

Washington is still a better guard than tackle and if you recall, Bunche and Feliciano were guard prospects as recruits. Gunn and Horn graduate from the interior and Figueroa moves on as well, which opens up for a reshuffling of the line once again.

Flowers and Gadbois add two more natural tackles to the mix. Isadora is a guard.

I couldn't say that one more tackle would be a bad thing.

 

[Ethnicsands]

If my understanding is correct, we can only sign 29 this year, regardless of who leaves early, transfers, etc.

According to Ace64, we can only sign 27.


Im of the opinion that we must sign at least one more O lineman. I think we see one more safety. So if nothing changes with the existing class, we'll only have room for two more.

That's what Ace says, and he's almost always right, but Golden has said he wants 30+. Lots of variables here and it's hard to pin down an exact number without knowing what the staff knows.

Ace and I are referring to FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIPS. As we know, there are other ways to get a guy on campus. But as far as football ships are concerned, we can only sign 27 or 29.

I don't think that's right. There are going to be some departures. In terms of the 25 rule, have to see how many we can take back to this year but it's enough that we can sign 30+

We signed 21 in 2011, that leaves us with four kids from this class that we can use as EE's that count towards last year. Here's where Ace and I disagree a bit. The rules state that you can NEVER be over 85. According to my understanding of the rule, we need 4 of the departing kids to graduate by this December, then we will be able to count 4 towards last year. Add that to 25 this year = 29 total.

However, according to ACe's understanding of the rules, the 85 limit is at a fixed point in time at the start of every fall camp (call it August 15th). On August 15th of this year, we had 83 kids on the roster. Hence, we can only count a max of TWO EE kids towards 2011. (+25 for 2012) = 27 for this year.

So its either 27 or 29 for this year, no more. Keep in mind Im talking FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIPS. There are other ways of getting kids on campus but they wont be able to play until they fit into the numbers down the line.

Man, it's been a while since i was current on this stuff, but i think that's not right at all. You don't measure the entry/exit rule (25) by reference to the maximum scholarship rule -- they're separate concepts. Say I had 85 kids on the roster this year, but all of them were carry-overs and I brought in no new kids this year. Then I have all 25 of this year's spots to give out in January and count backwards, as long as there are spots that open because of end of eligibility/departure.

As far as kids we brought in this year, you count only August, not kids who enrolled last January, because they're off the cycle by this January. I don't think we brought in 21 kids in August. IMO you have the balance of what is available from August to enroll in January and count backwards, and a new 25 for Jan/Aug '12. All subject to not going over the 85 cap.

 

[bomb]

We will sign 30+ unless we get limited by probation or kids get scared off. I refuse to re-type what I have to type every year There are plenty of ways, especially with our currently light roster. You can't have more than 25 enroll in August. And you can't have more than 85 on ship. Everything else can be gamed. Like I say annually... just watch!

 

[hawaiicane]

Yes, we are going to need a ton of attrition to get a 30+ man class. We have 82 kids on schollie and 18 SRs. That means we can only accept 21 kids for the 2012 class, unless we get early NFL departures, transfers, etc. Some are pretty obvious but we will have to make some hard decisions on others.

ETA: I think we will see some bigtime housecleaning again so i also expect a 30 man class.

 

[SFbayCane]

We will sign 30+ unless we get limited by probation or kids get scared off. I refuse to re-type what I have to type every year There are plenty of ways, especially with our currently light roster. You can't have more than 25 enroll in August. And you can't have more than 85 on ship. Everything else can be gamed. Like I say annually... just watch!

No disagreement here. In fact I stated in all caps that I'm refering to FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIPS. There are other ways to get kids on campus, but as far as football ships are concerned, we only have 27 or 29 for this class depending on whose interpretation of the rule is correct, ACE64 or me.

 

[SFbayCane]

Man, it's been a while since i was current on this stuff, but i think that's not right at all. You don't measure the entry/exit rule (25) by reference to the maximum scholarship rule -- they're separate concepts. Say I had 85 kids on the roster this year, but all of them were carry-overs and I brought in no new kids this year. Then I have all 25 of this year's spots to give out in January and count backwards, as long as there are spots that open because of end of eligibility/departure.

As far as kids we brought in this year, you count only August, not kids who enrolled last January, because they're off the cycle by this January. I don't think we brought in 21 kids in August. IMO you have the balance of what is available from August to enroll in January and count backwards, and a new 25 for Jan/Aug '12. All subject to not going over the 85 cap.

I believe that your understanding of the rules is off a bit. For ANY KIDS to be EE's and be counted towards the previous class, the outgoing kids must graduate by December. That's typically a non-issue at UM as so many kids stay and take classes over the summers that they almost all graduate by December of their 4th year. However, it sort of flies in the face of your "sign zero in February and 50 the next Feb with 25 counting back a class.

There are two hard caps: 25 per recruiting year and 85 max. Again, my understanding is that the 85 rule hovers over top of the 25 rule. According to ACE, it stands along side and is based on the recruiting year calendar.

 

[Chicken_N_Roffles]

We didn't sign 21 players last year. Grooms, Kinard, and Gadbois didn't make it in. So that's 18. Also, pretty sure at least a couple of the guys were EE's and counted towards the 2010 class. I believe it was Botts, Pierre, Finnie, and Chickillo(?).

 

[Chicken_N_Roffles]

Darius Smith as well. Not sure if all of them counted towards the 2010 class, but pretty sure we had at least a couple of slots open.

 

[hawaiicane]

We didn't sign 21 players last year. Grooms, Kinard, and Gadbois didn't make it in. So that's 18. Also, pretty sure at least a couple of the guys were EE's and counted towards the 2010 class. I believe it was Botts, Pierre, Finnie, and Chickillo(?).

Yep. 18 kids last year. That means theoretically we could get 32 in for 2012 if 7 of them enroll early.

The hard 85 number is the true concern. Cramming 32 kids into this class means we need to attrit 10+ kids between now and August. Guys like Ben Jones, Sanders, Holton are no brainers. But the hard decisions come with guys like Thompkins, Davon Johnson, Shayon Greene, White, Calhoun, etc.

 

[bomb]

We will sign 30+ unless we get limited by probation or kids get scared off. I refuse to re-type what I have to type every year There are plenty of ways, especially with our currently light roster. You can't have more than 25 enroll in August. And you can't have more than 85 on ship. Everything else can be gamed. Like I say annually... just watch!

No disagreement here. In fact I stated in all caps that I'm refering to FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIPS. There are other ways to get kids on campus, but as far as football ships are concerned, we only have 27 or 29 for this class depending on whose interpretation of the rule is correct, ACE64 or me.

I am guessing we won't bring a single kid in on track, etc, but will sign 30+ to football scholarships. Hold me to it!

IIRC, there are two things you can't do, ENROLL more than 25 FOR FALL, or go over 85 at any one time. That's about it. Think creatively, there are a lot of ways to game that. In fact, I don't think January kids need to even be attributed to "last years class" in any way.

In other words, I am saying I believe you can sign and enroll 25 in Fall of 2012, bring in 10 Juco's in January, and enroll another 25 in fall of 2013 as long as you never go above 85. Again, the only thing "25" pertains to is the number of S/A you can enroll in any given Fall. I am putting that out there, and welcome hard proof that I am wrong. I honestly haven't researched the official rules, this is just the conclusion I have come to over the years.

 

[SFbayCane]

We didn't sign 21 players last year. Grooms, Kinard, and Gadbois didn't make it in. So that's 18. Also, pretty sure at least a couple of the guys were EE's and counted towards the 2010 class. I believe it was Botts, Pierre, Finnie, and Chickillo(?).

Ya know, that's interesting. When ACE and I had this discussion the number of 21 for 2010 was used as a given. I didnt research it, I just plugged it in. I'm just now realizing that it should have been 18. That means that we can sign 25 +6 = 31 assuming: (1) we have 29 total kids leave this year and (2) of those 29, six kids who have their degree and are leaving the football program, via draft, graduation, end of eligibility or transfer.

 

[SFbayCane]

We will sign 30+ unless we get limited by probation or kids get scared off. I refuse to re-type what I have to type every year There are plenty of ways, especially with our currently light roster. You can't have more than 25 enroll in August. And you can't have more than 85 on ship. Everything else can be gamed. Like I say annually... just watch!

No disagreement here. In fact I stated in all caps that I'm refering to FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIPS. There are other ways to get kids on campus, but as far as football ships are concerned, we only have 27 or 29 for this class depending on whose interpretation of the rule is correct, ACE64 or me.

I am guessing we won't bring a single kid in on track, etc, but will sign 30+ to football scholarships. Hold me to it!

IIRC, there are two things you can't do, ENROLL more than 25 FOR FALL, or go over 85 at any one time. That's about it. Think creatively, there are a lot of ways to game that. In fact, I don't think January kids need to even be attributed to "last years class" in any way.

In other words, I am saying I believe you can sign and enroll 25 in Fall of 2012, bring in 10 Juco's in January, and enroll another 25 in fall of 2013 as long as you never go above 85. Again, the only thing "25" pertains to is the number of S/A you can enroll in any given Fall. I am putting that out there, and welcome hard proof that I am wrong. I honestly haven't researched the official rules, this is just the conclusion I have come to over the years.

Not to try and one-up you, but I've read the NCAA rules several times and I've STILL seen stuff that doesnt mesh, yet coaches do it seemingly every year. So Im certainly not gonna call you out on this one.

 

[Travis Bickle]

I think 32 is the right number. (7 early, 25 this year).

 

[Ethnicsands]

Man, it's been a while since i was current on this stuff, but i think that's not right at all. You don't measure the entry/exit rule (25) by reference to the maximum scholarship rule -- they're separate concepts. Say I had 85 kids on the roster this year, but all of them were carry-overs and I brought in no new kids this year. Then I have all 25 of this year's spots to give out in January and count backwards, as long as there are spots that open because of end of eligibility/departure.

As far as kids we brought in this year, you count only August, not kids who enrolled last January, because they're off the cycle by this January. I don't think we brought in 21 kids in August. IMO you have the balance of what is available from August to enroll in January and count backwards, and a new 25 for Jan/Aug '12. All subject to not going over the 85 cap.

I believe that your understanding of the rules is off a bit. For ANY KIDS to be EE's and be counted towards the previous class, the outgoing kids must graduate by December. That's typically a non-issue at UM as so many kids stay and take classes over the summers that they almost all graduate by December of their 4th year. However, it sort of flies in the face of your "sign zero in February and 50 the next Feb with 25 counting back a class.

There are two hard caps: 25 per recruiting year and 85 max. Again, my understanding is that the 85 rule hovers over top of the 25 rule. According to ACE, it stands along side and is based on the recruiting year calendar.

I'm not sure if you're just misreading my comment or we're disagreeing. If your point is the difference between end of eligibility and graduation, I guess ... except there's plenty of spots that will open up because kids just transfer or depart, so I don't think we'll have to worry about that distinction -- we're going to have room to take kids in January and carry them back and it'll be more than 4.