Camp Chatfield or Game Chatfield?

[brock]

Let's be real here, the only reason people care about this offer is because they think somehow it will help us with Tyson Campbell. But it won't.

Exactly... and that's been Brock's angle the whole time

No it's not, it won't hurt either. I been high on chatfield for a while regardless of how that affects nesta or tyson being in this class. I did say I was worried schools like lsu, osu, uf would try to play the package deal angle but I can own up to that unlike some of you

 

[supersaiyanshel]

If he balls out, he'll get an offer. This will be another Bandy situation. I think ultimately Rumph may end up making the call.

 

[brock]

Seems like if we offer we would be a big player in the recruitment. Hope he gets one

Seems like.

You also wanted to offer Chatfield in order to secure Silvera and/or Campbell. How did that work out?

I have "screenshots" in case you can't remember.

He's a good player and I've been big on him for along time....
This was from February of this year but you get the point


Productions matter to me... now that Nolan smith has emerged and transferred to img he might be ahead both of those guys imo

 

[Marcelo2988]

Brock had you evaluated his actual game play back when you said that or were you going off his reported sacks from last season?

Don't answer this

 

[brock]

Brock had you evaluated his actual game play back when you said that or were you going off his reported sacks from last season?

Don't answer this

The film, him constantly putting up big numbers every year since he has been starting as an underclassmen playing 5A ball in Florida even when Brian burns was there. 24 sacks as a junior isn't some small feat period... jon Garvin who had better numbers than I've ever seen a highshchool dlineman have with 98 tackles 58tfl 28 sacks. Chatfield had only 4 less sacks which is very impressive

 

[Billy D Williams]

I trust Kool's judgement and know their are limited DE's to take, but this kid just make plays like Tool Box. I don't think he'll be a developmental player either. He could be certainly be used in pass rush situations, LB and special teams. I also think the "potential" recruiting influence would be a positive. Plus the kid just makes plays.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Brock had you evaluated his actual game play back when you said that or were you going off his reported sacks from last season?

Don't answer this

The film, him constantly putting up big numbers every year since he has been starting as an underclassmen playing 5A ball in Florida even when Brian burns was there. 24 sacks as a junior isn't some small feat period... jon Garvin who had better numbers than I've ever seen a highshchool dlineman have with 98 tackles 58tfl 28 sacks. Chatfield had only 4 less sacks which is very impressive

So brock's answer, as expected, was the reported sacks.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I know the back story and how miserably his camp season went, but it is really hard for me to ignore his tape. He fits the idea of what coach Rumph said, 4.4 speed isn't anything if it doesn't translate. Though Kool mentioned he has a minimum number in mind to consider ends. I'm torn on this kid. Does he show out again this season and get an offer? Or does his on field play have a Nesta sized asterisk? What do y'all think?

Shark-fishing McElwain or Pep rally McElwain?

 

[brock]

Brock had you evaluated his actual game play back when you said that or were you going off his reported sacks from last season?

Don't answer this

The film, him constantly putting up big numbers every year since he has been starting as an underclassmen playing 5A ball in Florida even when Brian burns was there. 24 sacks as a junior isn't some small feat period... jon Garvin who had better numbers than I've ever seen a highshchool dlineman have with 98 tackles 58tfl 28 sacks. Chatfield had only 4 less sacks which is very impressive

So brock's answer, as expected, was the reported sacks.

We are talking about best pass rushers no? What other statistic do you normally measure a "pass rusher" effectiveness by...

 

[DTP]

I'm always iffy on the undersized pass rusher/tweener guys. There's a place for them in college football but not in the defense we're running right now. You could just move him to linebacker but for every Matt Thomas, there's ten Mike Smiths. Speaking of Smith, he had 18 sacks as a senior at Northwestern but that never translated to the college game. I don't get too enamored with high school sack numbers because light in the pants linemen that just run past slow footed high school tackles tend to pile up sack numbers. When they get matched up with against a high level o line recruit in one on one drills (like at camps) they get exposed.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Brock had you evaluated his actual game play back when you said that or were you going off his reported sacks from last season?

Don't answer this

The film, him constantly putting up big numbers every year since he has been starting as an underclassmen playing 5A ball in Florida even when Brian burns was there. 24 sacks as a junior isn't some small feat period... jon Garvin who had better numbers than I've ever seen a highshchool dlineman have with 98 tackles 58tfl 28 sacks. Chatfield had only 4 less sacks which is very impressive

So brock's answer, as expected, was the reported sacks.

We are talking about best pass rushers no? What other statistic do you normally measure a "pass rusher" effectiveness by...

Well, let's see...if you actually go to games, see live performances, evaluate on all factors...you might discover things that go beyond stats. Here's how football works: often times, the best defender might be subject to double or triple teams, or other schemes meant to limit effectiveness. Particularly when skill levels are disparate. I'm not saying that production isn't important, but to try to compare two different players based on one type of stat is silly.

You don't know the story on how the stats were amassed. Maybe a guy had a bunch of sacks against a lesser team. Maybe another guy had great stats in spite of triple teams. That's why UM's coaches have 6-figure salaries and you are living in mom's basement.

Normally, I would measure a "pass rusher" effectiveness by how disruptive he is, which INCLUDES whether an opposing team has to game-plan by running plays away from that particular player, double-teams, triple-teams, etc. I would also factor in harder factors to "quantify", but which could be seen on tape, such as forcing a QB to pull down his intended pass as he looks for another target, the "hurries", the "knockdowns", etc.

Brock, the "sack" stat wasn't invented and tracked until 1982. There are many great pass rushers who have no recorded "sacks", though some have tried to estimate these numbers.

The reason someone asked about "film" was to see what your response would be. And you answered "The film" followed by EVERY OTHER WORD OF YOUR RESPONSE being related to an analysis of statistics.

By the way, I am not claiming that I am some sort of expert either, but only that there is no substitute for seeing how a player plays LIVE and in person, how his opponent reacts to that player, and how much of an overall impact that player has even when he is one of the best on the field and his opponent is trying to neutralize him. With all due respect, sir, I simply doubt that you have seen any SoFla high school games live, and while you may have seen some highlight clips, you revert back to talking about statistics when questioned.

You are entitled to an opinion. But your opinion is that of a guy watching clips and reading stats lines from a comfy chair in Georgia. I trust our coaches and the evaluations they make with their own eyes and minds. I honestly do not believe we need some dude in Georgia constantly posting about how we should recruit some particular guy because his stats are "very impressive" (your words, not mine). We have one of the best defensive line coaches in the business, with access to every inch of video available for Chatman, and who has seen Chatman play live multiple times.

And then we have you and your statistical analysis.

It's one thing to "chat" on a website. It's another thing to post thousands of times about how we should be offering kids we have not offered.

 

[Canefam]

The odds are not in his favor, i.e. too short for a DE to ball out in college. They will always be the exception. If he gets an offer, it will be because he continues to perform at an exceptional level in his games at LB. Unfortunately, his speed is suspect as well and it's not at the level of other LB's we've recruited. He is not big enough to be a Strongside LB, he is not a MLB and too slow to be a weakside LB. We are talking college ball, not highschool. We probably won't know until after his season if Miami will offer. By that time, I suspect, he would have committed to UF. Either way, not a major loss.

 

[brock]

Brock had you evaluated his actual game play back when you said that or were you going off his reported sacks from last season?

Don't answer this

The film, him constantly putting up big numbers every year since he has been starting as an underclassmen playing 5A ball in Florida even when Brian burns was there. 24 sacks as a junior isn't some small feat period... jon Garvin who had better numbers than I've ever seen a highshchool dlineman have with 98 tackles 58tfl 28 sacks. Chatfield had only 4 less sacks which is very impressive

So brock's answer, as expected, was the reported sacks.

We are talking about best pass rushers no? What other statistic do you normally measure a "pass rusher" effectiveness by...

Well, let's see...if you actually go to games, see live performances, evaluate on all factors...you might discover things that go beyond stats. Here's how football works: often times, the best defender might be subject to double or triple teams, or other schemes meant to limit effectiveness. Particularly when skill levels are disparate. I'm not saying that production isn't important, but to try to compare two different players based on one type of stat is silly.

You don't know the story on how the stats were amassed. Maybe a guy had a bunch of sacks against a lesser team. Maybe another guy had great stats in spite of triple teams. That's why UM's coaches have 6-figure salaries and you are living in mom's basement.

Normally, I would measure a "pass rusher" effectiveness by how disruptive he is, which INCLUDES whether an opposing team has to game-plan by running plays away from that particular player, double-teams, triple-teams, etc. I would also factor in harder factors to "quantify", but which could be seen on tape, such as forcing a QB to pull down his intended pass as he looks for another target, the "hurries", the "knockdowns", etc.

Brock, the "sack" stat wasn't invented and tracked until 1982. There are many great pass rushers who have no recorded "sacks", though some have tried to estimate these numbers.

The reason someone asked about "film" was to see what your response would be. And you answered "The film" followed by EVERY OTHER WORD OF YOUR RESPONSE being related to an analysis of statistics.

By the way, I am not claiming that I am some sort of expert either, but only that there is no substitute for seeing how a player plays LIVE and in person, how his opponent reacts to that player, and how much of an overall impact that player has even when he is one of the best on the field and his opponent is trying to neutralize him. With all due respect, sir, I simply doubt that you have seen any SoFla high school games live, and while you may have seen some highlight clips, you revert back to talking about statistics when questioned.

You are entitled to an opinion. But your opinion is that of a guy watching clips and reading stats lines from a comfy chair in Georgia. I trust our coaches and the evaluations they make with their own eyes and minds. I honestly do not believe we need some dude in Georgia constantly posting about how we should recruit some particular guy because his stats are "very impressive" (your words, not mine). We have one of the best defensive line coaches in the business, with access to every inch of video available for Chatman, and who has seen Chatman play live multiple times.

And then we have you and your statistical analysis.

It's one thing to "chat" on a website. It's another thing to post thousands of times about how we should be offering kids we have not offered.

Where is this go to live games bullsh*t coming from? LOL, I know what the fvck I'm talking about now gtfoh. Have you even played football before? You still bringing up kool , wtf you talking about? He hasn't offered him yet, just like how Harley didn't have an offer from dugans at this time last year. Sh*t changes, just let it play out. If he keeps performing like he's capable of doing he can get one down the line.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

The film, him constantly putting up big numbers every year since he has been starting as an underclassmen playing 5A ball in Florida even when Brian burns was there. 24 sacks as a junior isn't some small feat period... jon Garvin who had better numbers than I've ever seen a highshchool dlineman have with 98 tackles 58tfl 28 sacks. Chatfield had only 4 less sacks which is very impressive

So brock's answer, as expected, was the reported sacks.

We are talking about best pass rushers no? What other statistic do you normally measure a "pass rusher" effectiveness by...

Well, let's see...if you actually go to games, see live performances, evaluate on all factors...you might discover things that go beyond stats. Here's how football works: often times, the best defender might be subject to double or triple teams, or other schemes meant to limit effectiveness. Particularly when skill levels are disparate. I'm not saying that production isn't important, but to try to compare two different players based on one type of stat is silly.

You don't know the story on how the stats were amassed. Maybe a guy had a bunch of sacks against a lesser team. Maybe another guy had great stats in spite of triple teams. That's why UM's coaches have 6-figure salaries and you are living in mom's basement.

Normally, I would measure a "pass rusher" effectiveness by how disruptive he is, which INCLUDES whether an opposing team has to game-plan by running plays away from that particular player, double-teams, triple-teams, etc. I would also factor in harder factors to "quantify", but which could be seen on tape, such as forcing a QB to pull down his intended pass as he looks for another target, the "hurries", the "knockdowns", etc.

Brock, the "sack" stat wasn't invented and tracked until 1982. There are many great pass rushers who have no recorded "sacks", though some have tried to estimate these numbers.

The reason someone asked about "film" was to see what your response would be. And you answered "The film" followed by EVERY OTHER WORD OF YOUR RESPONSE being related to an analysis of statistics.

By the way, I am not claiming that I am some sort of expert either, but only that there is no substitute for seeing how a player plays LIVE and in person, how his opponent reacts to that player, and how much of an overall impact that player has even when he is one of the best on the field and his opponent is trying to neutralize him. With all due respect, sir, I simply doubt that you have seen any SoFla high school games live, and while you may have seen some highlight clips, you revert back to talking about statistics when questioned.

You are entitled to an opinion. But your opinion is that of a guy watching clips and reading stats lines from a comfy chair in Georgia. I trust our coaches and the evaluations they make with their own eyes and minds. I honestly do not believe we need some dude in Georgia constantly posting about how we should recruit some particular guy because his stats are "very impressive" (your words, not mine). We have one of the best defensive line coaches in the business, with access to every inch of video available for Chatman, and who has seen Chatman play live multiple times.

And then we have you and your statistical analysis.

It's one thing to "chat" on a website. It's another thing to post thousands of times about how we should be offering kids we have not offered.

Where is this go to live games bullsh*t coming from? LOL, I know what the fvck I'm talking about now gtfoh. Have you even played football before? You still bringing up kool , wtf you talking about? He hasn't offered him yet, just like how Harley didn't have an offer from dugans at this time last year. Sh*t changes, just let it play out. If he keeps performing like he's capable of doing he can get one down the line.

There you go, with your fake-arsse wigger routine.

Where is the "go to live games BULLSH!TE" coming from? Are you kidding? If UM's coaches ever start to rely on video highlight clips instead of the real thing, we should just fire them all. Actually, that has happened before (ask some of Coker's coaches how it turned out).

"I know what the fvck I'm talking about now"? No you don't. You actually, literally, factually DO NOT know what the fvck you are talking about. You can spout statistics, sure, but you know nothing, Jon Snow.

Have I even played football before? Yes.

"You still bringing up Kool?" Was I supposed to cite another position coach when talking about DL recruits?

Don't even try to bring up Mike Harley, that just shows how little you know. We weren't recruiting Harley because we were going after OTHER PLAYERS. "****e changes"? That's all you've got to say? Yes, when we struck out with everyone else, we miraculously pivoted and still found Harley and Thomas available and willing to listen to our sweaty begging. I give the coaches full points for being successful, but 5 minutes before we got Harley to listen, we were desperate for the Pouncey nephew from Winter Park. Don't rewrite history now and act as if Harley earned his offer by some amazing change in his performance, he was a 4-star that we didn't want until we wanted him. Which was after everyone said "no" to us.

This isn't a "down the line" issue. He has been evaluated. He MIGHT get an offer later if we strike out on other targets, but the coaches have devoted ample time and attention and have not yet offered.

Instead, all you offer is a recitation of his stats, and a desperate ploy for a Chatman offer to secure OTHER recruits.

I have nothing against Chatman, but I'm not letting an internet wigger-nerd from Georgia convince me that his evaluation of highlight clips is a superior basis on which to offer a prospect than six-figure defensive coaches who actually have a track record of performance and accomplishment.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Here's a test for you, brock.

Should we go after WR Tyquan Thornton hard? Try to get him to flip from UF?

Why?

Rivals only has him as a 3-star. Rivals has access to every video clip you've watched, and yet that's where they rank him.

So why do we take him over "higher-ranked" 4-star WRs like Schwartz?

Could it be...that our coaches see things in how he plays live that are separate and distinct from watching a highlight reel?

Seriously, think about the things that you say. I don't care if you played HS football. I don't care if you "know what you are talking about". Why should anyone waste there time yapping about taking Schwartz over Thornton when the coaches have clearly made their own evaluations?

That's all.

 

[brock]

So brock's answer, as expected, was the reported sacks.

We are talking about best pass rushers no? What other statistic do you normally measure a "pass rusher" effectiveness by...

Well, let's see...if you actually go to games, see live performances, evaluate on all factors...you might discover things that go beyond stats. Here's how football works: often times, the best defender might be subject to double or triple teams, or other schemes meant to limit effectiveness. Particularly when skill levels are disparate. I'm not saying that production isn't important, but to try to compare two different players based on one type of stat is silly.

You don't know the story on how the stats were amassed. Maybe a guy had a bunch of sacks against a lesser team. Maybe another guy had great stats in spite of triple teams. That's why UM's coaches have 6-figure salaries and you are living in mom's basement.

Normally, I would measure a "pass rusher" effectiveness by how disruptive he is, which INCLUDES whether an opposing team has to game-plan by running plays away from that particular player, double-teams, triple-teams, etc. I would also factor in harder factors to "quantify", but which could be seen on tape, such as forcing a QB to pull down his intended pass as he looks for another target, the "hurries", the "knockdowns", etc.

Brock, the "sack" stat wasn't invented and tracked until 1982. There are many great pass rushers who have no recorded "sacks", though some have tried to estimate these numbers.

The reason someone asked about "film" was to see what your response would be. And you answered "The film" followed by EVERY OTHER WORD OF YOUR RESPONSE being related to an analysis of statistics.

By the way, I am not claiming that I am some sort of expert either, but only that there is no substitute for seeing how a player plays LIVE and in person, how his opponent reacts to that player, and how much of an overall impact that player has even when he is one of the best on the field and his opponent is trying to neutralize him. With all due respect, sir, I simply doubt that you have seen any SoFla high school games live, and while you may have seen some highlight clips, you revert back to talking about statistics when questioned.

You are entitled to an opinion. But your opinion is that of a guy watching clips and reading stats lines from a comfy chair in Georgia. I trust our coaches and the evaluations they make with their own eyes and minds. I honestly do not believe we need some dude in Georgia constantly posting about how we should recruit some particular guy because his stats are "very impressive" (your words, not mine). We have one of the best defensive line coaches in the business, with access to every inch of video available for Chatman, and who has seen Chatman play live multiple times.

And then we have you and your statistical analysis.

It's one thing to "chat" on a website. It's another thing to post thousands of times about how we should be offering kids we have not offered.

Where is this go to live games bullsh*t coming from? LOL, I know what the fvck I'm talking about now gtfoh. Have you even played football before? You still bringing up kool , wtf you talking about? He hasn't offered him yet, just like how Harley didn't have an offer from dugans at this time last year. Sh*t changes, just let it play out. If he keeps performing like he's capable of doing he can get one down the line.

There you go, with your fake-arsse wigger routine.

Where is the "go to live games BULLSH!TE" coming from? Are you kidding? If UM's coaches ever start to rely on video highlight clips instead of the real thing, we should just fire them all. Actually, that has happened before (ask some of Coker's coaches how it turned out).

"I know what the fvck I'm talking about now"? No you don't. You actually, literally, factually DO NOT know what the fvck you are talking about. You can spout statistics, sure, but you know nothing, Jon Snow.

Have I even played football before? Yes.

"You still bringing up Kool?" Was I supposed to cite another position coach when talking about DL recruits?

Don't even try to bring up Mike Harley, that just shows how little you know. We weren't recruiting Harley because we were going after OTHER PLAYERS. "****e changes"? That's all you've got to say? Yes, when we struck out with everyone else, we miraculously pivoted and still found Harley and Thomas available and willing to listen to our sweaty begging. I give the coaches full points for being successful, but 5 minutes before we got Harley to listen, we were desperate for the Pouncey nephew from Winter Park. Don't rewrite history now and act as if Harley earned his offer by some amazing change in his performance, he was a 4-star that we didn't want until we wanted him. Which was after everyone said "no" to us.

This isn't a "down the line" issue. He has been evaluated. He MIGHT get an offer later if we strike out on other targets, but the coaches have devoted ample time and attention and have not yet offered.

Instead, all you offer is a recitation of his stats, and a desperate ploy for a Chatman offer to secure OTHER recruits.

I have nothing against Chatman, but I'm not letting an internet wigger-nerd from Georgia convince me that his evaluation of highlight clips is a superior basis on which to offer a prospect than six-figure defensive coaches who actually have a track record of performance and accomplishment.

Whigger? I'm African american you dumb mother fvcker. You don't know me so watch your mouth pvssy. I said we should offer him doesn't mean we will. Now come correct the next time .

 

[gogeta4]

I know the back story and how miserably his camp season went, but it is really hard for me to ignore his tape. He fits the idea of what coach Rumph said, 4.4 speed isn't anything if it doesn't translate. Though Kool mentioned he has a minimum number in mind to consider ends. I'm torn on this kid. Does he show out again this season and get an offer? Or does his on field play have a Nesta sized asterisk? What do y'all think?

How is getting invited to the opening a miserable camp season lol?

guess cuz pete said he didnt look good in afew reps..they just ran with it...Dude got offered by OSU during camp season...and was actually solid at the opening..i dont get the bad camp season talk

 

[gogeta4]

a tweener? lol, he's not playing lber or any hybrid. stop it.

its what he has been doing for the most part most of "camp season"...and what he was working on in the off season at the Cris Chambers fitness place..so there is possibility there in my opinion depending on the scheme.

 

[TallyCane]

I trust kool but I think we are letting a good player get away.

 

[simplycanes]

I see we're retaking the ACT. Another Chatfield Thread.

The kid is a great HS player, I don't think anyone is questioning that. The question is will he be a great college player?

If you scrub his tape down to his performances against legit P5 OTs and compare that to what Garvin and Jackson demonstrated, the questions are much more clear.

He wins some battles, no doubt. He's tough, gritty and fast but the outcomes are entirely based on whether or not his speed rush beats the Ts first move. Now, the other guys, they showed a lot more ability to get hands off them. They showed speed and power. Even Trent Harris showed more than Chatfield here. This is where he ran into trouble at camps. The more elite competition has gotten the better of him too much and he had little recovery. He was out of the play.

Can he get to the QB? Sure. Can he disrupt a play? Yeah. Can he set and hold an edge at the next level? Eh. I'm not sure. Obviously, the UM coaches aren't either.

And please stop moving around his position. If he was a better LB, perhaps he'd be playing, oh wait, LB! Yeah, I know some make the transition, most don't though. I can Google too.

I've even seen some of you suggest we blow him up Al Gluten style to 300 lb and move him inside. Another great idea, let's fatten up and slowdown his most potent attribute: Edge Speed.

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