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Bishop Gorman Star Tight End Elija Lofton Commits to Miami Hurricanes

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DMoney said:
They just did it. We have a Top 5 OL, currently. And they built top OLs consistently at Oregon. The track record at OL is extensive and it has already translated to Miami. That includes recruiting and Portal additions.

You say that Oregon is "wide open" compared to our Dawson spread attack. What makes it wide open compared to ours? Have you done any analysis?

I'll admit I haven't. I'm focused on Miami. But since your post focuses on TEs on the field, here's Oregon's past three games compared to Miami's past three games with TVD:

Oregon- 208 plays, 307 tight end snaps
Miami- 220 plays, 205 tight end snaps
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Oregon 2023 TE receiving: 40 receptions, 283 yards, 2 TDs
Miami 2023 TE receiving: 9 receptions, 98 yards, 1 TD

Terrance Ferguson was a top 10 TE in high school, just like Arroyo and Williams and Skinner were. Difference is Oregon knows how to properly utilize them.
 
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DMoney said:
They just did it. We have a Top 5 OL, currently. And they built top OLs consistently at Oregon. The track record at OL is extensive and it has already translated to Miami. That includes recruiting and Portal additions.

You say that Oregon is "wide open" compared to our Dawson spread attack. What makes it wide open compared to ours? Have you done any analysis?

I'll admit I haven't. I'm focused on Miami. But since your post focuses on TEs on the field, here's Oregon's past three games compared to Miami's past three games with TVD:

Oregon- 208 plays, 307 tight end snaps
Miami- 220 plays, 205 tight end snaps
Click to expand...

1. even those top OLs he built got their *** handed to them against a lot of physical teams. Largely thanks to the bunching the box and methodical style of play. You can’t bully eveybody.

2. he didn’t do anything with them. The 16th ranked offense with Justin Herbert is his crowning offensive achievement. An OL is a means to an end. The end is scoring a **** ton of points relative to what an average offense would do to that defense. His style of play doesn’t do that.
 
WeBallinBoyz said:
Oregon TE receiving: 40 receptions, 283 yards, 2 TDs
Miami TE receiving: 9 receptions, 98 yards, 1 TD
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Is that supposed to be a lot?

Miami had 754 receiving yards and 5 TDs from tight ends last year in a prehistoric offense.

The argument shifts from "we need more 4 wides like Oregon" to "we should throw it a little more to our TEs." I guarantee you we would've hit that low bar of 283 receiving yards if our best receiving TE wasn't injured.

I'd like someone to define what offense they would like us to model ourselves after instead of parroting cliches like "wide open." I've always said Oklahoma with Riley and Bill Bedenbaugh. They had modern passing games and physical running games. And, relevant to this thread, they used players exactly like Elija Lofton:

 
DMoney said:
Is that supposed to be a lot?

Miami had 754 receiving yards and 5 TDs from tight ends last year in a prehistoric offense.

The argument shifts from "we need more 4 wides like Oregon" to "we should throw it a little more to our TEs." I guarantee you we would've hit that low bar of 283 receiving yards if our best receiving TE wasn't injured.

I'd like someone to define what offense they would like us to model ourselves after instead of parroting cliches like "wide open." I've always said Oklahoma with Riley and Bill Bedenbaugh. They had modern passing games and physical running games. And, relevant to this thread, they used players exactly like Elija Lofton:

Click to expand...
You’re being too simplistic.

One OC is Jeff Lebby. The other is Shannon Cristobal. The idea of how Lofton can be used differs from what we’re seeing on the field.

And you can play the hypothetical game all you want, we have proven receiving options at TE that aren’t being used because they can’t block. Which goes back to the tuff and Phyzical approach being emphasized as we revert back to the 80’s and 90’s bro style. Even UGA is throwing it around more this year now that they have a true QB, but earlier in the year, Kirby/Mike Bobo were handicapping their offense similarly to how Mario/Shannon are currently doing.

If you’re going to run the ball 30+ times, at least give some different looks.
 
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DMoney said:
Is that supposed to be a lot?

Miami had 754 receiving yards and 5 TDs from tight ends last year in a prehistoric offense.

The argument shifts from "we need more 4 wides like Oregon" to "we should throw it a little more to our TEs." I guarantee you we would've hit that low bar of 283 receiving yards if our best receiving TE wasn't injured.

I'd like someone to define what offense they would like us to model ourselves after instead of parroting cliches like "wide open." I've always said Oklahoma with Riley and Bill Bedenbaugh. They had modern passing games and physical running games. And, relevant to this thread, they used players exactly like Elija Lofton:

Click to expand...

You’re making stuff up.
I said we need to spread it out like Oregon and run an offense similar to Oregon.

I think we need to use more 4 Wide this year, regardless of what Oregon uses, because our TE is a waste of space this year.

Things Oregon does:

Frequently spaces you out 4 wide. With a TE that is actually a receiving threat.

Doesn’t huddle.

Works in tempo.

Actually uses this space age concept called an RPO.

Actually designs plays for their RB in the passing game once they space defenses out, to let their RB take advantage of RBs in space.

Bo Nix had one of the worst average depth of throws in college football last year. And that has continued this year.

Yet the dude is a Heisman contender. Why? Spacing.
 
WeBallinBoyz said:
You’re being too simplistic.
Click to expand...
You guys are saying buzz words like "wide open" and "diverse running game" without doing any analysis. That's simplistic.

Here are the specifics in this thread: @mossmadness said that he was disappointed that we recruited a player like Lofton because it was indicative of a "box type of future," whatever that means. I pointed out that the best offenses in the world, including the ones that actually win championships, use that exact type of player.

The response was we should be "wide open" like Oregon. I pointed out that Oregon uses more TEs than we do. And then you make a lengthy rant about how we aren't recruiting as well as Georgia. OK. Oklahoma with Riley used that exact type of player. Should we be following that model?

What model do you guys want? Let's hear an example and you can explain why Lofton doesn't fit in that type of offense.
 
WeBallinBoyz said:
I’ll be even more straightforward: it’s completely alarming that the owner of his website thinks in this manner, because the sheep on here will just regurgitate that info. Others more knowledgeable than me pointed that out as well.

First, we are completely ignoring UGA has surrounded their team with five stars everywhere.

Kirby Smart’s recruiting classes

2017: 20 blue chips out of 25 kids
2018: 22 blue chips out of 26 kids
2019: 21 blue chips out of 24 kids
2020: 19 blue chips out of 25 kids
2021: 16 blue ships out of 20 kids
2022: 25 blue chips out of 33 kids
2023: 22 blue chips out of 26 kids
2024: 22 blue chips out of 27 kids

Mario Cristobal (I’ll ignore 2022)

2023: 16 blue chips out of 24 kids
2024: 10 blue chips out of 24 kids????

Kirby has multiple 5 stars at QB, we have Emory Williams and Judd. Kirby has multiple 5 stars in the secondary, we have slow 3-stars and 1 Damari Brown. Kirby has multiple five stars at LB, we have a twice-injured Isaiah Thomas. Kirby has multiple 5-star DL, we have Daylen Russell.

And while DMoney says this blueprint works for a national title contender, it works because they (UGA) recruit in the top 3 every year, not the top 12.

TCU in 2023, FSU, Oregon, Texas, OU, USC, UNC, Ole Miss, Tennessee, even Alabama all have or can present physical rushing attacks sure, but they’re diverse. We run the ball up the middle 30 times and expect to wilt down our opponents. They’re running the ball in a variety of ways to try and score each time, and even if that doesn’t happen, it’s to set up a vertical passing attack.

Oh, and UGA happens to feature one of the greatest TE’s we’ve seen in college football recently. Guess they don’t have to always block.

I don’t think I’ve quite seen goal-post moving for an incredulous amount of whiffs in this class as I’ve ever seen on this site. It really must be eval season, because I’m sure the data says that works. We’ve gone from April (wait til June), to June (wait til July), to July (beat our chests for 3 commits and say watch the finish), to August whiffs (wait for the season to start and all our current commits will get massive bumps once the stupid 247 guys come to their senses with how good our players are) to now (just keep winning and watch the finish).

Some of the goal-post moving is done by fake insiders wanting to re-affirm their “credentials”, but that’s a whole different discussion.

Also, SHANAHAN AND MCDANIEL??? Have you lost your mind??? You think Mario’s offense compares to the motion they use? The intricate play designs? George Kittle as a weapon, while McDaniel makes guys like Durham Smythe look good???

I thought you were better than that.
Click to expand...

UGA actually has a lower blue chip than BAMA and OSU. We also beat the 4th & 5th highest blue chip teams in ATM and Clemson. Miami is also sitting at 61% which has been clearly enough to win a natty in the past. It isn't just about the blue-chip ratio. Clemson did it by keeping their blue-chip starters from going to the NFL. TCU was similar last year. IF we aren't going to get to +70%, we are going to need to retain the NFL kids for a 4th year.
 
DMoney said:
You guys are saying buzz words like "wide open" and "diverse running game" without doing any analysis. That's simplistic.

Here are the specifics in this thread: @mossmadness said that he was disappointed that we recruited a player like Lofton because it was indicative of a "box type of future," whatever that means. I pointed out that the best offenses in the world, including the ones that actually win championships, use that exact type of player.

The response was we should be "wide open" like Oregon. I pointed out that Oregon uses more TEs than we do. And then you make a lengthy rant about how we aren't recruiting as well as Georgia. OK. Oklahoma with Riley used that exact type of player. Should we be following that model?

What model do you guys want? Let's hear an example and you can explain why Lofton doesn't fit in that type of offense.
Click to expand...
He fits in this type of offense. I guess I’m arguing something completely different in that this offense has a limited ceiling unless you’re recruiting on the level that UGA is.

And we’re not even CLOSE.
 
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DMoney said:
You guys are saying buzz words like "wide open" and "diverse running game" without doing any analysis. That's simplistic.

Here are the specifics in this thread: @mossmadness said that he was disappointed that we recruited a player like Lofton because it was indicative of a "box type of future," whatever that means. I pointed out that the best offenses in the world, including the ones that actually win championships, use that exact type of player.

The response was we should be "wide open" like Oregon. I pointed out that Oregon uses more TEs than we do. And then you make a lengthy rant about how we aren't recruiting as well as Georgia. OK. Oklahoma with Riley used that exact type of player. Should we be following that model?

What model do you guys want? Let's hear an example and you can explain why Lofton doesn't fit in that type of offense.
Click to expand...

The Oregon example wasn’t meant to be what we should do. Although I would prefer it a million times over this.

But to show how well a DEFENSIVE guru was able to fix Oregon’s offense compared to Cristobal just being not trying to do what Cristobal did offensively.

Do you Cristobal will ever have the 3rd ranked offense in the country?
 
WeBallinBoyz said:
He fits in this type of offense. I guess I’m arguing something completely different in that this offense has a limited ceiling unless you’re recruiting on the level that UGA is.

And we’re not even CLOSE.
Click to expand...
What type of offense? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to understand.

I've heard Tennessee. We're scoring more than Tennessee this year. If the season ended today, this would be our highest-scoring offense and our highest-ranked scoring offense (23rd) since Dorsey, despite a physical and mental breakdown from our QB1 midseason.

We obviously aren't perfect and can get better. But people are so fixated on the caveman cliche that they make strange posts about a multi-dimensional player like Lofton. Being physical is a good thing. Having tight ends that can block is a good thing. The teams that actually win use those types of players.
 
One more thing I want to add about failing to recruit on UGA’s level, are the amount of portal whiffs/non-impactful players we’ve seen in evals.

Lichtenstein
Sagapolu
Denis
Agude
Moultrie
Caleb Johnson
Frank Ladson
Terry Roberts
Thomas Gore
Ja’Dais Richard
Davonte Brown
Tyler Harrell

Even Jaden Davis gets abused, but we have no one else ready I guess. Our portal game needs a lot of work. It’s supposed to be used like FSU, USC and Ole Miss use it - to fast track your way to the top of the food chain.

We’ve got 2 OL, Kiko and Deen as our impactful additions. Need to be hitting at a higher clip.
 
mossmadness said:
1. even those top OLs he built got their *** handed to them against a lot of physical teams. Largely thanks to the bunching the box and methodical style of play. You can’t bully eveybody.

2. he didn’t do anything with them. The 16th ranked offense with Justin Herbert is his crowning offensive achievement. An OL is a means to an end. The end is scoring a **** ton of points relative to what an average offense would do to that defense. His style of play doesn’t do that.
Click to expand...
They won a Rose Bowl and finished Top 5 in the nation, bullying Wisconsin. I don't know what their "FP Plus" ranking was that year, but the team hit its ceiling.
 
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WeBallinBoyz said:
One more thing I want to add about failing to recruit on UGA’s level, are the amount of portal whiffs/non-impactful players we’ve seen in evals.

Lichtenstein
Sagapolu
Denis
Agude
Moultrie
Caleb Johnson
Frank Ladson
Terry Roberts
Thomas Gore
Ja’Dais Richard
Davonte Brown
Tyler Harrell

Even Jaden Davis gets abused, but we have no one else ready I guess. Our portal game needs a lot of work. It’s supposed to be used like FSU, USC and Ole Miss use it - to fast track your way to the top of the food chain.

We’ve got 2 OL, Kiko and Deen as our impactful additions. Need to be hitting at a higher clip.
Click to expand...
Missing: Porter (starter), D Jackson(starter), Mesidor(starter), Parrish(starter), Cloyd, Ajay Allen, and Old Man Cam(starter) from the impactful additions.

I would remove Richard and Brown from the whiff list. Both are young with the upside to still get PT.
 
90scane said:
Missing: Porter (starter), D Jackson(starter), Mesidor(starter), Parrish(starter), Cloyd, Ajay Allen, and Old Man Cam(starter) from the impactful additions.

I would remove Richard and Brown from the whiff list. Both are young with the upside to still get PT.
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Davonte Brown is a 4th-year Junior and unplayable. You’re mixing him up with his brother.

Mesidor hasn’t been impactful, he’s been hurt too much. Potential is there, sure. Cam lol.

The rest are impactful but to a degree, and that degree isn’t good enough should we still have aspirations of being a top 15-20 team in 2023.

Even if you want to count all of them, it’s not an acceptable ratio of hits/misses.
 
Brown still has at least one more year and if he stops getting handsy, he should be ok.

Mesidor played in 11 games last year with 7 sacks. Just because he has been hurt doesn't mean those 14 games over two years don't count.
 
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90scane said:
Brown still has at least one more year and if he stops getting handsy, he should be ok.

Mesidor played in 11 games last year with 7 sacks. Just because he has been hurt doesn't mean those 14 games over two years don't count.
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3.5 of those sacks came against a 3-8 Virginia Tech team.

He had 2 sacks and a FF against Clemson, good game out of him. Those were the only two sacks he recorded in his final five games in 2022. Obviously this year he played in 1.5 games before getting hurt.

I just don’t count that as consistently impactful, but we all have our own definitions.
 
WeBallinBoyz said:
3.5 of those sacks came against a 3-8 Virginia Tech team.

He had 2 sacks and a FF against Clemson, good game out of him. Those were the only two sacks he recorded in his final five games in 2022. Obviously this year he played in 1.5 games before getting hurt.

I just don’t count that as consistently impactful, but we all have our own definitions.
Click to expand...
Now we're moving goalposts but you do your thing
 
WeBallinBoyz said:
You’re being too simplistic.

One OC is Jeff Lebby. The other is Shannon Cristobal. The idea of how Lofton can be used differs from what we’re seeing on the field.

And you can play the hypothetical game all you want, we have proven receiving options at TE that aren’t being used because they can’t block. Which goes back to the tuff and Phyzical approach being emphasized as we revert back to the 80’s and 90’s bro style. Even UGA is throwing it around more this year now that they have a true QB, but earlier in the year, Kirby/Mike Bobo were handicapping their offense similarly to how Mario/Shannon are currently doing.

If you’re going to run the ball 30+ times, at least give some different looks.
Click to expand...
Arroyo: 10 catches, 1 td, 152 yards
Skinner: 10 catches, 1td, 138 yards

That is the entirety of their contributions as receiving options. Proven. Other people are being too simplistic and playing the hypothetical game but you call that **** proven.
 
DMoney said:
They won a Rose Bowl and finished Top 5 in the nation, bullying Wisconsin. I don't know what their "FP Plus" ranking was that year, but the team hit its ceiling.
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And didn’t go to the playoffs in a horrible PAC12 because they couldn’t score more than 21 points against Auburn.

Here’s all you need to know about Cristobal’s offenses. In 2019, the season everybody is pointing to, with an absolute elite STUD at QB:

Auburn: -12.5
Stanford: -1.1
Cal: -9.6
Oregon State: -5.1
Wisconsin: -10.1

That’s your offensive value generated score. FIVE games Cristobal’s offenses generated a negative value that season with Justin f*cking Herbert at QB. FIVE.

They only crossed a value generated score over 20 ONE TIME the entire season.

Just for context:

2023 Oregon has already done that 4 times. They have no negative offensive value games on the season so far.

They had two all of last year, against national title UGA and PAC12 champion Utah.
 
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