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Bags aren't the problem

Tetragrammaton Cane said:
It’s not that Miami gets the Haselwood, Bogle and Rique’s, it’s that Miami used to get their “shadow” selves: the athletes a hair lesser than them. Right now the higher 4* and 5* aren’t serious about Miami … and Miami is missing on their “shadow” selves as well. So, no, I don’t think Miami gets Rique at 11-2. Bogle is like Campbell, he always believed he was too good for Miami; he only comes if Bama gets their primary (Oregon). Haselwood? I think he really liked Miami, but … he was looking for an out in his negotiations and 7-6 handed it to him.
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Bogle is like Campbell, he always believed he was too good for Miami; This is 100% spot on. Thank you for finally saying it.
 
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DMoney said:
Manny is not a guy who believes we can just line up and beat people with talent. That alone is an improvement.
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He is my age, he knows the deal, he has lived it. I lived it from afar but we are in that prime age range where it is in our soul. I am glad he does not think we can win on talent alone, we never had the most talent. Great Manny, scheme it but also build it mentally not with the mental midgets who are afraid of adversity. Find the magic where you knew the kids would leave an arm on the field to win a game for their teammates. Not for me, the fan, their teammates. That’s what made me love this whole aura.
 
DMoney said:
Bags are real. I've spoken to people on both sides of the transaction. Tyrique Stevenson and others are getting paid. The SEC is cheating and barely hiding it.

But that's not Miami's problem. For the past decade, we've recruited at a Top 15 level. We've produced NFL players at a Top 5 level. And we've played at a Top 40 level.

Let's get some coaches, man. I'm tired of talking about hiring "ace recruiters" to "lock down" South Florida and give us an overwhelming talent edge. I've been guilty of it myself. But it's a waste of time.

Do we need players like Tyrique Stevenson and Jerry Jeudy to compete for championships? Yes. We aren't getting them and we won't be in the title discussion until we do. But how about stringing together two 10-win seasons? Is that too much to ask? How about producing an offense that isn't the second-worst in Power 5?

These kids are getting smarter. Manny Diaz compared it to Kevin Durant going to the Warriors. The elite players travel the country in 7on7s and national camps. Social media has improved the flow of information. Elite recruits know what teams are winning and getting the good players.

Last year, we had our first ten-win season in fifteen years. FIFTEEN YEARS. There are fathers and mothers who had never seen the Canes win double digits. Not coincidentally, we had a Top 10 class. Let's get the most out of guys like Mark Pope and Lorenzo Lingard. That will help our recruiting more than any bag.

Miami is like the dude who goes to the club looking like a scrub, and then complains that the models only hang out with the rich dudes. It may be true, but it has no impact on your situation. Let's get our house in order. We aren't losing to Virginia because Jerry Jeudy got paid.
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Spot on!!!
 
The Franchise said:
Bags arent the only problem, but they are a problem.

We’re garbage and the bag schools are paying big. That’s a recipe for disaster. We’re basically left with the guys who love this area and aren’t being paid by bag schools. The area is so rich that we should still be able to win the Coastal with those guys with good modern coaching.

But we are likely done as a national program as long as bag schools can cheat so blatantly. If we start winning 10 and the Coastal regularly we’ll get back in business with the 2nd tier guys that the bag schools aren’t paying.
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This is a good summary and the point of D$'s original post. It's correct imo.

No, beating Alabama/Clemson and competing for NC's isn't on our horizon right now. Sucks to say it, but it's true.

The next Campbell's, Surtain's, Stevenson's, Bogle's, etc. aren't signing with UM either. Sucks to say that as well. But it's also true. The programs those kids are signing with, (a) pay them, and (b) win almost all their games and compete for NC's. That's a more attractive package than UM can offer right now.

That's the reality of the situation. And it's not going to be changing in the immediate near term.

Where does that leave us? As argued by D$ and Franchise above, we're still sitting in one of the most, if not THE most fertile recruiting areas in the US. SoFl is fertile grounds for the elite kids; e.g. the Bosa's, Jeudy's, Ridley's, Patrick Peterson's, etc., most of whom don't come to UM. SoFl is also home to the largest pool of really good players who exist at a strata below the elite, front running and bag-receiving kids. And it's this latter cohort of kids who should be forming the nucleus of our recruiting class each year, with some out of area kids sprinkled in, grad transfers (with whom we should be a very attractive option) and the handful of local elite kids who do want to sign with UM (the Silvera's, Richard's, Chad Thomas', etc.) notwithstanding the other stuff. If we do that, we're sitting with the 2nd/3rd best talent in the ACC just as has been the case since we joined the conference.

Since UM joined the ACC in 2004, a couple things have been true. One, the ACC regularly places 3-4 teams in the final top-20 ranking. Two, every single ACC team with three losses or fewer has always finished the year ranked in the top-20, and most years even 4 loss ACC teams finished with a top-20 ranking. Yet UM has seldom been among those ACC teams that finished the season ranked in the top-20.

Here's UM's ACC recruiting class rankings since joining the ACC:

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As per the above UM has obviously recruited well enough and has been talented enough to finish each year as one of the 3-4 ACC teams ranked in the top-20. Yet a top-20 finish has been a rare occurrence for UM. This is the primary disconnect that has to be fixed; i.e. the disconnect between talent (even after losing the most elite SoFl recruits) and performance. No, we might not have the talent to finish in the top 1-10. But we absolutely have had the talent to finish somewhere in the top 10-20 each and every year by historical ACC final rankings metrics. The bar to finish ranked top-5/10 is quite high. The bar to finish in the top 10-20 isn't all that high. We have had the talent and should without question finish in the top 10-20 (or at least top 15-20) each and every year. So why hasn't that been the case?

The obvious answer is that we've had coaching that's been inferior to our talent. This is the only possible answer unless our recruiting rankings have been perennially over-valued, which by NFL draft metrics doesn't seem to have been the case.

So the bottom line for me is this. Sure, I'd love to see us signing the elite kids out of SoFl. But more importantly for right now, I'd like to see us with a coaching staff that is as good as the talent that they coach. On both sides of the ball. And at the same time.

This year's recruiting class looks like it's going to be very sub-par and the equivalent to 2011's class. But that's an aberration. Even with losing the Campbell, Surtain, Bogle, Stevenson type kids, we should be able to recruit the 2nd/3rd best classes in the ACC each year.

We seem to have a defensive coaching staff that's competent enough to coach our 2nd/3rd best ACC defensive talent to 2nd/3rd best defense results in the ACC each year since 2016. So what's missing is a coaching staff on the offensive side of the ball to coach our 2nd/3rd best offensive recruits to achieve 2nd/3rd best offensive results in the ACC. That would seem to be an attainable goal. This year, that would have prevented us from dropping games against UVA, BC, Duke and GT. In those losses we averaged 15 points per game. Is there anyone reading who doesn't think we have a talent advantage on offense sufficient to have put up more than 15 ppg against those squads. No we don't have Alabama, UGA, OSU, Clemson type talent. But scoring 15 ppg against UVA, BC, Duke and GT had zero to do with a talent deficiency.

UGA, Alabama, OSU bags and superior on-field results won't prevent us from hiring a staff competent enough to coach our 2nd/3rd best ACC talent to 2nd/3rd best ACC results. And even with the loss of the Campbell, Surtain, Bogle, Stevenson type kids to UGA, Alabama, OSU, we should still finish with the 2nd/3rd best ACC talent.

Sure it's great to get the best high school football talent in the US, particularly when so many live within 50 miles of campus. But more than a talent upgrade, right now we need a coaching upgrade especially on offensive.

If we're able to get to the point where we finish each year in the top 10-20, that's something to then build on. From there, we can start attracting even better talent, and then start legitimately competing for top-10 finishes...and so on. It starts, though, with getting offensive coaching that's on par with the level of offensive talent that we can definitely still recruit, even after accounting for the loss of the most elite SoFl kids to other teams.

I'd love for this to be a quick turnaround. But i don't think that's the case. I think there should be a quick improvement to a perennial top-20 finish with a competent staff on both sides of the ball. And then take the next step from there...

The bad news as I look at things, is that this won't be quick turnaround to start competing at a top-5 level. The good news is that I still absolutely believe that a path exists for us to get there. To start with, a highly competent OC is a must. Neither Bogle nor Stevenson begins to compare in importance, and that's outside our control for now in any event. Hiring an innovative highly competent OC is absolutely within our control.
 
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Dwinstitles said:
But this is what Im saying, if we want to beat uva and UNC I get it. But when u recruit the level we recruit at those games are risky there not guaranteed locks because the talent is closer cause we r looking for gems. That 3 star sfla **** throw that out the window because proof is u can lose if u have a whole under rated class. Those games become a toss up at times because of the intake at recruiting and ****** coaching which pertains to bumb *** recruiting.
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@The Franchise pointed it out around the time Diaz was hired. Our offense is the most boring in the nation. That has produced lackluster results on the field and it permeates into recruiting. People don't realize how much Richt's approach damaged the program, let alone the 2019 class. At least Richt ripped the band-aid off and recognized that he just didn't have it anymore. Once we have a competent staff (which is TBD with Diaz) and we show it on the field, the results in recruiting will start to permeate.
 
DMoney said:
I think they believe in Manny. For months, people inside have been telling me that Manny should be the coach. I’m talking about a diverse group of coaches, staff and players.

They believe he is smart and creative enough to get it done. Let’s see what happens.
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ive heard similar things about manny. they think its the fisher bowden situation
 
All you need is to be competitive, be a constantly ranked team winning 10 games a year and people will stay home. But when you're averaging 7-8 wins the last two decades it's hard. It's been 17 years since 2001, kids don't know anymore. Just win and they will come.
 
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I'm confused reading the replies to the OP. @DMoney never said the "bags" are THE PROBLEM. He only said they are real. Which is true. But he also said the bigger problem is getting better coaching across the board which is absolutely necessary even if you have the number one class in the nation.
Still, people pick pieces of his post to argue, just to argue I guess.
 
Southcane said:
Good coaching alone will get you noticed and will put you in the national stage. Look at UCF
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UCF plays in a bush league and you don't have to drop bags to get most of the players they recruit. They might drop small bags too. You want players Bama and UGA is dropping bags on you better come with some stacks.
 
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jmccomber5 said:
We haven’t embraced who we are as a fan base. I’m really not trying to be a mope but we are not playing the same game as these other schools. We are a middle of the road ACC team - much more like NCState or Pitt than Clemson or Bama. Sure we can win our division and even beat a contender once in a while but we are not in the same conversation as a top tier program.
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Growing up in Raleigh and around State fans my entire life I could not agree more. Every year is their year and they’re constantly let down. I have finally come to the realization that Miami is the NC State of Florida. It’s driving me insane
 
We would be talking about ole miss in the playoffs if it wasn’t for a ****ed off step dad and some young strange. So let’s not act like winning is this huge game changer. Don’t see Wisconsin riding the top 10 board in recruiting. WASU and leech despite his “genius” isn’t pulling 5 stars out of SoCal or sofla. Sec is bagville. FSU pulled a top 15 class with a kn abortion of a season and a dork as a head coach.
 
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Before Howard, the only thing keeping us from NC was coaching. We are there again. Win last year’s Bowl game and many we land one AH 4. Beat Pitt, show up for Clemson too, maybe we get 2 more.
 
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Andrew said:
UGA must suck at recruiter instate receivers, missed out on Jadon Haselwood, Demaryius Thomas, and Calvin Johnson.
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They did. Richt was the **** coach and they run a funky dink offense this year that Hazelwood had no interest in.
Look Andrew ..uga is breaking bread..its known in s.fla..this Stevenson kid we were saying in the **** spring was uga.
Everything else was window dressing.

Lol @ Adam Anderson like that means anything. If you really understand recruiting and how it works you learn who are the kids that bags get thrown at.
 
The Franchise said:
I don’t care who said that, but it’s blind insanity to claim UbaGA doesn’t need bags to take a guy like Tyrique from us. Those guys are bright, but that theory is retarded.

Anyone who thinks Tyrique goes to UbaGA if the playing field was even is naive, heels dug in, or just dopey. He wouldn’t have made 20 trips to Athens over the summer like a rich socialite with bad taste in vacation spots if someone wasn’t handling all that travel.

They get their hooks in when these economically disadvantaged kids somehow find the means to take a dozen 1600 mile round trips in a few months.
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Let andrew tell it though. Them f×cos up there are paying kids to come up there unoficiially. This is known
 
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