Are we taking to many Commitments this early?

[Trafficante]

No offense but you sound ridiculous. You have no idea which kids we are recruiting we shouldn’t be. No idea which kids we aren’t recruiting who we should be. No idea what the reasoning is in either case. All you have is a child’s misunderstanding of the rating services and an emotional scar caused by prior bad corches that you are projecting onto manny.

He may get it right or not. But as I have been pointing out for 18 years around here, it comes down to EVALUATIONS. You have no reason to think manny will be bad at evals just because Shannon was, any more than someone could have thought Coker would be good because Butch was.

+100000

That guy is actually trying to advance the false narrative that all 3* star players are the SAME. As if MIA, UNC, & DUKE all recruit and go after the SAME kids. They clearly do not. MIA lost to Wisconsin not because MIA had too many 3* star players. They lost to them because of POS COACHING, & talent EVALUATION/DEVELOPMENT. When you possess an elitist mindset, it is easy to adopt a worldview that is binary in nature. The world doesn't just exist in black & white though-there's also a ton of grey as well.

 

[Ethnicsands]

WTF is orangeman bad NPC? No one is saying they should be able to load up on 5 stars, however, we shouldn't have given up on the 4 stars and went straight to loading up on 3 stars. ********* first time in ages. People trusted Radio on his specials when he first got here. People trusted Fat AL. People were all over Richt with "florida 3 stars are better than 5 stars in other states". That was parroted all last season as straight fact as if Richt knew more than Saban, Meyer, and the other coaches with actual NCs and playoff appearances under their belt. Then his team of Florida kids got ran out of the stadium by a bunch of 3 stars from Wisconsin.

The 3 star narrative is *********. You can't win NCs recruiting like that.

I have said it many times. I like Manny. I think he is a good coach. However, if he wants to win NCs he is going to need to step up the recruiting. What are all the 3 star suckers going to say when Manny starts landing more 4 stars? " we need to go back to landing all the 3 star gems"? Or will their tune change?

Spoiler

Google Image Result for https://i.imgflip.com/2kmqeu.jpg

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Also check how many of them are bag schools and tell us how we should change our recruiting strategy. See you guys are the ones who want to run before you can even crawl. I’m not saying don’t recruit 4* or 5* kids, by all means please continue to do so. What I’m saying is there’s a difference between a realist and a dreamer. Let’s get moving in the right direction, um I don’t know, maybe the Coastal more than once, play in the ACCCG more than once, and then see if that helps us with recruiting. If it doesn’t then fine - change the strategy. Until that time, unless we’re carrying around bags of money....we’re going to land the kids we land right now

I am not saying that at all. There are some porsters on here that think we are going to knock off Clemson with a bunch of 3 stars. I am just saying that is *********. That said having this many 3 stars is a little over the top. Even FSU isn't hoarding as many 3 stars as us.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

No offense but you sound ridiculous. You have no idea which kids we are recruiting we shouldn’t be. No idea which kids we aren’t recruiting who we should be. No idea what the reasoning is in either case. All you have is a child’s misunderstanding of the rating services and an emotional scar caused by prior bad corches that you are projecting onto manny.

He may get it right or not. But as I have been pointing out for 18 years around here, it comes down to EVALUATIONS. You have no reason to think manny will be bad at evals just because Shannon was, any more than someone could have thought Coker would be good because Butch was.

Not at all. I understand the rating system works. Even if Manny turns into the next Paul Chryst that isn't going to do schit, but have us winning the Coastal. You aren't making the playoffs by being the 3 star whisperer.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Not really. Was Ole Miss one of them?

No. I'm saying Clemson 2016 =/= Clemson 2020. You brought Manny into it - not me (Now you say "I was only responding to a poster saying our class is..."). Dabo can win with a bcr hovering right at 50% while averaging double digit non-bc every year - but Manny having 14 (8 months prior to signing day) is some sort of death knell. Ok...

There is nothing plain or simple about the "dabo fvcked up" hawttaek. How did dabo fvck up? Why? The only people that think Clemson will rue the day they were forced to grovel at the feet of 15 pitiful 3*s is you and (according to you) "Clemson fans."

No Ole miss was not one of them. They didn't even have a 50% BCR that year. The whole board last year was in meltdown mode around signing day because of all the 3 stars. Luckily for them Dabo turned it around and is now going to land pretty much no 3 stars. Dabos team last year was not hovering at 50%. It was far above and if Manny keeps recruiting like this we are going to be closer to 25% BCR than we are 50% BCR.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Not at all. I understand the rating system works. Even if Manny turns into the next Paul Chryst that isn't going to do schit, but have us winning the Coastal. You aren't making the playoffs by being the 3 star whisperer.

Cool, thanks 4 the analysis!

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Cool, thanks 4 the analysis!

Np. I'll be here all week.

 

[Ajcane8]

No Ole miss was not one of them. They didn't even have a 50% BCR that year. The whole board last year was in meltdown mode around signing day because of all the 3 stars. Luckily for them Dabo turned it around and is now going to land pretty much no 3 stars. Dabos team last year was not hovering at 50%. It was far above and if Manny keeps recruiting like this we are going to be closer to 25% BCR than we are 50% BCR.

Ok. Please name all 8. I'm curious. I know the rebs netted a top ~5 or so class that one year with Nkemdiche.

You seem to know a lot about the Clemson board and care a lot about their feelings - maybe just stay over there?

When did I say last years Clemson was hovering near 50%? I didn't. 2016 though...

If Manny keeps recruiting like this... (if auntie had balls she'd be uncle). Go check dabo's first couple classes. Loaded with lowly little 3*s. Maybe there's something to the whole "hit on your evals, build a foundation, find a qb, go kick ***" formula that they employed. It's better than wishing and hoping for the no fat chickz class that you seem to want - never mind the dozen or so years of abject mediocrity that crescendoed with the biggest 7-6 face palm we've ever seen.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Ok. Please name all 8. I'm curious. I know the rebs netted a top ~5 or so class that one year with Nkemdiche.

You seem to know a lot about the Clemson board and care a lot about their feelings - maybe just stay over there?

When did I say last years Clemson was hovering near 50%? I didn't. 2016 though...

If Manny keeps recruiting like this... (if auntie had balls she'd be uncle). Go check dabo's first couple classes. Loaded with lowly little 3*s. Maybe there's something to the whole "hit on your evals, build a foundation, find a qb, go kick ***" formula that they employed. It's better than wishing and hoping for the no fat chickz class that you seem to want - never mind the dozen or so years of abject mediocrity that crescendoed with the biggest 7-6 face palm we've ever seen.

It was the usual suspects. Bama, USC, FSU, LSU, UGA, Auburn, TAMU. Rebs did ok here and there because of the bags, but they didn't land top classes consistently.

I thought you were referring to last years. My bad.

Yes and Dabo was sucking on the field due to his trash classes. He won the ACC once with his team of 3 stars and that was because of FSUs coaching change and having a bad year.

 

[Trafficante]

I am not saying that at all. There are some porsters on here that think we are going to knock off Clemson with a bunch of 3 stars. I am just saying that is *********. That said having this many 3 stars is a little over the top. Even FSU isn't hoarding as many 3 stars as us.

It's ********* if you suck off the recruiting agencies 24/7. Like i'm saying you're literally letting them nut in your eye 24/7, because instead of actually watching the tape, you choose to put all of your faith into the recruiting rankings. You're not even willing to acknowledge that they are inherently biased, political, & possess a high degree of statistical variance. Attempting to isolate 1 variable, by only analyzing recruiting rankings on championship teams doesn't make you seem very intelligent. There are MANY variables & factors that influence & impact championship teams-having highly recruited players is only 1 of them. To understand why they win, you can't just isolate 1 variable, you have to perform a MULTIVARIATE analysis, and to my knowledge one has yet to still be performed on this matter. Also..whether you admit it or not, players from FLA are DIFFERENT. There's a reason why NFL rosters are composed of players from FLA at a higher % than players from other states. That is not a coincidence

 

[Ajcane8]

It was the usual suspects. Bama, USC, FSU, LSU, UGA, Auburn, TAMU. Rebs did ok here and there because of the bags, but they didn't land top classes consistently.

I thought you were referring to last years. My bad.

Yes and Dabo was sucking on the field due to his trash classes. He won the ACC once with his team of 3 stars and that was because of FSUs coaching change and having a bad year.

So, the team with the 9th most 5*s was the best - not sure how that helps your argument. Also, 5 of those 8 teams lost 4 or more games. Again, not exactly helping your “grab 5*s become elite” stance.

Best retort to the only meaningful part of my response is “my bad” - lol. Clown gonna clown, I guess.

So they had a default acc win with trash classes, which led to improved classes, which led to a title, which led to a dynasty. Here’s to hoping Manny’s first trash class does the same thing.

Quick question - you posed the “what will the 3* lovers say when Manny starts signing only blue chips?” My guess would be - “sweet.” What would you be forced to say if 3 or 4 guys get bumps and a couple get processed after their senior season (happens every year) and we finish with “just” 9/10 non bc’s? Is the class still “trash?”

 

[TheMatador]

That is an insane take. I can assure you no coach, from Saban on down, subscribes to that perspective. To the contrary, programs do their own evals. They don’t recruit based on rankings. You are confusing cart and horse, cause and effect, pretty badly. Rankings catch up with commitments, they don’t lead them.

And chicken and egg....you forgot to mention that one.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

So, the team with the 9th most 5*s was the best - not sure how that helps your argument. Also, 5 of those 8 teams lost 4 or more games. Again, not exactly helping your “grab 5*s become elite” stance.

Best retort to the only meaningful part of my response is “my bad” - lol. Clown gonna clown, I guess.

So they had a default acc win with trash classes, which led to improved classes, which led to a title, which led to a dynasty. Here’s to hoping Manny’s first trash class does the same thing.

Quick question - you posed the “what will the 3* lovers say when Manny starts signing only blue chips?” My guess would be - “sweet.” What would you be forced to say if 3 or 4 guys get bumps and a couple get processed after their senior season (happens every year) and we finish with “just” 9/10 non bc’s? Is the class still “trash?”

so 3 of the 8 finished 1st 2nd and 3rd in the AP rankings that year. 4 of the 8 finished top 10. 5 of the 8 finished top 15 and 6 of the 8 finished top 25. UGA had a first time HC in Kirby that year and we all know what happened the following year.

Tell me about how those teams loaded with 3 stars faired that season? No one is saying the team with the most 5 stars will finish first, team with 2nd most will finish second, etc. etc. However, the team that recruits like we are right now will never win an NC. Never. The teams loaded with 5 stars. Always do well unless they have complete bums as their HC.

I said my bad because I misread your argument. Which was a stupid argument regardless. You are the one being a clown because you want to suck off the coach just for being the coach. Instead of for getting results.

No, I would be very happy that we actually finished with a halfway decent class instead of recruiting like we were UNC.

So you are saying these porsters are happy with 3 stars now and claim "tons of 3 stars make a good class", but they are also going to be happy when we no longer take the scrubs?

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

It's ********* if you suck off the recruiting agencies 24/7. Like i'm saying you're literally letting them nut in your eye 24/7, because instead of actually watching the tape, you choose to put all of your faith into the recruiting rankings. You're not even willing to acknowledge that they are inherently biased, political, & possess a high degree of statistical variance. Attempting to isolate 1 variable, by only analyzing recruiting rankings on championship teams doesn't make you seem very intelligent. There are MANY variables & factors that influence & impact championship teams-having highly recruited players is only 1 of them. To understand why they win, you can't just isolate 1 variable, you have to perform a MULTIVARIATE analysis, and to my knowledge one has yet to still be performed on this matter. Also..whether you admit it or not, players from FLA are DIFFERENT. There's a reason why NFL rosters are composed of players from FLA at a higher % than players from other states. That is not a coincidence

Why would I care about the bias when every single good team has high rated classes. Do you really think that is a coincidence? No one is saying all you have to do is recruit at a high level.

The best coaches that suck at recruiting end up like Chryst and Leach. Never even sniffing an NC. The coaches that recruit at high levels and can't coach like Kirby actaully make it to the playoffs. The guys who can coach and recruit at high levels are the ones that win NCs. Manny better step his recruiting game up or the best he can hope for is turning us into Whisky or WAZZOU.

 

[Ajcane8]

It's ********* if you suck off the recruiting agencies 24/7. Like i'm saying you're literally letting them nut in your eye 24/7, because instead of actually watching the tape, you choose to put all of your faith into the recruiting rankings. You're not even willing to acknowledge that they are inherently biased, political, & possess a high degree of statistical variance. Attempting to isolate 1 variable, and only analyzing recruiting rankings on championship teams doesn't make you seem very intelligent. There are MANY variables & factors that influence & impact championship teams-having highly recruited players is only 1 of those. To understand why they win, you can't just isolate only 1 variable, you have to perform a MULTIVARIATE analysis, and to my knowledge one has yet to be performed on this matter. Also..whether you admit it or not players from FLA are different compared to players from other states. There's a reason why NFL rosters are composed of players from FLA at a higher % than players from other states. That is not a coincidence

Live look at mr.247 composite and gatorhater

 

[Ajcane8]

so 3 of the 8 finished 1st 2nd and 3rd in the AP rankings that year. 4 of the 8 finished top 10. 5 of the 8 finished top 15 and 6 of the 8 finished top 25. UGA had a first time HC in Kirby that year and we all know what happened the following year.

Tell me about how those teams loaded with 3 stars faired that season? No one is saying the team with the most 5 stars will finish first, team with 2nd most will finish second, etc. etc. However, the team that recruits like we are right now will never win an NC. Never. The teams loaded with 5 stars. Always do well unless they have complete bums as their HC.

I said my bad because I misread your argument. Which was a stupid argument regardless. You are the one being a clown because you want to suck off the coach just for being the coach. Instead of for getting results.

No, I would be very happy that we actually finished with a halfway decent class instead of recruiting like we were UNC.

So you are saying these porsters are happy with 3 stars now and claim "tons of 3 stars make a good class", but they are also going to be happy when we no longer take the scrubs?

No. 2 of the 8 (these are your numbers, by the way) that had more 5*s than Clem finished top 3. Clem was one of those top 3.

I don't know. Washington fared 4th. Wisconsin 9th. Western Michigan 15th. But I thought the standard was playoffs and chips? 4 losses and a top 16 ap finish is an unmitigated failure on that scale. “Teams that recruit like we do will never win a chip...” ok. Prove it. Because a fact that you continually refuse to respond to is a team has already won a chip with about 52% bc and 5 total 5*s. That standard isn’t exactly out of our reach - seeing as how we could be right at those numbers next season with a couple nsd whales.

Wait - dabo isn't getting results? Or are you talking about Manny? In which case - who the fuch knows what his "results" will be 30 days before he's coached a single game and 8 months before NSD for his 1st class? Coming to the conclusion that Manny/Manny's first class is trash is a pretty stupid argument (unless you're in possession of a crystal ball, of course).

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

No. 2 of the 8 (these are your numbers, by the way) that had more 5*s than Clem finished top 3. Clem was one of those top 3.

I don't know. Washington fared 4th. Wisconsin 9th. Western Michigan 15th. But I thought the standard was playoffs and chips? 4 losses and a top 16 ap finish is an unmitigated failure on that scale. “Teams that recruit like we do will never win a chip...” ok. Prove it. Because a fact that you continually refuse to respond to is a team has already won a chip with about 52% bc and 5 total 5*s. That standard isn’t exactly out of our reach - seeing as how we could be right at those numbers next season with a couple nsd whales.

Wait - dabo isn't getting results? Or are you talking about Manny? In which case - who the fuch knows what his "results" will be 30 days before he's coached a single game and 8 months before NSD for his 1st class? Coming to the conclusion that Manny/Manny's first class is trash is a pretty stupid argument (unless you're in possession of a crystal ball, of course).

Of course the standard is chips, but only one team can win a chip. I can easily prove it. That standard is impossible to reach recruiting like this. Richt was on track to recruit like that. Manny has set us back with his recruiting.

He has failed time and time again recruiting every school he has been too. Coach Macho just confirmed their coaching is amateur hour.

 

[Ajcane8]

Of course the standard is chips, but only one team can win a chip. I can easily prove it. That standard is impossible to reach recruiting like this. Richt was on track to recruit like that. Manny has set us back with his recruiting.

He has failed time and time again recruiting every school he has been too. Coach Macho just confirmed their coaching is amateur hour.

OK - then why try and use the fact that 5 out of the 8 super teams you cited couldn't even win 9 games as some sort of support for your "chips or bust" hypothesis? That's stupid. You can prove, definitively, your utterly vacuous "a team that recruits like us will never win a championship" statement? By all means, please do.

"Manny has set us back with his recruiting" - sure, if the only metric you take into account is average 247 composite. Newsflash - you (and all your friends on the Clemson board) are the only person that does that. We've been through this before - and you have yet to offer proof that you are in possession of the crystal ball that tells you how terrible a recruiter Head Coach Manny/Head Coach Manny's staff will be. Head coach for 7 months, still 5 months til ESD, but you (and "upset because the Miami staff wouldn't trade him a reese's peanut butter cup for his apple slices in the lunchroom" Corch Morcho) have got the book on him. Good to know.

Run along now bozo. Take your big red shoes and go make some ballon animals for Willie right next to those bounce houses.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

OK - then why try and use the fact that 5 out of the 8 super teams you cited couldn't even win 9 games as some sort of support for your "chips or bust" hypothesis? That's stupid. You can prove, definitively, your utterly vacuous "a team that recruits like us will never win a championship" statement? By all means, please do.

"Manny has set us back with his recruiting" - sure, if the only metric you take into account is average 247 composite. Newsflash - you (and all your friends on the Clemson board) are the only person that does that. We've been through this before - and you have yet to offer proof that you are in possession of the crystal ball that tells you how terrible a recruiter Head Coach Manny/Head Coach Manny's staff will be. Head coach for 7 months, still 5 months til ESD, but you (and "upset because the Miami staff wouldn't trade him a reese's peanut butter cup for his apple slices in the lunchroom" Corch Morcho) have got the book on him. Good to know.

Run along now bozo. Take your big red shoes and go make some ballon animals for Willie right next to those bounce houses.

Because 75% of the teams being ranked in the top 25 and 37.5% of the teams being ranked in the top 3 is huge.

Wrong, every team that has good classes does that. The only people that don't do that are fans of teams like UNC and Duke and they say "well stars don't matter this year we will make a bowl game!!!". Fans of schools that actually compete for the playoffs actually care about recruiting.

Lets see, the guy was DC at Texas and landed 2 blue chips the entire time there. Literally one of the easiest schools to land blue chips and he recruits and lands 2 of them.

Then as a LB coach/DC in Miami he only landed a handful of LBs and his first 2 classes, so far, have been laughable.

You may be happy with mediocrity, but I am not.

 

[Ajcane8]

Because 75% of the teams being ranked in the top 25 and 37.5% of the teams being ranked in the top 3 is huge.

Wrong, every team that has good classes does that. The only people that don't do that are fans of teams like UNC and Duke and they say "well stars don't matter this year we will make a bowl game!!!". Fans of schools that actually compete for the playoffs actually care about recruiting.

Lets see, the guy was DC at Texas and landed 2 blue chips the entire time there. Literally one of the easiest schools to land blue chips and he recruits and lands 2 of them.

Then as a LB coach/DC in Miami he only landed a handful of LBs and his first 2 classes, so far, have been laughable.

You may be happy with mediocrity, but I am not.

That's just it - you are moving the goalposts. You can't claim both "chips or bust" and "well, at least they finished ranked" as if both support the same argument.

What you fail to comprehend is that there is a wide chasm separating people that "care about recruiting" and people that hold mr. 247's pocket.

Who is mediocre? I mean, I get it. Per Orignal247Lover, the verdict is in on Manny Diaz. But most people don't go barge into the kitchen at Peter Luger, take a bite out of a raw porterhouse, then complain that it's not as good as the one that was cooked to medium rare.