And so I guess it has begun...

Pennmed Canefan

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I don't save posts or threads but one comment I made during the offseason was that I expected a large cohort of people predicting 6 or so wins to turn on Golden when it happened. The reason is that there is no way for 6 wins to look good. Thus you get the, "I don't care about losing, it's the WAY we lost" and all that other discussion. Realistically, 6 win teams don't go places like KSU and win. They get handled, like we did. They get handled by FSU, handled by VT. They eke out wins against bad teams like BC. That's what 6 win teams look like. The only other 6 win style is a team that really could win 9-10 games but underachieves (see us in 2010). Similarly, the fans turn on the coach because it looks bad. That's not us. We're the true, not-good-enough 6 win team. We're 2007, 1997 Miami.

I guess this will go on. People said this team would "take lumps" and yesterday was a lump but some people are losing it. These guys will probably phase in some young guys and phase out older guys (Moore/Ivery/Bush/Kirby etc in, Gaines/Robinson/Smith/Cornelius/Rodgers/Thompkins types out). They're going to take some beatings anyway. They'll simplify the D and get some younger guys more work on O. If they improve through the year and the guys keep trying hard, that is a good omen. If we stay stagnant, bad.

Bottom line, this year was not going to look good unless we won a lot more games than people were predicting. I'm not somebody who has 100% faith in Golden (it'd be hard to 1 year in), but this was going to be a 3-4 year project and that is for a reason.
 
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I agree Penn, its going to take time... A lot of our fans place unrealistic expectations on this team for whatever reason... We see threads pop up talking about this backer is better than Spence, our qb play is way better than last year, oh and my favorite "Streeter, TB, and Miller will not be missed thread"... Haha it seemed like a lot of poseters allowed personal biases to influence them into not using logic... This team has a lot of growing to do and it will take time... Too be honest, Ithought our team was better than 6 wins last year and the reason why didnt get blowed out is because we should have beat those teams... Anyway its a new season and we must endure... Its a 4 year project and we must be patient...
 
I don't totally disagree, but the problems on defense are very disturbing. Yes, the talent is down, but even last year, when we had Fortson, Vernon, and Spence, we had trouble getting off the field. D'onofrio is a huge liability that may be impossible to overcome.
 
I agree with you Penn. But for all the talk about putting guys in the best place to make plays, or simplifying the defense, it seems that the defense can't get any more vanilla. I only saw 2 blitzes all day, and guys weren't shedding blocks AT ALL. Guys stayed engaged way too long allowing the older stronger line to dictate were the run gaps were. McGee almost looked as if he would find the fist player to lock up with, and watched outside runs go around him all day. Is that lack of talent or lack of coaching? Or a little of both (McGee)?

I fully expect a 2 year learning curve, but at the same time, I would have thought we were 1 yard better than we were last year vs K State. One punt? And it was a mercy punt with 13 secs to go.
 
I don't totally disagree, but the problems on defense are very disturbing. Yes, the talent is down, but even last year, when we had Fortson, Vernon, and Spence, we had trouble getting off the field. D'onofrio is a huge liability that may be impossible to overcome.

Im not a big fan of the scheme either but Forston played in 3 games and Vernon played in 6 and looked like a guy finishing out his contract before he could move on. I wouldn't say they were much help last year.
 
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Anyone who though Miami had anything more than a razor thin chance at K St. is a fool.
I said after last years game that gong to K St. was gonna be ugly, Kline is a gamer.
That aside, one of my biggest concerns is that once you're getting your a$$ handed to you in a game like yesterday, why not try something different defensively what do you have to lose.
Truth is it was one game, Miami is still 1-0 in conference, and all it takes is a couple' breaks.
I'll add that whoever agreed to start the season with two road games should be punched in the face.
 
Personally, I have zero problems with Golden, and think he is the right guy. However, I am not football guy, so perhaps other coaches need to be replaced.
 
i'm sure this is a patient fanbase. lol... 6 wins will equal a 50/50 fanbase loving AL while patiently waiting/wanting Al's head...
 
I don't save posts or threads but one comment I made during the offseason was that I expected a large cohort of people predicting 6 or so wins to turn on Golden when it happened. The reason is that there is no way for 6 wins to look good. Thus you get the, "I don't care about losing, it's the WAY we lost" and all that other discussion. Realistically, 6 win teams don't go places like KSU and win. They get handled, like we did. They get handled by FSU, handled by VT. They eke out wins against bad teams like BC. That's what 6 win teams look like. The only other 6 win style is a team that really could win 9-10 games but underachieves (see us in 2010). Similarly, the fans turn on the coach because it looks bad. That's not us. We're the true, not-good-enough 6 win team. We're 2007, 1997 Miami.

I guess this will go on. People said this team would "take lumps" and yesterday was a lump but some people are losing it. These guys will probably phase in some young guys and phase out older guys (Moore/Ivery/Bush/Kirby etc in, Gaines/Robinson/Smith/Cornelius/Rodgers/Thompkins types out). They're going to take some beatings anyway. They'll simplify the D and get some younger guys more work on O. If they improve through the year and the guys keep trying hard, that is a good omen. If we stay stagnant, bad.

Bottom line, this year was not going to look good unless we won a lot more games than people were predicting. I'm not somebody who has 100% faith in Golden (it'd be hard to 1 year in), but this was going to be a 3-4 year project and that is for a reason.

What type of 6-6 team did we have last year?
 
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I can't say with any certainty if the coaches or the players are the problem, neither can anyone else. One thing that is constant is the last 10 years we have signed the same kind of kids from the same schools. Yes some get drafted, but few have been great players. Bottom line, the talent, type of kid we have recruited is overrated. 3 head coaches, multiple coordinators and position coaches and the result has been the same. We have not been stout on defense, explosive on offense and special teams in many years. Coaches have changed, results are the same. It's time to seriously look at the type of kids we are signing. I believe Golden is doing this, but we won't know for sure until he has signed 4 classes and may not even know then considering the looming sanctions. Looking objectively at the future, it does not appear very bright.
 
I don't totally disagree, but the problems on defense are very disturbing. Yes, the talent is down, but even last year, when we had Fortson, Vernon, and Spence, we had trouble getting off the field. D'onofrio is a huge liability that may be impossible to overcome.

Right on point...that defense will not win. We can't just sit back and let teams dictate. I understand that can be your gameplan, but once the assraping is well underway its time to try something different. The lack of adjustments and stubbornness is much more concerning than actual on field performance.
 
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Knox,

The way I see the defense is that it's forced to be vanilla by necessity but not by plan. This isnt the old shannon system that was vanilla by design. I think d'onofrio wants to do a lot and teaches a lot of defenses. In fact, i think he comes into each game with a lot. That is why we run a fair amount early. But once the other team runs through you with little interruption for 2 td's you scale back by necessity. That is an important distinction in that I'd argue that what they need to do is scale back by design--accept that we cant run a host of defenses and truly prepare to be vanilla by design. That would make things easier on the players and reduce the set of concepts they have to master.
 
I don't totally disagree, but the problems on defense are very disturbing. Yes, the talent is down, but even last year, when we had Fortson, Vernon, and Spence, we had trouble getting off the field. D'onofrio is a huge liability that may be impossible to overcome.

Right on point...that defense will not win. We can't just sit back and let teams dictate. I understand that can be your gameplan, but once the assraping is well underway its time to try something different. The lack of adjustments and stubbornness is much more concerning than actual on field performance.

Funny part was Dan Sileo on WQAM post game was bashing the kids and made no mention of the horrid coaching.
 
Knox,

The way I see the defense is that it's forced to be vanilla by necessity but not by plan. This isnt the old shannon system that was vanilla by design. I think d'onofrio wants to do a lot and teaches a lot of defenses. In fact, i think he comes into each game with a lot. That is why we run a fair amount early. But once the other team runs through you with little interruption for 2 td's you scale back by necessity. That is an important distinction in that I'd argue that what they need to do is scale back by design--accept that we cant run a host of defenses and truly prepare to be vanilla by design. That would make things easier on the players and reduce the set of concepts they have to master.


I agree with this.

D'Onofrio has discussed many times that you want to have multiple fronts and give an offense different looks so they don't know what to expect every time they snap the ball.

However, we've seen the exact opposite, and I don't think it's because D'Onofrio was lying or because this is his version of giving "multiple" looks.

There's literally no defensive unit we can hang our hats on. The DL is a mix of broken upperclassmen and first & second year players who aren't strong/experienced enough to be impact players. Our two best LBs look like Perryman and Eddie Johnson (both 2nd year players). And it's the same in the secondary. McGee looks like he's trying his damnedest not to be a bust. I just don't know what you're supposed to call on defense right now.

The '09 and '10 defensive recruiting classes were a complete train wreck, and there was only ONE player committed when Golden took over in December 2010. He had to cobble that '11 class together in a little over a month and had to reach for bodies like Smith, King, Armbrister, etc...

We just brought in 7 d-linemen, and it looks like we're going to bring in 3-4 more this year.

Sadly, this was a full-scale rebuilding job.
 
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Penn...you're not the only person on the board making these kind of posts...but I just want to say you're missing the point here.

Most of us which are up in arms today are the same people who didn't think we'd be a good team, much less a good defense this year.

It's not WHAT they are are doing against us...it's HOW they are doing it. I can accept guys getting burned or outmuscled since those are the 2 things you would expect from freshman defenders. I expect freshmen to lose one-on-one battles against opposing upperclassmen. That's a given.

What we're talking about here is schematic. If anyone doesn't see it, doesn't realize it, doesn't understand it.....then you're probably not watching close enough. We just walked into a game against a predominately one dimensional K State team with a defensive gameplan that didn't call for pressuring Klein, crowding the box, and selling out to stop the run.

In addition...there's alot of talk of the freshman being confused by the D....well then why the **** are we predominately playing a soft zone???? Opposing receivers are running free, unchecked, unaccounted for at every level of the defense.

I'm sorry....but this post is way off base. A lot of the posters up in arms are among the most respected on this board. There is a SCHEMATIC issue here. "Onfrio" isn't the answer.
 
Penn...you're not the only person on the board making these kind of posts...but I just want to say you're missing the point here.

Most of us which are up in arms today are the same people who didn't think we'd be a good team, much less a good defense this year.

It's not WHAT they are are doing against us...it's HOW they are doing it. I can accept guys getting burned or outmuscled since those are the 2 things you would expect from freshman defenders. I expect freshmen to lose one-on-one battles against opposing upperclassmen. That's a given.

What we're talking about here is schematic. If anyone doesn't see it, doesn't realize it, doesn't understand it.....then you're probably not watching close enough. We just walked into a game against a predominately one dimensional K State team with a defensive gameplan that didn't call for pressuring Klein, crowding the box, and selling out to stop the run.

In addition...there's alot of talk of the freshman being confused by the D....well then why the **** are we predominately playing a soft zone???? Opposing receivers are running free, unchecked, unaccounted for at every level of the defense.

I'm sorry....but this post is way off base. A lot of the posters up in arms are among the most respected on this board. There is a SCHEMATIC issue here. "Onfrio" isn't the answer.


Klein killed us through the air, too. He completed passes against man, zone, whatever.

BTW KState won 10 games last year and put up a lot of points against a lot of teams.

We're just bad. For every schematic "correction", there's a counter. There's nothing we can successfully take away right now.
 
Penn...you're not the only person on the board making these kind of posts...but I just want to say you're missing the point here.

Most of us which are up in arms today are the same people who didn't think we'd be a good team, much less a good defense this year.

It's not WHAT they are are doing against us...it's HOW they are doing it. I can accept guys getting burned or outmuscled since those are the 2 things you would expect from freshman defenders. I expect freshmen to lose one-on-one battles against opposing upperclassmen. That's a given.

What we're talking about here is schematic. If anyone doesn't see it, doesn't realize it, doesn't understand it.....then you're probably not watching close enough. We just walked into a game against a predominately one dimensional K State team with a defensive gameplan that didn't call for pressuring Klein, crowding the box, and selling out to stop the run.

In addition...there's alot of talk of the freshman being confused by the D....well then why the **** are we predominately playing a soft zone???? Opposing receivers are running free, unchecked, unaccounted for at every level of the defense.

I'm sorry....but this post is way off base. A lot of the posters up in arms are among the most respected on this board. There is a SCHEMATIC issue here. "Onfrio" isn't the answer.


Klein killed us through the air, too. He completed passes against man, zone, whatever.

BTW KState won 10 games last year and put up a lot of points against a lot of teams.

We're just bad. For every schematic "correction", there's a counter. There's nothing we can successfully take away right now.

He killed us through the air because we didn't commit to stop ANYTHING.

We sat back in soft cover 2/3 shell and never had more than 6 or 7 in the box. When you can't stop the run it becomes ALOT easier to sneak in big passing plays.

Worst job of preparation/gameplanning I've seen in 30 years of being a Canes fan. Downright embarrassing. "Onfrio" should be ashamed of himself today.

I don't think there is any way I could possibly disagree with this line of reasoning anymore. If you don't see the schematic issue here.....well then there isn't much more to say.
 
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