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A note on South Florida RBs

gogeta4 said:
Again.....NFL stats arent helping us win games in the ACC.

Who's the starting rb for the #1 team currently in college football...asking for a friend?.
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But teams that win the ACC have a ton of NFL talent, right? Saying we don't need NFL talent at any position isn't a good argument

Tell your friend - Kenny McIntosh and his 5.2 ypc is the starting Georgia RB. Ask your friend - Georgia has a former walk-on at QB, so is that proof we don't need to recruit QB's?

Look - if our entire defense was Day 1&2 NFL talents like Georgia, I'd be fine with Kenny McIntosh or a similar talent at RB. But until that happens, we sure as **** better get RB's with more talent. But that's only if we want to win more than 7-8 wins per year. No need for more talent if 7-8 wins is the goal. We're good
 
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CANEMC said:
Rooster (like others) was misused here. I don't think Lash would've offered him if that wasn't the case.
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I mean he bares a bit of responsibility too. It’d be one thing if he was simply just not getting the same amount of yards/big plays, but the fumbles were on him.
 
M3N said:
Good players don’t fumble every game and get suspended a couple times
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I mean you're not wrong, but not everything is cut and dry. Rooster did some good things here and we'd have been in a lot worse shape had he not been here.
 
bshaw28 said:
My point is since 2015 - if Singletary, who isn't even a 1,000 yd RB is the best RB, then that's a bad look

Since 2015 the Philly area has produced Saquon Barkley, Jonathan Taylor, and Deandre Swift

If your keeping up with current events - South FL is nowhere close to producing the best RB's. Historically - yes, So FL is the best. But those days have passed.

So how long can you hang onto past glory? 10 years? Because that ship has sailed. 15 years? 20 years?

The bigger point is - just because South FL has produced great RB's in the past, assuming they produce a great RB every year is a bad strategy - as Miami has proven.
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Again you keep speaking on NFL....who tf cares? lol

Im speaking on college football.

UGA is currently the top dog in college football...and their last 2 best rbs are south florida kids.

But even back to Singletary he doesnt have 1k because the Bills give a f*ck about running the ball really and truly. Hes slightly better than Swift (Whos from jersey) if you value Swift i guess.

Miami hasnt proven anything other than we are terrible in producing much of anything with our last few coaching staffs.

Who in Pa you like this year over Mark Fletcher and Chris Johnson?.

If were leaving this STATE for a rb he better be the elite of the elites.....Adrian Peterson level....There is no need to leave South Florida unless you swung and miss...let alone the state.

ALos like i stated who the starting rb for UGA? Where is he from?.
 
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bshaw28 said:
But teams that win the ACC have a ton of NFL talent, right? Saying we don't need NFL talent at any position isn't a good argument

Tell your friend - Kenny McIntosh and his 5.2 ypc is the starting Georgia RB. Ask your friend - Georgia has a former walk-on at QB, so is that proof we don't need to recruit QB's?

Look - if our entire defense was Day 1&2 NFL talents like Georgia, I'd be fine with Kenny McIntosh or a similar talent at RB. But until that happens, we sure as **** better get RB's with more talent. But that's only if we want to win more than 7-8 wins per year. No need for more talent if 7-8 wins is the goal. We're good
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Uga recruits elite rbs and can have at it in THEIR own state...yet they crave the kids from down here. UGA is able to have a walk on at qb because they can run the ball with s.fla rbs. lol

They have their pick of who they want at rb every year nation wide...and in state where rbs are produced but yet......

They start the walk on for whatever reason. Their coach has never been an offensive savant lol.

Clemson is the best team in the Acc and we have more nfl rbs than they do.

Nfl aint the end all be all for a good college back.

Me and you typically agree...but you dig your heels in on this and it really doesnt make much sense to me honestly.
 
gogeta4 said:
Again you keep speaking on NFL....who tf cares? lol

Im speaking on college football.

UGA is currently the top dog in college football...and their last 2 best rbs are south florida kids.

But even back to Singletary he doesnt have 1k because the Bills give a f*ck about running the ball really and truly. Hes slightly better than Swift (Whos from jersey) if you value Swift i guess.

Miami hasnt proven anything other than we are terrible in producing much of anything with our last few coaching staffs.

Who in Pa you like this year over Mark Fletcher and Chris Johnson?.
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What a player does in the NFL is a good measure of how talented he is - that's why NFL success matters. Zack Moss can put up better numbers than Lamar Miller in college, but the NFL will show who the more talented player is.

Georgia's top 4 rushers this year are from 4 different states - FL, GA, CA, MS. Their leading rusher last year was from NC. Before that PA (not NJ). UGA could stay in Georgia and put together a nice backfield, same as we do in South Florida. But they want to be Elite, so they go anywhere to get talent. If we want to be Elite, we need to do the same.

So were coaching staffs to blame for the poor performance of highly rated South FL RB's 02-08 like Tyrone Moss, Charlie Jones, Bobby Washington, and Javarris James? The further you get away from it, the more you realize these players just didn't have the talent to match their recruiting rankings. The further we get away from our So FL RB's from the last 10 years, the same thing will become clear for them as well.

I don't know if I'd trade Fletcher for anyone in PA this year. But in a heartbeat I'd trade all 4 of our So FL RB's Chaney/Parrish/Fletcher/Johnson for the #1 RB in PA last year - Nick Singleton. Would anyone NOT make that 4 for 1 trade?
 
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gogeta4 said:
If were leaving this STATE for a rb he better be the elite of the elites.....Adrian Peterson level....There is no need to leave South Florida unless you swung and miss...let alone the state.
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You do realize how many great RB's talent fall somewhere between the Walton/Franklin/Knighton/Fletcher's of the world and generational talents like Adrian Peterson, right? I mean - just say "we don't ever need to leave FL" since Adrian Peterson's only come around once every 5-10 years.

But funny story for you about Adrian Peterson....I was at Greentree watching practice in 2004 and there's 2 I clearly remember from that day:

1) Greg Olsen was KILLING our defense

2) I was talking Canes football with 7-8 random dudes, all good guys, and I said "Sucks we didn't sign Adrian Peterson, he's a lot better than Tyrone Moss". Everyone laughed. Said I was crazy. All agreed that "I'll take the top RB in South Florida over any RB in the country every year". I told them 2 things - 1) You have to evaluate the talent of the South Florida RB each year. Some years you're going to need to leave So FL. 2) You boys are going to LOVE the internet once you get it!

The Irony is:

- Even when the RB I wanted to leave FL for was ACTUALLY Adrian Peterson, fans still thought South FL RB's like Tyrone Moss & Charlie Jones were just as good
- 20 years later and we're having the same discussion. We've won 10 games once in those 20 years. So no need to re-think the way we recruit, right?
 
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gogeta4 said:
Me and you typically agree...but you dig your heels in on this and it really doesnt make much sense to me honestly.
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The reason is I've seen this "Just stay in South Florida" mentality fail before. I agree - I respect your opinion and enjoy our discussions, but we don't see eye to eye on this one.

2002 - #149 JR Mounts
2003 - #31 Tyrone Moss
2004 #37 Charlie Jones & #38 Bobby Washington
2006 - #72 Kylan Robinson & #119 Javarris James
2007 - #210 Damien Berry

Finally in 2009 #68 Lamar Miller was a homerun, but "not leaving South FL" hurt us for nearly a decade. To be fair, the out of state RB's we did take weren't much better during that time. Evals were much more of an issue than coaching. But we had the juice to get any RB anywhere in the early 2000's, and we shot ourselves in the foot by staying in South FL.

And we're going through it again since 2013 - Yearby, Walton, Choc, Homer, Burns, Chaney, Knighton, Thad, Fletcher, Johnson - we got some nice players but Homer is the only one who was close to a "difference maker"

I've been saying/warning there's been a significant drop in talent since 2015 for a long time now. South Florida doesn't have a top 200 ranked RB in the 2021-2024. That's 4 years. That's NOT GOOD. If we're satisfied with not getting a Top 200 player at any position over a 4 year period, then we're doing it wrong.
 
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bshaw28 said:
What a player does in the NFL is a good measure of how talented he is - that's why NFL success matters. Zack Moss can put up better numbers than Lamar Miller in college, but the NFL will show who the more talented player is.

Georgia's top 4 rushers this year are from 4 different states - FL, GA, CA, MS. Their leading rusher last year was from NC. Before that PA (not NJ). UGA could stay in Georgia and put together a nice backfield, same as we do in South Florida. But they want to be Elite, so they go anywhere to get talent. If we want to be Elite, we need to do the same.

So were coaching staffs to blame for the poor performance of highly rated South FL RB's 02-08 like Tyrone Moss, Charlie Jones, Bobby Washington, and Javarris James? The further you get away from it, the more you realize these players just didn't have the talent to match their recruiting rankings. The further we get away from our So FL RB's from the last 10 years, the same thing will become clear for them as well.

I don't know if I'd trade Fletcher for anyone in PA this year. But in a heartbeat I'd trade all 4 of our So FL RB's Chaney/Parrish/Fletcher/Johnson for the #1 RB in PA last year - Nick Singleton. Would anyone NOT make that 4 for 1 trade?
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On the bolded...Not really true either as the same variables are there in the nfl. (play style, off the field issues, coaching favorites)

For example my Dolphins best back currently is probably Rasheem Mostert (Florida back) who could even predict that.

Back to UGA...They want to be elite so the go anywhere to get talent. So what area do they go mostly for that talent.....Im a help you on that.....South Florida. They have went to our well more so than anywhere else for a running back in the last 10 years...and its not close for them. They have started 3 south slorida running backs.

You cant just go on your 3rd paragraph how you did ...dont factor in variables or dont even do it for the other regions...who ARENT producing them at the clip we are. Bobby never got in (we just landed his kids though) He ended up being a solid college player at NC S AND EASTERN KENTUCKY, Tyrone Moss was above average, Led the ACC in touchdowns in 2005 despite missing the final four games (and most of the fifth)…Was on pace to rush for 1,157 yards and score 21 touchdowns before his injury. Charlie Jones was overrated, Javarris James was just meh.

Got ya on Nick Singleton who is from Reading who you 100 percent would of wasted time recruiting considering he committed to Psu in the summer. Most of the time you have to recruit your recruiting base which will be locally, why should you shy away from the area at a position that the area probably produces the most nfl guys because Al Golden couldnt coach..or Manny Diaz spit too much?.

I'd do what Mario is doing....build an offensive line...land the local studs at the position while swinging for the top dogs IN STATE...and then offering long shots nationally like the Singleton's of the world. Like even this year i wasnt mad at his approcach they clearly went national when it looked like we were striking or behind the 8 ball on the south florida and Florida backs. They offered a few national kids later in the year.

Also i think CJ Baxter is the best back in the class NATIONWIDE...Singleton level...Richard Young is also a beast to the high power...realize CJ BAXTER, RICHARD YOUNG, MARK FLETCHER, Chris Johnson ALL are from under 2 hours from Um's campus.
Thats with me leaving off probably another 5 or 6 OTHER power 5 backs from the area...JUST IN THIS CLASS!. Its insane...remember that when your going off on that PA area or any other area....this aint in 5 years cycle...these guys are all in the same class.lol
 
bshaw28 said:
You do realize how many great RB's talent fall somewhere between the Walton/Franklin/Knighton/Fletcher's of the world and generational talents like Adrian Peterson, right? I mean - just say "we don't ever need to leave FL" since Adrian Peterson's only come around once every 5-10 years.

But funny story for you about Adrian Peterson....I was at Greentree watching practice in 2004 and there's 2 I clearly remember from that day:

1) Greg Olsen was KILLING our defense

2) I was talking Canes football with 7-8 random dudes, all good guys, and I said "Sucks we didn't sign Adrian Peterson, he's a lot better than Tyrone Moss". Everyone laughed. Said I was crazy. All agreed that "I'll take the top RB in South Florida over any RB in the country every year". I told them 2 things - 1) You have to evaluate the talent of the South Florida RB each year. Some years you're going to need to leave So FL. 2) You boys are going to LOVE the internet once you get it!

The Irony is:

- Even when the RB I wanted to leave FL for was ACTUALLY Adrian Peterson, fans still thought South FL RB's like Tyrone Moss & Charlie Jones were just as good
- 20 years later and we're having the same discussion. We've won 10 games once in those 20 years. So no need to re-think the way we recruit, right?
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Me saying Adrian Peterson is hyperbole...Clearly mean you only leave for an elite level talent. Could fall into any of the varinces..but you leave for a guy you expect to hit 1k rushing a year in my opinion.

1.) loved Greg Olden always was ecstatic when he transferred
2.) You WILL ALWAYS have the 100 percent South Florida dudes like that. That bias may be because we have watched the kids run since they were like 9 yrs old. I 100 percent agree with you have the evaluate the talent of the position EVERY YEAR. I 100 percent feel the same way.

I dont know WHO thought Ty was Adrian Peterson level though...every one kinda knew when that all star game hit and he kinda drug Willie Williams into the end zone he was a different creature.

But Ty Moss is probably Broward County's best back in history when debated so he's a kid you HAVE to take in my opinion (RIP)...Thad and Rooster you take...
Rooster kind of got butted out by having his new rb coach bringing ANOTHER s.fla kid with him from the same area in s.fla (down south) and was misused and seemed to press a bit this year...led to fumbles...he read the reading on the wall playing in a sh*tty offense and is bouncing to where he likely starts with his old coach. I think if healthy he has a solid year for SMU.

Thad is from where im from...right down the same road (Pembroke). He wasnt a natural rb, use to play qb growing up, was a hooper on the court (basketball) i coached against him in high school he might of gotten 200 against us...but he needs volume carries. Because hes like a death by paper cuts sort of thing lol. Didnt expect the low work ethic...but always thought he was a big 10 type of back or like an AJ Dillon type at BC where he can be a guy that is a bell cow that maybe gets 20 + carries a game and wears guys down.

We won 10 games in 20 years not because we need to change the way we recruit...but because we need to change the way we hire coaches. In 20 years we have had maybe one job interview (Al Golden) every one else has just been handed the job..Mario Cristobal included. The worst HR department in the country. In 20 years we have had...1 coaching search and 15 coaches.
 
bshaw28 said:
The reason is I've seen this "Just stay in South Florida" mentality fail before. I agree - I respect your opinion and enjoy our discussions, but we don't see eye to eye on this one.

2002 - #149 JR Mounts
2003 - #31 Tyrone Moss
2004 #37 Charlie Jones & #38 Bobby Washington
2006 - #72 Kylan Robinson & #119 Javarris James
2007 - #210 Damien Berry

Finally in 2009 #68 Lamar Miller was a homerun, but "not leaving South FL" hurt us for nearly a decade. To be fair, the out of state RB's we did take weren't much better during that time. Evals were much more of an issue than coaching. But we had the juice to get any RB anywhere in the early 2000's, and we shot ourselves in the foot by staying in South FL.

And we're going through it again since 2013 - Yearby, Walton, Choc, Homer, Burns, Chaney, Knighton, Thad, Fletcher, Johnson - we got some nice players but Homer is the only one who was close to a "difference maker"

I've been saying/warning there's been a significant drop in talent since 2015 for a long time now. South Florida doesn't have a top 200 ranked RB in the 2021-2024. That's 4 years. That's NOT GOOD. If we're satisfied with not getting a Top 200 player at any position over a 4 year period, then we're doing it wrong.
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Stop reading after the bolded. lol ( just playing)

I dont understand the second bolded part, explain?
 
gogeta4 said:
Stop reading after the bolded. lol ( just playing)

I dont understand the second bolded part, explain?
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I'm considering "South Florida" as Dade/Broward/West Palm. If you want to extend it to Orlando & Ft. Myers to include CJ Baxter & Richard Young this year - it would change things

Top South Florida RB's (247 Rankings)

2019 - #187 Kenny McIntosh
2020 - #106 Jaylan Knighton
2021 - #243 Amari Daniels
2022- #664 Jazuin Patterson
2023 - #243 Mark Fletcher
2024 - #205 Isaac Brown

The talent level is slipping
 
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gogeta4 said:
I dont know WHO thought Ty was Adrian Peterson level though...every one kinda knew when that all star game hit and he kinda drug Willie Williams into the end zone he was a different creature.
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The recruiting services thought that. So if the fans had bias, but they also had the recruiting rankings & experts to back them up.

Tyrone Moss, Charlie Jones, Bobby Washington were all ranked the exact same way Adrian Peterson, Marshawn Lynch, and Reggie Bush were.

And why did they think that? Bad assumptions. The success of Edge, JJ Davenport, Gore, Willis meant people assumed whoever the top Dade/Broward RB was each year was automatically a beast.

Fast Forward and the success of Miller, Gio, Freeman, Duke, etc led to Yearby & Walton being overrated. Yearby, Walton, Robert Burns - they were all the #1 ranked RB in the country in their class at one point in time. If you showed out in Dade/Broward at a young age, you'd automatically get bumped to the top of the list.

Some years So FL RB's will be the best in the country. Other years they won't be that good. Assuming there will always be a good So FL every year is how mistakes are made.

The key in recruiting is identifying which years are which. 2023 for FL was easy. Any fool can see Baxter & Young are studs. It's the other years since 2015 where recruiters need to earn their paycheck.
 
gogeta4 said:
On the bolded...Not really true either as the same variables are there in the nfl. (play style, off the field issues, coaching favorites)

For example my Dolphins best back currently is probably Rasheem Mostert (Florida back) who could even predict that.

Back to UGA...They want to be elite so the go anywhere to get talent. So what area do they go mostly for that talent.....Im a help you on that.....South Florida. They have went to our well more so than anywhere else for a running back in the last 10 years...and its not close for them. They have started 3 south slorida running backs.

You cant just go on your 3rd paragraph how you did ...dont factor in variables or dont even do it for the other regions...who ARENT producing them at the clip we are. Bobby never got in (we just landed his kids though) He ended up being a solid college player at NC S AND EASTERN KENTUCKY, Tyrone Moss was above average, Led the ACC in touchdowns in 2005 despite missing the final four games (and most of the fifth)…Was on pace to rush for 1,157 yards and score 21 touchdowns before his injury. Charlie Jones was overrated, Javarris James was just meh.

Got ya on Nick Singleton who is from Reading who you 100 percent would of wasted time recruiting considering he committed to Psu in the summer. Most of the time you have to recruit your recruiting base which will be locally, why should you shy away from the area at a position that the area probably produces the most nfl guys because Al Golden couldnt coach..or Manny Diaz spit too much?.

I'd do what Mario is doing....build an offensive line...land the local studs at the position while swinging for the top dogs IN STATE...and then offering long shots nationally like the Singleton's of the world. Like even this year i wasnt mad at his approcach they clearly went national when it looked like we were striking or behind the 8 ball on the south florida and Florida backs. They offered a few national kids later in the year.

Also i think CJ Baxter is the best back in the class NATIONWIDE...Singleton level...Richard Young is also a beast to the high power...realize CJ BAXTER, RICHARD YOUNG, MARK FLETCHER, Chris Johnson ALL are from under 2 hours from Um's campus.
Thats with me leaving off probably another 5 or 6 OTHER power 5 backs from the area...JUST IN THIS CLASS!. Its insane...remember that when your going off on that PA area or any other area....this aint in 5 years cycle...these guys are all in the same class.lol
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Circumstances/Variables

This is always a slippery slope because there's a fine line between "reasons" and "excuses".

Jaylan Knighton - using him since he's the most recent example. Knighton is a bad runner. That's by far the main reason for his lack success here. So to defend Knighton people will say "you're not considering his circumstances". This is true - but these people only want you to consider the negative circumstances, not the positive. Negatives - like bad coaching, play calling, OL play - all contribute & are valid reasons for Knighton's issues, but all are secondary to his main issue - he's a bad runner. They also don't want to mention the positives - like Cam/Chaney injuries cleared the way for him to get so much playing time, he played with TVD who was throwing for 300 & 3TD's every game so defenses couldn't load against the run, and he faced a lot of awful ACC run defenses.

We can go thru any players circumstances any give some type of spin. But a LARGE majority of the time players that don't play well is because they're just not that good.

UGA RB's

You've got a lot of spin going here. Most of GA's RB's are from GA. When they leave - they gone to NC as much as So FL - Gurley, Marshall, Z. Michel was always #2 behind Gurley (GA). Gurley started over Michel for 3 years. Michel only started the 2nd half of the year where Gurley tore his knee. Cook never started. He only had 10+ carries in a game 5 times, with 12 being the most. He was always change of pace RB. McIntosh has started this year, but he also only has 10 more carries & 26 more yds than the #2 RB Edwards. They're more like 1A/1B.

2023 FL RB's

Baxter & Young are studs. This is far and away the best RB class since 2015. Put 2023 against any class 2015-2022 & 2023 kills it. But the talent in 2023 doesn't excuse the lack of talent 2015-2022. And the talent in 2023 isn't a good justification for blindly staying in FL 2015-22.
 
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DMoney said:
Bshaw, you go to some amazing lengths to convince yourself that Mark Walton- a 4th round pick who was starting in the NFL before getting in trouble- was not a good football player.

As a stubborn man myself, I salute your commitment.
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Walton had reputation. That was worth it's weight in gold. Allowed for everyone to overlook his terrible production and athletic measurables.

As a Walton detractor - it was always pretty easy for me. I just had to watch the games and look at the stats. All I need to do is post his game log vs P5 teams (below) and it's a pretty open & shut case.

It's the Walton defenders like yourself making bold statements that "Walton would be a better Pro than Duke" than had to A LOT of work to believe all the bs excuses - he was too young, he had more big plays than called back than any RB in history (all 2 of them), the coaching/play calling/OL was to blame, he was playing on one leg, bad combine was because he was still hurt, etc. I respect both the dedication & imagination. True masters of your craft.

But all the info you need is in his P5 game log where he averaged 3.5 ypc or less 73% of the time. Honestly....73% is just legendary

Walton remains the gold standard for ineptitude. Knighton came for his title, but really f*cked it up by having a couple good games at the end of 2022.

Walton - the GOAT

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