forums

4th Quarter Performers of the Week ... thoughts?

Coach Macho said:
I have a hard time believing that Ivey can't be developed into a decent press Corner.
He's long and has great size.

I was blessed to have an outstanding DB coach working with me at Deerfield.
I watched him turn a mediocre WR into one of the top CB's in South Florida in one year. Kid went from completely unknown, to locking up everybody in the Dade/Broward All Star game, to earning a D1 offer. (mainly off of reputation)

He didn't run that well, but the kid was long (6'1") and had a dog mentality. The rest was developed by his DB coach.
That length, along with the techniques taught by his DB coach, allowed him disrupt much faster WR's before they even got into their route. (i.e. Nathaniel Joseph - rendered him useless and a non factor on the outside)

But this goes back to KNOWING WHAT PERSONNEL YOU HAVE and ADJUSTING YOUR SCHEME ACCORDINGLY.
I played press and press-bail like 80% of the season because I knew I had big physical CB's that were hard to get around.
WR's want to run routes unimpeded, they don't like being disrupted. It's extremely hard to stem your route when the CB guarding you is 6'1"-6'2" with long a$$ arms and decent feet. The WR has to go AROUND HIM before he can get his route going. This disrupts WR/route spacing and can also throw off the timing of the play.

If you got big a$$ Corners like Blades, Stevenson, Ivey, etc...then IMO your coverage scheme should be based on disruption on the outside.
You can play a "match" version of Cover-3 (my preference) or you can play Press-Quarters.

Steele brings SEC experience so I'm hoping that he's the type of implement some of these concepts.

The key is THE COACHING AND TECHNIQUE at Corner though.
If the CB's are whiffing and letting WR's run by them and get into their route, then it defeats the purpose of playing press. The idea is to bully the WR within the first 5 yards. That takes good eyes, good feet/lateral movement and good technique.
Click to expand...
perhaps the most important trait, which IMO is missing in Ivey and others.
 
Advertisement
uprising said:
Exactly. It drove me crazy every time to see us line up in press coverage, then just give the wr a free release. Wtf is point lining up in man if you're going to attempt to jam the wr. Glad that Mickey Mouse tihs is outta here.
Click to expand...

You telling me.

Especially if you're going to blitz your safety from Pluto.

So run a DE/DT TWIST stunt blitz your safety from 25 yards away but have your corners give free routes and easy outlet passes at the same time?

What's the point in blitzing then? It's just getting you picked apart.

Not to mention it's going to leave a mud foot guy like Flagg in the open field against a speed demon.

Recipe for disaster.

Mcintosh and Willis really covered some insane holes in Manny scheme/philosophy and in turn created a demon of stubbornness and arrogance within Manny.

He just couldn't let that **** go.
 
I'm rooting for the lights to come on for Ivey. Would be an awesome comeback kid story. .... ut I'm super happy we have Porter now and D$ siad in last night's podcast that we're looking to bring in another portal CB. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
 
Advertisement
Coach Macho said:
I have a hard time believing that Ivey can't be developed into a decent press Corner.
He's long and has great size.

I was blessed to have an outstanding DB coach working with me at Deerfield.
I watched him turn a mediocre WR into one of the top CB's in South Florida in one year. Kid went from completely unknown, to locking up everybody in the Dade/Broward All Star game, to earning a D1 offer. (mainly off of reputation)

He didn't run that well, but the kid was long (6'1") and had a dog mentality. The rest was developed by his DB coach.
That length, along with the techniques taught by his DB coach, allowed him disrupt much faster WR's before they even got into their route. (i.e. Nathaniel Joseph - rendered him useless and a non factor on the outside)

But this goes back to KNOWING WHAT PERSONNEL YOU HAVE and ADJUSTING YOUR SCHEME ACCORDINGLY.
I played press and press-bail like 80% of the season because I knew I had big physical CB's that were hard to get around.
WR's want to run routes unimpeded, they don't like being disrupted. It's extremely hard to stem your route when the CB guarding you is 6'1"-6'2" with long a$$ arms and decent feet. The WR has to go AROUND HIM before he can get his route going. This disrupts WR/route spacing and can also throw off the timing of the play.

If you got big a$$ Corners like Blades, Stevenson, Ivey, etc...then IMO your coverage scheme should be based on disruption on the outside.
You can play a "match" version of Cover-3 (my preference) or you can play Press-Quarters.

Steele brings SEC experience so I'm hoping that he's the type of implement some of these concepts.

The key is THE COACHING AND TECHNIQUE at Corner though.
If the CB's are whiffing and letting WR's run by them and get into their route, then it defeats the purpose of playing press. The idea is to bully the WR within the first 5 yards. That takes good eyes, good feet/lateral movement and good technique.
Click to expand...
Everything you are saying about what it takes to play that scheme you mentioned.. Ivey lacks. He has freak size and freak long arms. Also looks to be strong and have punchers hands..However. The problem is he also has freakishly bad feet and has no lateral movement and once hes beat..that 4.7-4.8 speed starts to show and he has no recovery speed.

Maybe they can get something out of him, I dont know. This would be the 3rd DB coach to try and save Ivey. Like someone said, if he F around at the combine and runs a 4.6 or something..there will be some NFL DB coach who convinces his HC and GM that "It will be me to unleash this beast! I promise! Draft him!!". He will absolutely turn heads when its "no shirts and only boxers" day for the weigh-ins.. (Pause)

You know what sucks too? I met the kid once at a charity event in Orlando 3 years ago. He was there repping the Kappas..Coolest and nicest kid you could meet. Hard not to root for him. So I wont bash him. But man, I get tired of being let down by him and Blades these last few years.
 
Coach Macho said:
I have a hard time believing that Ivey can't be developed into a decent press Corner.
He's long and has great size.

I was blessed to have an outstanding DB coach working with me at Deerfield.
I watched him turn a mediocre WR into one of the top CB's in South Florida in one year. Kid went from completely unknown, to locking up everybody in the Dade/Broward All Star game, to earning a D1 offer. (mainly off of reputation)

He didn't run that well, but the kid was long (6'1") and had a dog mentality. The rest was developed by his DB coach.
That length, along with the techniques taught by his DB coach, allowed him disrupt much faster WR's before they even got into their route. (i.e. Nathaniel Joseph - rendered him useless and a non factor on the outside)

But this goes back to KNOWING WHAT PERSONNEL YOU HAVE and ADJUSTING YOUR SCHEME ACCORDINGLY.
I played press and press-bail like 80% of the season because I knew I had big physical CB's that were hard to get around.
WR's want to run routes unimpeded, they don't like being disrupted. It's extremely hard to stem your route when the CB guarding you is 6'1"-6'2" with long a$$ arms and decent feet. The WR has to go AROUND HIM before he can get his route going. This disrupts WR/route spacing and can also throw off the timing of the play.

If you got big a$$ Corners like Blades, Stevenson, Ivey, etc...then IMO your coverage scheme should be based on disruption on the outside.
You can play a "match" version of Cover-3 (my preference) or you can play Press-Quarters.

Steele brings SEC experience so I'm hoping that he's the type of implement some of these concepts.

The key is THE COACHING AND TECHNIQUE at Corner though.
If the CB's are whiffing and letting WR's run by them and get into their route, then it defeats the purpose of playing press. The idea is to bully the WR within the first 5 yards. That takes good eyes, good feet/lateral movement and good technique.
Click to expand...

this is good stuff right here.

coach cozza was friends with bill walsh, and my junior year at Yale, after walsh had retired coaching, he came one day in the off season to do a film session and a mini-tutorial with us QB's.

walsh was talking to us about how to speed up our reads and progressions. and one of the things he said, which always stuck with me, was that between the CB and the WR, whoever wins the first three yards of the stem, wins the route. (if your WR was stuffed, you could move off him quickly as he was unlikely to be targetable).

so i totally concur with what you are saying. recovery and superior phase speed is great to have. but if a CB can move the receiver off the route right from the jump, then he's won that rep, and you never get to the point of needing to be a 4.4 guy chasing somebody 40 yards downfield, flipping your hips like you are the second coming of charles woodson
 
Advertisement
RedSquare said:
this is good stuff right here.

coach cozza was friends with bill walsh, and my junior year at Yale, after walsh had retired coaching, he came one day in the off season to do a film session and a mini-tutorial with us QB's.

walsh was talking to us about how to speed up our reads and progressions. and one of the things he said, which always stuck with me, was that between the CB and the WR, whoever wins the first three yards of the stem, wins the route. (if your WR was stuffed, you could move off him quickly as he was unlikely to be targetable).

so i totally concur with what you are saying. recovery and superior phase speed is great to have. but if a CB can move the receiver off the route right from the jump, then he's won that rep, and you never get to the point of needing to be a 4.4 guy chasing somebody 40 yards downfield, flipping your hips like you are the second coming of charles woodson
Click to expand...
Neither of my outside CB's run that well, but WR's never got downfield far enough to beat us in a foot race. They never got going! They were too busy trying to run around our CB's. And you also have the sideline out there for help. So it's extremely hard to release outside and stay in bounds for a deep ball, particularly when the CB's press forces an arching release.

And this ain't 7-on-7, it's real football with a pass rush. You only have so much time.
 
Jassid82 said:
Everything you are saying about what it takes to play that scheme you mentioned.. Ivey lacks. He has freak size and freak long arms. Also looks to be strong and have punchers hands..However. The problem is he also has freakishly bad feet and has no lateral movement and once hes beat..that 4.7-4.8 speed starts to show and he has no recovery speed.

Maybe they can get something out of him, I dont know. This would be the 3rd DB coach to try and save Ivey. Like someone said, if he F around at the combine and runs a 4.6 or something..there will be some NFL DB coach who convinces his HC and GM that "It will be me to unleash this beast! I promise! Draft him!!". He will absolutely turn heads when its "no shirts and only boxers" day for the weigh-ins.. (Pause)

You know what sucks too? I met the kid once at a charity event in Orlando 3 years ago. He was there repping the Kappas..Coolest and nicest kid you could meet. Hard not to root for him. So I wont bash him. But man, I get tired of being let down by him and Blades these last few years.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I don't know anything about his lateral ability, but I trust your opinion.
I know Blades for sure has terrible feet.

But again...
I don't know how much of this is THE KID, or the TEACHING.
I'm not at practice though.
 
Warrior808 said:
Maybe I just have PTSD from Manny's defense but I don't recall a lot of press or bump and run coverages. Man yes, but usually it was off man or they would line up tight then bail before the snap.
Click to expand...
When we lined-up in press alignment we never got our hands on receivers. We play a version of "catch man".
And we were awful at it.

I can still see Blades getting beat inside for slant routes on 3rd & 6.
 
Advertisement
Canezum5 said:
Falling in love or giving credit in the workouts where it's due? 😒 🤔
Click to expand...
Exactly. Not sure why people are assuming that the current staff is going to be making depth chart decisions based on offseason workouts. I get that previous inept staphs did that, but some of these people need to get some therapy, get over the PTSD, and stop trying to parse every tweet and offseason "award" that comes out of the program.

The tweet says "4th Quarter Top Performers of the Week".

That's it. That's all it was about.

I didn't see anything about future team MVP or Thorpe Award candidate in there.
 
Canezum5 said:
Literally every DB on the team did that so it was clearly a coached thing. Did you not see the FSU 4th and 14? Whole Defensive back field just standing In the mud.
Click to expand...
I was there for it, yes I saw it. I'll defer to you guys who know cb play way better than me but I've seen him just stand there and let his guy go by and not even chase several times in key situations over the last couple years. imo that's unacceptable and would get a player permanently benched on my squad. Ivey will never break free from the fake punt play in my mind.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top