3 years

[Fountain of Canes]

We had pretty poor Senior class, i mean FSU won the championship and still only had 1 1st rounder. Texas A&M had 3. the point is none of our draft eligable players had that wow factor and it was based on talent.

Pitt didnt do crap but Aaron Donald was talented and went 14th
. if a player gets in the right system he can flourish.

who is too say if mainzel played in UCF offense would he have had the same production? we dont know.

 

[OBLIVION]

Hurns, Linder

Linder was a wildly heralded recruit who won't be drafted until at least round three, and Hurns may not be drafted at all despite bing a three star kid from Miami.

That is not development.

Development is taking a kid like Calvin Pryor, a 3 star who Miami didn't even want, and getting him drafted by pick 18 after his junior year.

If you don't think Linder and Hurns developed, there's no point in even discussing this. Your argument is weak on so many points. First of all, you're assuming that draft status equals development. Did Ken Dorsey develop? Yeah, thought so.

Hurns is going to be a heck of a receiver for whoever drafts him. Very sure handed, runs excellent routes. Could be a Wes Welker type player (who was also undrafted). I'm not sure that Linder's ceiling was ever that high (as in a first round talent). He was excellent for us, which is what we needed. I'd consider that development, unlike Henderson -- who should have been a first round talent that was not developed for whatever reason people want to attribute that.

Come on man.

That is a horrible example. Dorsey was great at the college level, but he did not have an arm to be drafted higher than what he was. He was fortunate to get drafted period. If he had Morris arm he would have been at least a 2nd day pick.

Then on top of that, your pitching a guy that played when dudes were getting developed.

How is it a horrible example? It's an example of a guy who developed, but wasn't drafted high. The porster was trying to say that draft status correlates with how well a player has developed.

Dorsey not getting drafted high. Was more to do with his physical skill set not be good enough. You do have to posses some physical skills to go with that heart.

 

[KANE]

Good topic and there are solid arguments on both sides. Al didn't inherit a team full of NFL talent, but our development has been **** near abysmal for the last 10+ years, too. Golden, IMO, has developed our kids a little better than Randy did. I personally think that our problem is a CULTURE problem. Scheme, Talent, Coaching can be fixed quickly. It takes a while to fix culture problems.
There is one more VERY important part to this equation as well. That's the KID (attitude, heart, work ethic, and desire). This is the biggest part. That's why I am ****ed at SH and kids like him. He has all the talent in the world, but either he's stupid, or just doesn't have IT in his heart. We seem to have had a lot of these types. I am happy be getting this type of kid out of our program, so I am looking forward to see what AG can do with "His" kids. If he fails this year, D'NOfrio will be tossed out on his ****. The next year AG will be out on his can.

 

[Waffle Honcho]

Linder was a wildly heralded recruit who won't be drafted until at least round three, and Hurns may not be drafted at all despite bing a three star kid from Miami.

That is not development.

Development is taking a kid like Calvin Pryor, a 3 star who Miami didn't even want, and getting him drafted by pick 18 after his junior year.

If you don't think Linder and Hurns developed, there's no point in even discussing this. Your argument is weak on so many points. First of all, you're assuming that draft status equals development. Did Ken Dorsey develop? Yeah, thought so.

Hurns is going to be a heck of a receiver for whoever drafts him. Very sure handed, runs excellent routes. Could be a Wes Welker type player (who was also undrafted). I'm not sure that Linder's ceiling was ever that high (as in a first round talent). He was excellent for us, which is what we needed. I'd consider that development, unlike Henderson -- who should have been a first round talent that was not developed for whatever reason people want to attribute that.

Come on man.

That is a horrible example. Dorsey was great at the college level, but he did not have an arm to be drafted higher than what he was. He was fortunate to get drafted period. If he had Morris arm he would have been at least a 2nd day pick.

Then on top of that, your pitching a guy that played when dudes were getting developed.

How is it a horrible example? It's an example of a guy who developed, but wasn't drafted high. The porster was trying to say that draft status correlates with how well a player has developed.

Dorsey not getting drafted high. Was more to do with his physical skill set not be good enough. You do have to posses some physical skills to go with that heart.

Yeah, but that wasn't the point of the comment. This is the difficulty with people interjecting into a conversation without understanding it (ie all up in the kool aid and don't even know the flavor).

 

[niner]

Give me one guy in this Sr. class that Al "failed" to develop as a first round pick?

Again you aren't understanding the point. We don't know who would have developed. But when your school is consistently failing to produce first rounders from a crop of players that other schools pump out into first rounders, statistically it is impossible that three different staffs just happen to be "unlucky" when it comes to who ends up being a good player.

This idea that every other school is guessing write in recruiting, including the lower rated kids, and we are constantly guessing wrong, is LAUGHABLE.

Here's the better question: what senior did Al Golden DEVELOP?

Hurns, Linder

Linder was a wildly heralded recruit who won't be drafted until at least round three, and Hurns may not be drafted at all despite bing a three star kid from Miami.

That is not development.

Development is taking a kid like Calvin Pryor, a 3 star who Miami didn't even want, and getting him drafted by pick 18 after his junior year.

If you don't think Linder and Hurns developed, there's no point in even discussing this. Your argument is weak on so many points. First of all, you're assuming that draft status equals development. Did Ken Dorsey develop? Yeah, thought so.

Hurns is going to be a heck of a receiver for whoever drafts him. Very sure handed, runs excellent routes. Could be a Wes Welker type player (who was also undrafted). I'm not sure that Linder's ceiling was ever that high (as in a first round talent). He was excellent for us, which is what we needed. I'd consider that development, unlike Henderson -- who should have been a first round talent that was not developed for whatever reason people want to attribute that.

THIS.

You recruit kids to play in your system. The players recruited by this staff to play in this system, are now seniors. We all know how the first class was formed. Look at the sophomores and juniors, have those players that were brought in developed? The list is long of players who have high next level potential.

First thing that needs definition is what development means.

For some, it means making a 3-star into a first rounder. To others, it means making a 3-star into a draftable player. To others, it means improving the player from year to year.

Would Calvin Pryor been a first rounder if he came here? Who knows. Depends on how much someone values individual progress vs progress from coaching/system. Some think a star player would be great anywhere he goes, other feel coaches make them the player that they are.

Would Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Andre Johnson, Denzel Perryman, Ken Dorsey, etc be as good under a different system/coach or would they have succeeded regardless of where they went?

I would say its both, but 75/25 with the latter being coaching/system assistance. Players play.

 

[FullyERicht]

For the 10th time a player "getting better" isn't what is being discussed.

The OP, mine, and others points are that we haven't been able to develop high level draft picks, despite recruiting tons of the same Florida kids that ARE becoming first rounders elsewhere.

Allen Hurns went from a solid 3 star recruit, to a solid senior player. Every coach at every school has kids who do this.

Btw most draft analysis' issues with Hurns are his lack of polish, mediocre route running, sub par blocking, and his lack of strength. His natural abilities are actually praised, even if not elite. If the kid had a real WR coach and a legit strength program he probably gets drafted higher.

 

[DaU83]

I think GOlden got the most we could get out of the talent we had, those guys don't have a higher ceiling we weren't able to reach... rodgers, highsmith, etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.... i don't think we'll see any of those guys go on to be studs in the NFL.

 

[pbcup]

For the 10th time a player "getting better" isn't what is being discussed.

The OP, mine, and others points are that we haven't been able to develop high level draft picks, despite recruiting tons of the same Florida kids that ARE becoming first rounders elsewhere.

Allen Hurns went from a solid 3 star recruit, to a solid senior player. Every coach at every school has kids who do this.

Btw most draft analysis' issues with Hurns are his lack of polish, mediocre route running, sub par blocking, and his lack of strength. His natural abilities are actually praised, even if not elite. If the kid had a real WR coach and a legit strength program he probably gets drafted higher.

Not all Florida kids are the same. It's not just coaching staff developing, but recruiting driven players that are going to put in the extra effort on their own and establishing a culture where kids come in and want to put in that work because they see that from the upperclassmen. People point to Butch's development because he brought in some lower rated players. He brought in the right lower rated players that had the athleticism to build on and the chip on their shoulder and drive to become better. Others saw there hard work and followed developing the proper culture for development. We lost that under Coker and Shannon. I think Golden is starting to get that back with the 2012 and 2013 classes, driven kids that are putting in the necessary extra work.

Not what I'm seeing on Hurns. At the combine he had an average 40, Broad Jump and Bench, below average vertical and terrible 20 yd shuttle and 3 cone drill for the position. From ESPNs profile..."Above-average route runner and shows some savvy within initial stem. Average-to-below average suddenness and burst out of underneath lateral cuts."

 

[OBLIVION]

If you don't think Linder and Hurns developed, there's no point in even discussing this. Your argument is weak on so many points. First of all, you're assuming that draft status equals development. Did Ken Dorsey develop? Yeah, thought so.

Hurns is going to be a heck of a receiver for whoever drafts him. Very sure handed, runs excellent routes. Could be a Wes Welker type player (who was also undrafted). I'm not sure that Linder's ceiling was ever that high (as in a first round talent). He was excellent for us, which is what we needed. I'd consider that development, unlike Henderson -- who should have been a first round talent that was not developed for whatever reason people want to attribute that.

Come on man.

That is a horrible example. Dorsey was great at the college level, but he did not have an arm to be drafted higher than what he was. He was fortunate to get drafted period. If he had Morris arm he would have been at least a 2nd day pick.

Then on top of that, your pitching a guy that played when dudes were getting developed.

How is it a horrible example? It's an example of a guy who developed, but wasn't drafted high. The porster was trying to say that draft status correlates with how well a player has developed.

Dorsey not getting drafted high. Was more to do with his physical skill set not be good enough. You do have to posses some physical skills to go with that heart.

Yeah, but that wasn't the point of the comment. This is the difficulty with people interjecting into a conversation without understanding it (ie all up in the kool aid and don't even know the flavor).

You're point of the comment. Was an attempt to be slick. Why didn't you use the Reed example? Well it wouldn't have fit you're brew of kool aid.

Dorsey was developed to the limits. Just like every other guy in that era and his drawback to not being drafted high. Was due to his lack of physical talent at the position. In college, he pushed the envelop to what he could do and he pulled it off nicely. He was a finalist and an award winning QB. A guy that holds many records at this school.

There are no players from this program. That are eligible in this current draft class. That meet the Dorsey criteria.

It is sad that you had too reach that far back.

 

[Dghustla]

70% What Al inherited
30% lack of development

Case in point: Green, Highsmith and some other SRs could be granted eligibility up to 6 years and never be NFL caliber talent.
Henderson who if you recall this point 4 years ago was suppose to be the consensus #1 overall pick in last years draft. turned out to be a lazy pot head. Golden gave this guy chance after chance.

Ray Ray Armstrong another guy who was thought to be a sure fire first rounder. just couldn't seem to get up to the speed of the college game and lacked the maturity it took to be successful enough to be considered a 1st round pick.

Now a guy like Linder who came in as a heralded tackle, considered to be a hard worker, mature & responsible low risk player is leaving as a 3rd round guard that is really scary to me.

We will really know how well golden has developed these guys next year when Eric Flowers becomes draft eligible this guy has been considered to be 1st round talent since his first day on campus. If he doesn't declare and doesn't go in the 1st round then I will say Al is not developing talent.

Some thing of note that ppl have forgotten is that before Al came here there was no workout or nutrition plan. That is a big deal! A majority of these guys are drafted based on their physical tools a lot of the players who were here when Al took-over had lost critical years in their physical development.

 

[JHallCanes]

Did Al inherit that big of a greasefire from Blandy or is the staff just failing to develop talent?

Both.

Lock thread

 

[Paranos]

Having a LB Corp running 4.75 sec 40yd times is very concerning interms of team speed. The LB Corp should avg 4.5 with the slowest in running around 4.6. This is why over the last few years the defense has been getting out run for big gains. Hopefully these kids will work on their speed over the summer break. Because the Louisville game will expose that lack of foot speed in a hurry. The old school defenses had LB corps running on avg in the 4.4 range, they were lighter in weight but stronger.

OP very good write up of the evenings events.

Go Canes

 

[Dwinstitles]

We r not getting the talent n e more...... stacy coley 4 example is a beast at n e school. Miami location is killing itself now because we r getting raided year in n out. Rudolph cook lane tv n jc r high picks most likely n that my friend is what makes u have high draft picks, its also the difference in us being dominant or just ok. Its been happening 4 ten years n still till present day it hasnt been fixed n we wont b back to dominance until we have a top to bottom staff that breaths football. Im talking president ceo boosters etc. until we become dedicated than we stay where we r. This is my opinion based on watching numerous years of recruiting, develope my *** sean taylor vilma reed dre etc all those guys r beasts with ne uniform. N I belive we would not land those classes of 98 99 00 01 if it were today n sometimes n imm ore leanig toward we will never back because the time 2014 n top to bottom leadership.

 

[U Know]

Since our last first round pick...
Kelvin Benjamin is the first FSU wide reciever to get drafted since 2007. That means Chase Ford has more yds/receptions than any FSU reciever or tight end, since 2007.
FSU has had 1 RB drafted since 2007.
Since 2008, our drafted and or free agent players have played and started more NFL games than FSU drafted players.

Do FSU have a worst development problem than we do? Just curious...

 

[Gatorhater]

Did Al inherit that big of a greasefire from Blandy or is the staff just failing to develop talent?

Both.

Add in the administration's complete failure to even try to field a worthy team, and you have it in a nutshell. No one thing can destroy what we were except the top leader that makes the rules and picks the underlings.

 

[JHallCanes]

We r not getting the talent n e more...... stacy coley 4 example is a beast at n e school. Miami location is killing itself now because we r getting raided year in n out. Rudolph cook lane tv n jc r high picks most likely n that my friend is what makes u have high draft picks, its also the difference in us being dominant or just ok. Its been happening 4 ten years n still till present day it hasnt been fixed n we wont b back to dominance until we have a top to bottom staff that breaths football. Im talking president ceo boosters etc. until we become dedicated than we stay where we r. This is my opinion based on watching numerous years of recruiting, develope my *** sean taylor vilma reed dre etc all those guys r beasts with ne uniform. N I belive we would not land those classes of 98 99 00 01 if it were today n sometimes n imm ore leanig toward we will never back because the time 2014 n top to bottom leadership.

reading this makes me want to punch you in the face

 

[NorthFlaCane]

I didn't read this thread but Golden's first real class just ended their sophomore year.

 

[Gatorhater]

Since our last first round pick...
Kelvin Benjamin is the first FSU wide reciever to get drafted since 2007. That means Chase Ford has more yds/receptions than any FSU reciever or tight end, since 2007.
FSU has had 1 RB drafted since 2007.
Since 2008, our drafted and or free agent players have played and started more NFL games than FSU drafted players.

Do FSU have a worst development problem than we do? Just curious...

FSU has always sucked out hind ****y. They always had higher rated recruiting classes so I guess they have always been even worse at development. They choke 20 times to every one success, but they have always been a press darling so it is excused. Bobby had two NCs is what 30 years? We had three different coaches have NCs during his reign, and one of them won two. In Tally he was made a Saint and gave him a statue. If he was at THE U, we would have hung his dummy and canned his rear.

Yes, FSU has a worst development problem than we do. Players has always gotten away with cheating, stealing and now raping. Those have never been high on NFL draft traits. They was the biggest underachievers in sports. If we had a decent QB last year, we win the game in Tally and they have another Miami pity story for their sad little scrapbook. Remember, it has been longer since they won and NC than it has us and they FINALLY won their third. Even the sad gator have three. Heck, Saban did that in 5 years. Either Al beats them this year, or Chud begins the next era of Cane dominance next year.

 

[M3N]

Way too many variables and comparisons...

Personally I think AG and staff have gotten a ton out of our lowly rated players. That 2009/2010 class were 2 of the worst signing classes in history at UM! But you also have to account that these kids were brought in to play a completely different system. Also it was the country club around here-- kids didn't want it. Complete culture cleanse for AG.

Guys that should of never been offered:

2009: Green, Highsmith, Wheeler, James, Plein, Robinson, Sanders

2010: Barton, Brown, Cain, Bunche, Cleveland, Cornelius, Davis, Feliciano, Ford, Gaines, Hall, Hurns, McDermott, Morris, Nelson, Payne, Perry, Rogers, Tallman, Walford, Williams.

Those are guys just off the top of head!! Not even Saban could develope these kids above!

Out of those kids there are only a handful who would of been in the 3 deep on a solid Canes team!

2009: Green and Mike James were nobody's!!!!! Green, who nobody wanted had a very respectable career here during his last 2 seasons. Hate to knock him, but his athletic ability is FCS caliber. Mike James a guy who is a person favorite of mine is no were near a Miami caliber back! Not even close. His best offer besides us was UCONN and Troy!! He had a very respectable carear here.

2010: I'm not even gonna focus on the guys who didn't cut it because either they were booted or transferred. 98% of that class didn't even deserve to be on the practice squad!

Feliciano, who nobody wanted was offered a scholarship last minute has been one of our best OL under AGs staff.

Gaines: a nobody from NY state, who had maybe one offer (buffalo) had been a 3 year starter.

Hagens: who had less then 5 offers. 4 year starter for us and was an exceptional FB!

Hurns: who's best offer was PITT has started all 4 years! Probably out best blocking WR in the past decade. Also had one of the best season statistically in UM history!

McDermott: a 260 lb center who's best offer was USF has been our starting center for what 3 seasons?

Morris: who's best offer was Central Michigan has start/played since his freshman year! Although erratic, he had a very nice Jr. Season.

Clive: best offer was FIU. played one season of HS FB. A basketball player! Has started 3 season and has been our best TE in a decade!

Again, no offense to the kids who were developed nicely by the current staff, but they wouldn't even crack a Miami 3 deep or even have a scholarship!

AG was dealt one of the worst rosters I've ever seen!! You can't make chicken salad with chicken ****! Then you add the NCAA crap into the mix!

2011: Dorsett, Perryman, Chickillo, Crawford, Scott. Have all played very well for us. AG put this class together in 11 days!

Personally for me and many other logical cane fans-- this is the year to really see how the players are developing. AGs first real class (2012) are entering their JR. season.

Just for *****- go back and look at the talent level we brought in from 2007-2011. And yes there are kids from the 07 class to play for AG!

A little stat tid bit for y'all:

Between 2008-2012

We signed: 134 players.
Of those 134--- 66 players either; never made it to campus, transfered, booted, or never contributed!
That equates to 49% !!!!!

Although some of that percentage is from AGs 2012 class, the majority of is from Randy. People don't trully understand the ****** hole Randy left us in. Butch with 30 scholarship reductions had a better roster.

 

[M3N]

I didn't read this thread but Golden's first real class just ended their sophomore year.

exactly...