3-4 question, is this just a crazy talk?

[fivecent]

Does anyone know if any teams running a 3-4 plays 2-gap at the nose and then 1-gaps both end (keeping in mind that ends don't have to be as big to 1-gap)? And does that even make any football sense? I ask because to my untrained mind it seems that with the right players, one could create a truly awesome defense that gets pressure with 3 sometimes 4, stops the run and and have 7 or 8 guys in coverage all at the same time. Is that just crazy talk, becuase in 2 years, if such a defense makes sense, I think we might have the right guys:

WDE- Jackson, Muhammed,

NT- Wyche, Huertelou, Jenkins

SDE- Thomas, Moten


Jack- Harris, Smith

Will- Grace, Mccray

Mike- Young,

Sam- Figueroa, Owens


Feel free to ridicule me if this is just crazy talk, I got my big boy pants on.

 

[Paranos]

Watch these videos and you will have a better understanding of the 1 Gap vs 2 Gap 3-4 scheme.

[video=youtube_share;ID84WwJO-60]http://youtu.be/ID84WwJO-60[/video]
[video=youtube_share;EBlB0ZsfCMU]http://youtu.be/EBlB0ZsfCMU[/video]
[video=youtube_share;eyoZwPSdXyw]http://youtu.be/eyoZwPSdXyw[/video]
[video=youtube_share;PvfL7Yrvq7U]http://youtu.be/PvfL7Yrvq7U[/video]

 

[ghost2]

Not crazy talk at all - in fact, I think that's kinda what we're going for here, particularly on passing downs. Nice find BTW, Paranos!

 

[cane since birth]

The steelers do it

 

[Cash]

First off we typically do not run a standard 3-4 front. We more often then not run a 5 man front or 50 front. And to answer your question no in a 50 we do not 2 gap. We single gap and slant 50 eagle strong or weak depending on the look. Sometimes our 4- 3 isn't actually a 4-3. We like to bring up a OLB last second to the line. You have to look at the alignment of the NT. He's usually in either a 0 tech or shaded almost at a 1 tech. If we are lined up in a 4-3 then we're aligned in a 3 tech and 1 tech.

 

[Sabetta]

It's not something that would be called frequently. If you are run blitzing, slanting or stunting it's common. As far as doing it every down it wouldn't work because you'd have empty run fits/empty gaps (i know, it looks like this is happening Already).

One gap 3-4 defenses are common. The cowboys ran it with their undersized nose #90 I think and so does Houston. When the Bills were in a 5 man front last year they ran a ton of it with Kyle Williams and Dareus. Teams like the Pats (when wolfork is healthy) and the 49ers are 2 gap.

 

[BigDikCane]

Corch Paul Johnson said only a few teams run our scheme in college and it doesn't work...

 

[Cash]

Corch Paul Johnson said only a few teams run our scheme in college and it doesn't work...

Paul Johnson is a f'ing moron and we were at the time attempting to run a 2 gap scheme which was absolute bull**** with the personnel we had. A 50 is actually a pretty good base defense and you can do a lot out of it. Great against spread teams.

 

[fivecent]

My question wasn't simply about 1-gap vs 2-gap, but rather about the sense of combining a 2-gap nose with both DEs 1-gapping. But if we are not doing a 3-4 anymore but instead 50, I guess the point might be moot.

thanks for being gentle.

 

[Supercane85]

First off we typically do not run a standard 3-4 front. We more often then not run a 5 man front or 50 front. And to answer your question no in a 50 we do not 2 gap. We single gap and slant 50 eagle strong or weak depending on the look. Sometimes our 4- 3 isn't actually a 4-3. We like to bring up a OLB last second to the line. You have to look at the alignment of the NT. He's usually in either a 0 tech or shaded almost at a 1 tech. If we are lined up in a 4-3 then we're aligned in a 3 tech and 1 tech.

We do not run a 50 and never have

You went old school..lol

 

[Cane Dynasty]

First off we typically do not run a standard 3-4 front. We more often then not run a 5 man front or 50 front. And to answer your question no in a 50 we do not 2 gap. We single gap and slant 50 eagle strong or weak depending on the look. Sometimes our 4- 3 isn't actually a 4-3. We like to bring up a OLB last second to the line. You have to look at the alignment of the NT. He's usually in either a 0 tech or shaded almost at a 1 tech. If we are lined up in a 4-3 then we're aligned in a 3 tech and 1 tech.

We do not run a 50 and never have

You went old school..lol

Oh snap! This is bout to get GOOD!

 

[BigDikCane]

Corch Paul Johnson said only a few teams run our scheme in college and it doesn't work...

Paul Johnson is a f'ing moron and we were at the time attempting to run a 2 gap scheme which was absolute bull**** with the personnel we had. A 50 is actually a pretty good base defense and you can do a lot out of it. Great against spread teams.

But Golden learned this bull**** scheme under Groh...


"Brilliant tactician," Golden said of Groh. "The hardest worker I’ve ever been around. Just a ball coach, and he loves that. If you said what do you want to be remembered as, I would say that he was tough, great tactician, a football guy, a football coach, and certainly a guy who has spawned a lot of other coaches. If you just look around, [current Virginia coach Mike London] or myself. There were some other guys that were on that staff, Ron Prince, and Danny Rocco and the list goes on that were on that staff that went on to have great careers.

"I learned more football from him in five years than I have in the rest of my career. He taught me the 3-4, and the flexibility of it. He taught me a lot about football, no question."

Golden said while he knows Groh's system well, he expects the veteran coach to throw in a few wrinkles -- like he always does. "The one thing about Al is he's a game plan guy," Golden said of Groh on Hurricane Hotline. "We'll see something different in every game.

"There are some core things you see week in and week out -- odd defense, Cover 2. You're going to see that. What drives him crazy are free access throws, hitches, all those things a lot of teams give up. He's not going to let you do that. He doesn't want to get beat for explosive plays. Something on third down is also always different. We've watched all the third downs and Cover 2s for Georgia Tech in the last two years. There's always a game plan on third down for Al."

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umia...ensive-coordinator-al-groh.html#storylink=cpy

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now this is what Paul had to say about Groh and that bullshyt scheme.. Doesn't this sound like us right now?


On Monday, the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets held a press conference to announce the firing of Al Groh, the defensive coordinator since 2010.

Groh's defense has been struggling mightily thus far in 2012, ranking 89th in points allowed (30.2) and 90th in yards allowed with 431 per contest. Coach Paul Johnson explained why he felt it was time for a change, per From The Rumble Seat:

"This morning, I took some time and watched the game tape and went over it. There's no question Al knows defense, but the communication part wasn't transcending to the field. Lots of errors, struggles getting lined up, errors that kept repeating themselves.:eekeyes: As I said a couple weeks ago, I don't think he forgot everything he knows about defense."

Johnson went on to talk about the future of the defense, saying that multiple coaches will be involved.

"Charles Kelly will probably run meetings, Andy McCollum will coach inside linebackers, Dave Walkosky will coach the defensive line, Joe Speed will coach the outside linebackers."

Groh has plenty of experience, once the coach of the New York Jets and more recently, the Virginia Cavaliers. However, Johnson felt it was time to move on.

"Al's very smart. The problem was what was in Al's head just wasn't transcending on the field."
TWEET (4)

 

[niner]

Corch Paul Johnson said only a few teams run our scheme in college and it doesn't work...

Paul Johnson is a f'ing moron and we were at the time attempting to run a 2 gap scheme which was absolute bull**** with the personnel we had. A 50 is actually a pretty good base defense and you can do a lot out of it. Great against spread teams.

But Golden learned this bull**** scheme under Groh...


"Brilliant tactician," Golden said of Groh. "The hardest worker I’ve ever been around. Just a ball coach, and he loves that. If you said what do you want to be remembered as, I would say that he was tough, great tactician, a football guy, a football coach, and certainly a guy who has spawned a lot of other coaches. If you just look around, [current Virginia coach Mike London] or myself. There were some other guys that were on that staff, Ron Prince, and Danny Rocco and the list goes on that were on that staff that went on to have great careers.

"I learned more football from him in five years than I have in the rest of my career. He taught me the 3-4, and the flexibility of it. He taught me a lot about football, no question."

Golden said while he knows Groh's system well, he expects the veteran coach to throw in a few wrinkles -- like he always does. "The one thing about Al is he's a game plan guy," Golden said of Groh on Hurricane Hotline. "We'll see something different in every game.

"There are some core things you see week in and week out -- odd defense, Cover 2. You're going to see that. What drives him crazy are free access throws, hitches, all those things a lot of teams give up. He's not going to let you do that. He doesn't want to get beat for explosive plays. Something on third down is also always different. We've watched all the third downs and Cover 2s for Georgia Tech in the last two years. There's always a game plan on third down for Al."

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/umia...ensive-coordinator-al-groh.html#storylink=cpy

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now this is what Paul had to say about Groh and that bullshyt scheme.. Doesn't this sound like us right now?


On Monday, the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets held a press conference to announce the firing of Al Groh, the defensive coordinator since 2010.

Groh's defense has been struggling mightily thus far in 2012, ranking 89th in points allowed (30.2) and 90th in yards allowed with 431 per contest. Coach Paul Johnson explained why he felt it was time for a change, per From The Rumble Seat:

"This morning, I took some time and watched the game tape and went over it. There's no question Al knows defense, but the communication part wasn't transcending to the field. Lots of errors, struggles getting lined up, errors that kept repeating themselves.:eekeyes: As I said a couple weeks ago, I don't think he forgot everything he knows about defense."

Johnson went on to talk about the future of the defense, saying that multiple coaches will be involved.

"Charles Kelly will probably run meetings, Andy McCollum will coach inside linebackers, Dave Walkosky will coach the defensive line, Joe Speed will coach the outside linebackers."

Groh has plenty of experience, once the coach of the New York Jets and more recently, the Virginia Cavaliers. However, Johnson felt it was time to move on.

"Al's very smart. The problem was what was in Al's head just wasn't transcending on the field."
TWEET (4)

He needs Golden to run it, lol:

"From 2001 to 2004, the Cavaliers' defense improved under Golden's tutelage, ranking 108th in total defense in his first year to ranking 18th in total defense in 2004. In the same time period, Virginia's scoring defense went from 74th in the nation (27.6 ppg) to 17th (17.7 ppg) utilizing Golden's scheme."

 

[Cane Dynasty]

Knowing and teaching are two completely different animals.

Al appears to be a good teacher but he can't HC and DC at the same time.

Unfortunately he has cast his lot with a man that reportedly has vast amounts of knowledge but zero ability to teach.

 

[Cash]

BDC you live & learn is all one can hope for...

 

[umhurricano]

Oregon's defense looked a lot like ours but their ends were a lot faster. What those videos left me wondering is what happens on running downs?

 

[Heals85]

Oregon's defense looked a lot like ours but their ends were a lot faster. What those videos left me wondering is what happens on running downs?

And there is the rub because I have confidence in our ends with AQM, McCord, Kamalu, Chad Thomas later in the year and Chick (to some extent) but without a true dominant NT we will be beaten up the gut constantly.

 

[HurricaneVision]

Oregon's ends in those video's are night and day with ours in the speed department. There were four or five times where guys had massive amounts of real estate to run to and were tackled by the tip of their shoes. With Green and Chick chasing those same plays they pop out the back and run for 20-30 yards at least.

It's easy to see the results and ignore the steps that occurred to get there, but the bottom line is our defensive line has been so poor in all facets (speed, COD, depth, strength, size) that either scheme wouldn't work for us to acceptable levels. We could not have had success one gapping with our DL. Two gapping obviously didn't work to an acceptable level, but at least allowed for a slow death. When teams made mistakes, we were successful. When they executed, they curb stomped us.

The scheme really is more soft in the back 7 and other than dropping slow DL into coverage far too often, we can make this scheme work with improved DL play. Not my personal style that I'd like to see, but it can work with the proper personnel.

 

[FrancisSawyer]

First off we typically do not run a standard 3-4 front. We more often then not run a 5 man front or 50 front. And to answer your question no in a 50 we do not 2 gap. We single gap and slant 50 eagle strong or weak depending on the look. Sometimes our 4- 3 isn't actually a 4-3. We like to bring up a OLB last second to the line. You have to look at the alignment of the NT. He's usually in either a 0 tech or shaded almost at a 1 tech. If we are lined up in a 4-3 then we're aligned in a 3 tech and 1 tech.

We do not run a 50 and never have

You went old school..lol

So what exactly do we run?

 

[Cash]

First off we typically do not run a standard 3-4 front. We more often then not run a 5 man front or 50 front. And to answer your question no in a 50 we do not 2 gap. We single gap and slant 50 eagle strong or weak depending on the look. Sometimes our 4- 3 isn't actually a 4-3. We like to bring up a OLB last second to the line. You have to look at the alignment of the NT. He's usually in either a 0 tech or shaded almost at a 1 tech. If we are lined up in a 4-3 then we're aligned in a 3 tech and 1 tech.

We do not run a 50 and never have

You went old school..lol

So what exactly do we run?

He's wrong, we do run a 50 but we are a multiple front defense

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