forums

2022 So. Fla DL class is STACKED

Coach Macho said:
I've noticed that you're a huge coach apologist.

Let's take your pom-poms off and think logically for a second.

You think THIS staff deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to recruiting and evaluation?
You see allllllll these South Florida kids balling throughout college football...
Kids that Miami didn't even recruit...
And you STILL trust the staff at all costs?

And then you mock the opinions of the "online scouts" on here, but if you've been around the message board for a while you'll realize that some of OUR EVALUATIONS have turned out better than Miami's!
I, for one, didn't want Holley. He was pedestrian in high school. There was a better DT locally that we chose not to recruit. So far I've been right, as the kid who I preferred has started his career out on a much better trajectory.

So yes, sometimes the board does know better about kids. Crazy ****, ain't it?
Click to expand...
Ok coach got this......that guy loves the coaches no .after who we hire. U can't reason with him and he will never admit defeat
 
Advertisement
Dwinstitles said:
Easy answer they are drones and anyone we recruit they watch the highlights and convince themselves that the prospect is elite. It's what they do with every recruit. They will blame development...so that means my old *** can get recruited and they will blame the development.....they won't say I sucked from jump but yea I suck but I apparently got offered by UM lol
Click to expand...
This is exactly right.

We’ve evolved a theory where one very important thing (evaluations) that’s going wrong can’t be fixed because everyone blames the consequences of the flaw on something else (development). It’s an ‘unfalsifiable‘ theory, because the worse we evaluate, the more convinced people will be that our development is to blame.
 
Ethnicsands said:
This is exactly right.

We’ve evolved a theory where one very important thing (evaluations) that’s going wrong can’t be fixed because everyone blames the consequences of the flaw on something else (development). It’s an ‘unfalsifiable‘ theory, because the worse we evaluate, the more convinced people will be that our development is to blame.
Click to expand...
Fans been wrong for years. Its always been we are picking the wrong players to recruit. I believe u are what you are.....it takes a special coach like Saban or Butch to see a kid in HS and know what they will be three years later. Sometimes it's easy to see but when it's hard to see those two guys are the best at it. We have been epically bad at it...on top of that when we are good at it Juedy Cooper Cook etc we can't close the deal.
 
In the spirit of these discussions, here’s my cfb glossary in a nutshell:

Evaluations are who you get. Every kid has an uncertainty factor (multiple, really). You find out fast what you got, even if it’s not popular to admit it. [Doesn’t mean you get results fast, because depending on situation and position, kids have to develop and mature. But the staff generally knows (or should) which ones are good evals and which ones are head scratchers relatively quickly.] Some kids are on the fairway/in the guardrails, some aren’t. To be reliably good at evals at scale, over time, you need instinct, but much more than that. You need criteria (what you’re looking for by kid & position), information (on kids), resources to get the information you need, and a process to assess and reassess as facts change.

Recruiting is how you get who you get. The process of communications, marketing and sales that allows you to optimize your ICs based on your needs, priorities and evaluations. Scouring all options, also. HS, JUCOs, transfers, PWOs.... Recruiting effectively in this age is a resource-intensive activity. Good processes matter.

Roster management is really important and not discussed enough imo. Think depth, experience, leadership, balance, using all your scholarships, using your ICs effectively, position groups, spacing vs. bunching up, retaining draft-eligible kids, filling holes with transfers, etc. It sounds obvious but this program operated well below 85 recruited kids on scholarship for most of the past decade. That’s just one aspect of roster management but it should be table stakes.

Culture is the guardrails. It helps keep the kids you get on the road/fairway, moving ahead.

Development is how you improve what you got. It is a mix of skills, S&C, gaining experience and teaching. It helps the kids who were good evals to progress down the path. It isn’t a formula but processes and data will help improve it, just like most other activities in life that require knowledge transfer, repetition and multiple parties to work together.

Coaching is really scheme, game planning and play calling - and building a staff that is aligned and works well together. Depending on situation, they can make kids look better or worse than their reality. Put kids in position to succeed and they’ll look developed. Don’t and they won’t. But coaching doesn’t generally fool the nfl. They can find kids from wherever with potential, and usually see through kids from big name places who benefitted from the spotlight but don’t have what it takes. Coaching requires certain human traits, but it certainly can look better with infrastructure, as Alabama’s analysts demonstrate. There’s a lot of data analytics that goes on beneath the surface there and it doesn’t require a former nfl HC to make an impact with it.

Motivation is the psychology of game-day preparation, I guess. The unexplainable ‘did they come out hungry and play to the end or come out flat’?

Pretty much all the above other than culture and motivation requires infrastructure or benefits from it. Staff quality and alignment (head coach aside) is probably also a bigger and more important issue than most folks appreciate. Hard to get development or culture or motivation or in-game adjustments without the whole staff working well together.

@DMoney; @LuCane; @Dwinstitles; @Coach Macho; @gogeta4
 
Advertisement
Dwinstitles said:
Fans been wrong for years. Its always been we are picking the wrong players to recruit. I believe u are what you are.....it takes a special coach like Saban or Butch to see a kid in HS and know what they will be three years later. Sometimes it's easy to see but when it's hard to see those two guys are the best at it. We have been epically bad at it...on top of that when we are good at it Juedy Cooper Cook etc we can't close the deal.
Click to expand...
Yep but special coaches aside, our staffs over the past 2 decades have generally been bad at this. I don’t know all that they have done or not, but you can see the shape of most things in life by identifying the reverberations. Sonar does that. MRIs do. Look at our evals over time and IMO the picture becomes clear.

We have had a mix of a bad understanding of what personal traits really matter and a bias away from some traits or towards others that are counter-productive. If you don’t know what you’re looking for (or worse, are looking for fools gold rather than the real thing), you’re lost before you start. Butch may have had a special ability to see it, but I expect he could tell you in words some of what he was looking for. We don’t just lack the people who can see it. We seem to lack enough of a view on what to look for.

In addition, we seem to have been consistently bad at information collection and assimilation. The number of times the staff has - according to known insiders - been surprised by kids and events that were ‘commin knowledge’ among the fanbase is beyond explanation. The second to last thing a staff should do is take its guidance from fans. But the last thing a staff should do is ignore widely known facts because they fancy themselves smarter than fans. This is just an example - there are plenty of places to learn info if you’re good at it. We typically have inexperienced coaches without long relationship trees. That hurts in this area.

Finally, our eval processes seem weak and amateurish. I would bet a lot that the Alabama / Clemson model is a lot more data driven and structured than ours is.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Yep but special coaches aside, our staffs over the past 2 decades have generally been bad at this. I don’t know all that they have done or not, but you can see the shape of most things in life by identifying the reverberations. Sonar does that. MRIs do. Look at our evals over time and IMO the picture becomes clear.

We have had a mix of a bad understanding of what personal traits really matter and a bias away from some traits or towards others that are counter-productive. If you don’t know what you’re looking for (or worse, are looking for fools gold rather than the real thing), you’re lost before you start. Butch may have had a special ability to see it, but I expect he could tell you in words some of what he was looking for. We don’t just lack the people who can see it. We seem to lack enough of a view on what to look for.

In addition, we seem to have been consistently bad at information collection and assimilation. The number of times the staff has - according to known insiders - been surprised by kids and events that were ‘commin knowledge’ among the fanbase is beyond explanation. The second to last thing a staff should do is take its guidance from fans. But the last thing a staff should do is ignore widely known facts because they fancy themselves smarter than fans. This is just an example - there are plenty of places to learn info if you’re good at it. We typically have inexperienced coaches without long relationship trees. That hurts in this area.

Finally, our eval processes seem weak and amateurish. I would bet a lot that the Alabama / Clemson model is a lot more data driven and structured than ours is.
Click to expand...
You know this doesn't relate or maybe it does. But remember Rolle from the tale of four trailer......mcgahee gore portis etc. Rolle was surprised at what But h was bringing in cause his response was wow this is what we bringing in? Butch hit on most players we need a HC that can do the same. Once we find that guy that can close the deal as well it's a wrap we will be back. The tricky part is finding that guy.

I love the class coming in now but how many times have I loved the class the last 15 years and they sucked. I don't trust us and our evals I just can't trust us and I'm expecting some guys not to pan out. All the incoming linebackers I don't like except Chase that's it. That's not good enough imo
 
Advertisement
RVACane said:
You spam the board with it dude but keep telling yourself it’s something else.

I’ve got a better idea... why don’t you talk about the subject matter of the thread instead of a derail?
Click to expand...

This thread has devolved into pages of never ending self gratification wrapped around "evals bro".
 
Go Canes!! said:
This thread has devolved into pages of never ending self gratification wrapped around "evals bro".
Click to expand...
I get that you don’t like the opinions of Macho and others on our DL recruiting but they’re talking football with opinions and reasons - what were you doing when you came in here like that? Trying to stir it up. Stick to the topic.
 
Advertisement
RVACane said:
I get that you don’t like the opinions of Macho and others on our DL recruiting but they’re talking football with opinions and reasons - what were you doing when you came in here like that? Trying to stir it up.
Click to expand...

I like his opinions just fine. I posted what I did for the reason I just stated.
 
Advertisement
Go Canes!! said:
This thread has devolved into pages of never ending self gratification wrapped around "evals bro".
Click to expand...
Why are u mad about it? Well I don't know if your mad but it seems like by what u wrote it's bothering u. These are legit concerns we want fixed so we can get back to winning
 
Advertisement
Back
Top