1999 Era Recruiting vs Today (Derailed Maason Smith thread)

Just came in to say..Andre Johnson was like the biggest thing in south florida..I was a 9th grader I believe and he and Kevin Beard were the biggest things and the first time I even heard of "recruiting" to follow it as my teammate was a national all American and use to.log on to a website called Rivals and introduced me. That previous list the only sleeper was Sean Taylor and he was only a late bloomer not a true sleeper as the Gators were ina war with us for him..and he was not low key at all locally just played small school ball at Gulliver.
That's crazy you just said they weren't sleepers on that list. Most of them didn't even have set positions when they got here. Warren was a ****** tight end for gods sake & an undersized one at that. Sean most people wanted as a rb & just cause several schools wanted as well and could evaluate as well doesn't mysteriously make them elite national recruits. The only one that even blew up late was dre. Rankings aren't a new process at all. Y'all wanna talk about 24/7 like that's some intricate thing. Rankings have been around for ever. That's how dre started the season ranked in the 50s nationally as a wr & finished top 5. Hed tell you himself, playoffs & larry bluestein got him up there. But feel free to with none of those kids were sleepers. Cracked me up y'all wanna talk about dre but leave all the rest out. Maybe y'all wanna say how sean had 53 touchdowns his senior year,or frank 2k plus yards, ed was all district,Kellen was a great wr in San Diego. Lol let's keep changing the narrative. An elite recruits isn't someone who has some offers. He's someone who's top 3 at his position and can go anywhere in the country. Y'all just wanna say they can go anywhere. But now I'm being told about myself too apparently 🤣...
 
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But bruh..wouldn’t you admit that recruiting exposure is wayyyy different now than it was back then..we all understand what your saying. And by historical account your correct on plenty of guys. But that ain’t a winning formula today. Yes you have to evaluate. But in 2020 If your evaluation process does not include check marks next to majority of the blue chips in your area, or on your board in general then you likely need to reassess your formula...or you gunna be out here hoping to hit on a LaDarius Gunter at every position alla Al Golden
No one's saying you don't offer blue chips. I told yall absolutely you right and that works at the football factories. We ain't never been that though. Only difference in recruiting from now to then is your coaching network was far more important & hence far more accurate. You did your homework and made sure kids passed the tests necessary. Now you target kids almost exclusively based off of social media platforms first and foremost and then develop relationships from there. & These platforms have been available forever now. From rivals to scout etc. Only things relatively new are espn & 24/7 who are almost all exclusively owned by the same exact group of people & in 24/7 case simply accumulate rankings based on dudes who have lil business sounding off in the first place. It's a problem setting up your targets based upon the rankings projected by Tom **** & harry. Atleast in those days you had lugenbill, bluestein & dudes who did nothing but that year around. Need on those dudes evals our kids we were signing was consistently made up of sleepers.
 
I camped at Um with Sean Taylor.

He went to killian before Gulliver.

His trajectory was likely similar to Greg Rousseau. No one really recruited Gulliver, they played sh-t comp ..essentially um was hiding him there. But dude was destroying things and breaking records and cat got out the bag about midway through sr. Season. UF wanted him bad.

Sean highlights would be on channel 7 every Friday night locally.

The rb your speaking on went to Uga from Marianna.
So then why you ain't straightening him? Sean god bless the dead,went to killian & transferred out because of his old boy when he wasn't starting or **** near playing period at killian. Channel 7 showed his highlights also cause every Friday night they had a high school football sports segment. Gulliver played everyone else 2a schools played which always included several 5a schools yearly. Sean is my brother and I love him like my own blood. But y'all please just stop with this. Only difference off that list now to then is sean would've been a 5 star. All the rest nowhere close.
 
So then why you ain't straightening him? Sean god bless the dead,went to killian & transferred out because of his old boy when he wasn't starting or **** near playing period at killian. Channel 7 showed his highlights also cause every Friday night they had a high school football sports segment. Gulliver played everyone else 2a schools played which always included several 5a schools yearly. Sean is my brother and I love him like my own blood. But y'all please just stop with this. Only difference off that list now to then is sean would've been a 5 star. All the rest nowhere close.
More Facts...
 
So then why you ain't straightening him? Sean god bless the dead,went to killian & transferred out because of his old boy when he wasn't starting or **** near playing period at killian. Channel 7 showed his highlights also cause every Friday night they had a high school football sports segment. Gulliver played everyone else 2a schools played which always included several 5a schools yearly. Sean is my brother and I love him like my own blood. But y'all please just stop with this. Only difference off that list now to then is sean would've been a 5 star. All the rest nowhere close.
@dsddcane I had this exact conversation with Pete yrs ago...You know and I know Pete stayed on top of things...
 
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You’re just making **** up. He was a major national recruit going into his senior year. Everyone knew about him and wanted him, including FSU, UF, USC, and Tennessee. That UM class was full of elite recruits who would’ve been 5*s or high 4*s today. And following our first ‘ship, with the exception of the probations years, Miami regularly signed elite recruits for two decades straight.

The foundation of our modern “history” and run of dominance was established, in substantial part, by elite recruits, starting with Brown, Highsmith, Bratton, Stubbs, Rusty, and from there the list goes on...Barrow, Armstead, K. Williams, etc etc
Lol at making sh*t up....smfh
 
Everyone hated schiano. Like really hated him. So while he would've been a better option he also wouldn't have been an option. He was butch's guy and what these individuals on here don't like to acknowledge is butch was basically ran out of town. Doubt he would've been able to get schiano that job as board would've seen it as a favor to butch.
I loathed him...but put up with him...walking around like his sh*t didn't stink...Chest puffed out...
 
Everyone hated schiano. Like really hated him. So while he would've been a better option he also wouldn't have been an option. He was butch's guy and what these individuals on here don't like to acknowledge is butch was basically ran out of town. Doubt he would've been able to get schiano that job as board would've seen it as a favor to butch.
@dsddcane ...as you remember, His *** ran to Rutgers even before the Sugar Bowl game vs UF.....Butch promoted Chuck as DC for the game...
 
Recruiting today, vs the late 90s are on two entirely different Planets....Your *** had to be an Elite Evaluator back in the day...Even more so down 31 schollies, with a renowned Publication calling for the dismantling of your program....We were avoided like the plague in the eyes of America...and if that wasn't enough...The death of Marlin Barnes was the final straw in the eyes of the public..and more so with Parents and families...Real enticing huh??...It's not all about 4 and 5* kids...its about the work your willing to put in....
 
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I always valued your football knowledge and tend to agree with u alot of the time. What do u think of Diaz right now.
As a recruiter, or more generally?

IMO he’s showing that effort and optimism and excitement and seeming ambitious can up the recruiting at UM. That is good news, but it should really embarrass this program, because it’s easy and obvious a there’s no excuse for doing worse. Now it wears off if you don’t deliver, so we’re lucky with this season so far.

But what I look for in recruiting is different. It’s more about process and evals than selling a few top kids. Do we know what we’re looking for by position? Do we understand our needs by position? Do we have a disciplined process to identify, evaluate, recruit and maintain contact? Does it feel well thought out and well managed? Do we have back up plans and adapt to new information well?

I never thought manny was himself a good recruiter. He clearly understands conceptually that recruiting matters. Can he do it well, sustained? We’ll see. The biggest question will be evals. I have seen no evidence he’s good at them and don’t know whether he has a process to at least create some quality control.

I really hope he figures this out because it’s table stakes to be competitive at UM, but if we become actually good at it, it’s a huge potential advantage for this program given the amount of local talent.
 
But bruh..wouldn’t you admit that recruiting exposure is wayyyy different now than it was back then..we all understand what your saying. And by historical account your correct on plenty of guys. But that ain’t a winning formula today. Yes you have to evaluate. But in 2020 If your evaluation process does not include check marks next to majority of the blue chips in your area, or on your board in general then you likely need to reassess your formula...or you gunna be out here hoping to hit on a LaDarius Gunter at every position alla Al Golden
This is false and crazy. You’re wildly off base on the ranking services. Your eval process should likely consider most local kids they identify. It shouldn’t be biased by them. they’re little more than popularity contests. They are directionally correct because when a lot of schools chase a kid it’s a sign he’s a good prospect. But they don’t know what those school’s real plans are - alabama sends out hundreds of offers and takes 25 kids, not randomly. Also, different schools have different needs, different schemes, different cultures and styles of play - so kids don’t all translate the same way.

the job of evaluators is to evaluate, not compare themselves to lists created by amateurs. that’s crazy.
 
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I agree. Which was my point. They weren't highly rated. Jackson was a three star. ... How about another one. I was watching the Broncos v Chiefs game tonight and you had Jerry Jeudy, undisputed 5-star coming out of HS. You also had Tyreek Hill, who wasn't even in the top 1000 coming out of HS, had to go Juco to get noticed.

Miami absolutely wants a Jerry Jeudy on their team. But they also need to find the Tyreek Hills out there. Especially in So FL, there always a few good ones every year.
Tyreke was a whole other story out of HS. Hence why he went the juco route out of GA. Kid was a RB in HS, JUCO, and a APB at OKST. That would’ve been a hard projection to see were he ended up. But he was known in the 2012 class..look up his highlights
 
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This is false and crazy. You’re wildly off base on the ranking services. Your eval process should likey
consider kids they identify. It shouldn’t be biased by them. they’re nothing more than popularity contests. They are directionally correct because when a lot of schools chase a kid it’s a sign he’s a good prospect. But they don’t know what those school’s real plans are - alabama sends out hundreds of offers and takes 25 kids, not randomly. Also, different schools have different needs, different schemes, different cultures and styles of play - so kids don’t all translate the same way.

the job of evaluators is to evaluate, not compare themselves to lists created by amateurs. that’s crazy.
I’m not saying set up your recruiting board based on 247 😂. Now what u just expained was the al Golden process of “building canes”...I’m saying don’t plan on bringing in Joe brown, alex Gall, Nate dortch, Larry hopes etc then wonder why they didn’t belong at the P5 level. If your evaluation process points you to that direct constantly then you need to reevaluate the process.

do kids get the Bama or OSU bump from a offer/commit sure. But more times then not those kids are indeed among the bests of the bests from a athleticism profile. The recruiting services who go to these camps etc do evaluate these kids separately from schools.

if you bring in top 5–10 classes that are well balanced annually, you have substained success. If not your a every 3 to 4 years type program
 
I’m not saying set up your recruiting board based on 247 😂. Now what u just expained was the al Golden process of “building canes”...I’m saying don’t plan on bringing in Joe brown, alex Gall, Nate dortch, Larry hopes etc then wonder why they didn’t belong at the P5 level. If your evaluation process points you to that direct constantly then you need to reevaluate the process.

do kids get the Bama or OSU bump from a offer/commit sure. But more times then not those kids are indeed among the bests of the bests from a athleticism profile. The recruiting services who go to these camps etc do evaluate these kids separately from schools.

if you bring in top 5–10 classes that are well balanced annually, you have substained success. If not your a every 3 to 4 years type program
Those kids camped with Golden! His problem was he was not good at all at evals, or they'd never have been offered. Also Vernon Davis, Jontavious Carter, D'Mauri Jones, that fullback who was awful, plenty of kids. Brendan Loftus, who he took, you had really knowledgeable FL HS types saying no way was that kid even a D1 prospect. There was no process, no quality control, no clue on some of those evals. Dorito was actually solid at LB evals, IMO, and some of our S evals back then were good (Jaquan, Jenkins, e.g.).

As for the rest of it, you have to separate tail from dog. Cart from horse. Alabama gives a bump to kids because the services know Alabama knows evals. Alabama doesn't target kids because other schools want them. They may notice kids because other schools want them. But they do their own evals, and they have enormous resources dedicated to just that. If you want to know what separates Alabama right now, resources to evaluate is part of it.

When the recruiting cycle is all over, each school has targeted each other's kids and so you wind up with a decent top 10 assessment. But that's useless for recruiting because you have to start recruiting kids years earlier, and you have to do it based on your own evals.
 
That’s what I thought. Yea I remember watching the replay of that star championship game on ESPNu or something way back. Was a man among middle school kids. But there’s no doubt if the recruiting industry was like it is today back then ST26 is more than a local legend in HS. That a why it reminded me of D Henry. Who HS comp was questionable also
So then why you ain't straightening him? Sean god bless the dead,went to killian & transferred out because of his old boy when he wasn't starting or **** near playing period at killian. Channel 7 showed his highlights also cause every Friday night they had a high school football sports segment. Gulliver played everyone else 2a schools played which always included several 5a schools yearly. Sean is my brother and I love him like my own blood. But y'all please just stop with this. Only difference off that list now to then is sean would've been a 5 star. All the rest nowhere close.

Sean was the 1 i said would have been sort of a sleeper, late riser. But an offer from THE BIG 3 back then made you shoot up...and he had the UM, UF offer. But he was one of the ones.

You are correct we have NEVER been the team to land all the Big ones..FSU and sometimes UF were the 2 out of the big 3 that seemed to land those big national recruits more so than us.

Im going to have to disagree on Dre Johnson though....he would essentially be what Jerry Jeudy, Ridley, Amari Cooper was in his recruitment. He was widely known as South Florida's top wr....in any ERA that is considered an ELITE recruit. He was known as that even though he played qb if im not mistaken alot. Like i said 99-00 i was a freshman in high school and had a "free class" with all the football players on my team. Thats where i found out about recruiting and sites like Grassy or Rivals. The person that showed me the sites was one of the National /Elite recruits as he was showing me himself and other top dogs. Andre Johnson WAS DEFINATELY one of if the not the first guy he showed and stated what he was. It was the introduction of GOGETA to the recruiting world ive been hooked ever since.
 
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Those kids camped with Golden! His problem was he was not good at all at evals, or they'd never have been offered. Also Vernon Davis, Jontavious Carter, D'Mauri Jones, that fullback who was awful, plenty of kids. Brendan Loftus, who he took, you had really knowledgeable FL HS types saying no way was that kid even a D1 prospect. There was no process, no quality control, no clue on some of those evals. Dorito was actually solid at LB evals, IMO, and some of our S evals back then were good (Jaquan, Jenkins, e.g.).

As for the rest of it, you have to separate tail from dog. Cart from horse. Alabama gives a bump to kids because the services know Alabama knows evals. Alabama doesn't target kids because other schools want them. They may notice kids because other schools want them. But they do their own evals, and they have enormous resources dedicated to just that. If you want to know what separates Alabama right now, resources to evaluate is part of it.

When the recruiting cycle is all over, each school has targeted each other's kids and so you wind up with a decent top 10 assessment. But that's useless for recruiting because you have to start recruiting kids years earlier, and you have to do it based on your own evals.

Alabama egregiously offers kids. **** they likely offer double the amount of kids than we do (think it was documented). They have that whole recruiting department and their "offer" for the most part is saying they know of you. Alabama gets the bump because they are a top 5 blue blood program with high subscribers which means MONEY for the recruiting sites.
Not because t hey have some "real good eye" for talent better than others. **** they wanted Amari Cooper somewhat as a DB. lmao.

As far as Golden camps, those kids likely showed out at camps. The one problem is....no one likely told him that alot of his camps werent flooded with the top guys in the area. They likely showed out against fcs level talent or kids that work at Metro Pcs currently. So it was easier for the Larry Dortch to show out on a weekend when the other top kids were running in the 7 on 7 tour elsewhere.
 
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