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1999 Era Recruiting vs Today (Derailed Maason Smith thread)

NicKane said:
Again I agree 1000% but again we need the top head coach and top staffs to replicate that again. And that is something we haven’t had in almost 20 years since Butch left. That’s the missing ingredient DSD, always has been and always will be. The problem is now you can’t get those staffs on the cheaper side like you used to be able too. UM has to open up the checkbook and that’s where I have my doubts. Not that they don’t have plenty of money, that they’ve proven they’re to cheap to spend it. Smh
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Ur right when it relates to a staff. We've never had a top head coach with a name coming in since howard or if you really wanna make a far fetched case you could say cmr. Far as staffs go or the head coach it's not about what we're willing to spend. It's about just like with our recruits doing proper evaluations and acting on them. You think it's really that difficult to get a staff with the proper approach and mindset to handle the bigger picture? What football people do we have in all this time since Coker? Few spots sporadically filled in all these years. That's why I laugh with people who doubt mario or anyone that has his mindset. It's not about who mario is as a head coach. It's about understanding the commitment necessary and has the ability to surround himself with like minded individuals... That doesn't take a huge check book. It takes a huge commitment.
 
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pacusmc said:
20 years ago you had to find some kids vhs highlights filmed on some grainy *** camcorder or watch him live. News didn’t travel like it does now.
we just saw some 8th grader throwing on here in HD cause someone posted it.

I still do t understand why people want to compare recruiting today to 20 years ago.
Yes Miami mfer butch did a lot of things that we should do today. But how many of those players that butch hit would be blue chip kids today?
Maybe Ray Lewis wouldn’t be a 5 star. But he shire as **** would’ve had multiple d1 offers.

Talent is great and all. But yes we need dudes that know that cliches sometimes exist for a reasons
Teamwork dedication, perfecting your craft, team over me etc etc.
Problem is all these kids say it but will they do it.
The good recruiters aren’t really the ones who can convince a 5 star to come but can also figure out if that 5 star checks all the boxes besides the ability one.
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This is really mistaken, imo. Butch’s eye would be every bit as relevant today. If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand math. There are about the same number of schools and initial counters. The question is how you allocate your spots. There isn’t much evidence that hype sites are way more accurate today, but even if they are, there’s plenty of evidence that the large denominator of lower rated kids will generate tons of talented nfl players ... the question is can you assess them.

Ray Lewis types come along every year - talented undersized athletes who are risky qualifiers and don’t have the dough to play camps a lot and do t go to big programs. Ray wrestled at 183 as a senior. He’s not a 5* in this era. His offer issue wasn’t talent or awarenesses — it was he wasn’t qualified.
 
Go Canes!! said:
75% of that list were the equivalent of 4-5 star prospects
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You're absolutely right they should've been. However since hindsight don't mean **** you can only stick to the facts. All of them were lightly recruited and in certain instances VERY LIGHTLY RECRUITED. Y'all confuse rankings for more than they are. Reality is every last one of those dudes except two came from poverty. Whether y'all wanna agree with it or not that means they wouldn't have had much of a presence in the camp circuit etc. To have a hudle account is great but guess what,without proper exposure it's worthless. That's why every single ****** year y'all ***** and moan about these kids we should've signed who wanted to be here but we didn't go after and they became monsters elsewhere. You think all these hudle accounts are streamlined to every recruiting coordinator throughout america? Better yet you think most recruiting coordinators give three ***** about most things emailed to them by the average Joe or anyone but a handful of people? That's what's funny. So while they definitely should 100% percent have been very highly recruited dudes in any landscape especially now,it's most certainly not a given and in fact not likely. Y'all have your own perceptions of what this program is now or ever has been. It sure the fvck ain't realistic though.
 
Go Canes!! said:
That is not true at all.
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It's also 100% true. Y'all wanna keep changing up conversations to what you want it to be. The conversation has zero to do with what they should be or what they should be now in today's climate. This is reality of what they were at the time when everyone was actually being recruited. And every one of them was not highly recruited. Anyways y'all have a great night.
 
dsddcane said:
You're absolutely right they should've been. However since hindsight don't mean **** you can only stick to the facts. All of them were lightly recruited and in certain instances VERY LIGHTLY RECRUITED. Y'all confuse rankings for more than they are. Reality is every last one of those dudes except two came from poverty. Whether y'all wanna agree with it or not that means they wouldn't have had much of a presence in the camp circuit etc. To have a hudle account is great but guess what,without proper exposure it's worthless. That's why every single ****** year y'all ***** and moan about these kids we should've signed who wanted to be here but we didn't go after and they became monsters elsewhere. You think all these hudle accounts are streamlined to every recruiting coordinator throughout america? Better yet you think most recruiting coordinators give three ***** about most things emailed to them by the average Joe or anyone but a handful of people? That's what's funny. So while they definitely should 100% percent have been very highly recruited dudes in any landscape especially now,it's most certainly not a given and in fact not likely. Y'all have your own perceptions of what this program is now or ever has been. It sure the fvck ain't realistic though.
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It's not hindsight. Aside from Ed Reed who on this list wasn't an all world player in high school?

Edgerrin James
Reggie Wayne,
Andre Johnson,
Ed Reed,
Willis Mcgahee,
Clinton Portia,
Sean Taylor,
Michael Irvin,
Winslow jr.
 
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If you think about it, evaluation abilities should matter MORE today than in the past, if all these internet changes everything types are correct. Because their theory is that the internet means the concentration of top players is more accurate than before. That means the importance of evaluations is even higher for kids who aren’t top players ... because just on math it’s a thinner pool. Nothing about their argument makes logical sense, imo. Evals are the difference between Coker and Butch.
 
dycane said:
Willis and Andre were as elite as prospects come.
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I didn't mention willis at all since he was mr florida. Don't change what I say cause y'all feel one way or another. Dre was lightly recruited until the end of his cycle. No part of him was elite when it came to recruiting. His offers came late and in large part off of playoffs that's what sealed both him and roscoe. Y'all live in a play play world. Willis was elite. And even if you'd like to say dre was too you're still avoiding what was said because maybe it works more to get the sensationalism involved. Facts are THE VAST MAJORITY OF **** NEAR ALL OF OUR CLASSES WAS KNOWN FOR UNDERVALUED KIDS WE HAD TO DEVELOP...
 
dsddcane said:
I didn't mention willis at all since he was mr florida. Don't change what I say cause y'all feel one way or another. Dre was lightly recruited until the end of his cycle. No part of him was elite when it came to recruiting. His offers came late and in large part off of playoffs that's what sealed both him and roscoe. Y'all live in a play play world. Willis was elite. And even if you'd like to say dre was too you're still avoiding what was said because maybe it works more to get the sensationalism involved. Facts are THE VAST MAJORITY OF **** NEAR ALL OF OUR CLASSES WAS KNOWN FOR UNDERVALUED KIDS WE HAD TO DEVELOP...
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There’s a really important point in here. Folks talk about rankings like final rankings mean something. But it’s irrelevant, because if you’re not recruiting a kid by his junior year, in most cases, forget about it. That’s kind of the point of evals. Find them first. Trust your assessment. Maybe a couple kids get poached by Alabama but so what. That’s always happened. Saying we recruited highly rated kids because of final rankings tells you nothing about how we recruited when it mattered.
 
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Go Canes!! said:
It's not hindsight. Aside from Ed Reed who on this list wasn't an all world player in high school?

Edgerrin James
Reggie Wayne,
Andre Johnson,
Ed Reed,
Willis Mcgahee,
Clinton Portia,
Sean Taylor,
Michael Irvin,
Winslow jr.
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Is that who you're saying I mentioned as examples? Cause it's another blatant lie if so. But if you'd like me to break that down
dsddcane said:
For anyone that wants to argue that fact it's real simple. Or atleast I'll make it simple Dan morgan,Vilma, ray, warren, ed, sean... Do I really gotta keep doing this? I can go on and on. We developed whatever we got and made us all the best possible version of ourselves. Simple. Some of the best ever PERIOD. Fvck just here. Period, EVER IN THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL,COLLEGE,NFL , weren't blue chips at all and they became ICONS right here under coaches most of y'all steady talk **** about...
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There you go. Those are the people I mentioned. I'm more than capable of repeating them also since every last one of them are my brothers at the least. There was one person on that list u mentioned who EVERYONE WAS AFTER that's willis. All the rest try again. Several barely had options. Throw frank into that too. U just tried to say clint when ufag didn't even want him at rb in his own town... Y'all really gotta stop this nonsense sometimes. Only other one that had alot of options was kdub and that was cause of his old boy. Y'all sound crazy
 
Ethnicsands said:
There’s a really important point in here. Folks talk about rankings like final rankings mean something. But it’s irrelevant, because if you’re not recruiting a kid by his junior year, in most cases, forget about it. That’s kind of the point of evals. Find them first. Trust your assessment. Maybe a couple kids get poached by Alabama but so what. That’s always happened. Saying we recruited highly rated kids because of final rankings tells you nothing about how we recruited when it mattered.
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You gotta remember it's always a certain handful of morons who makes the case for everyone. Just like a jury pool if it sounds good they run with it.
 
grover said:
You guys who think all the best kids are already identified, tell me how Lamar Jackson slipped through the cracks. Or our own Greg Rousseau who was a 2 star before we offered him?

Besides, not all 4 and 5 stars are equally as good once you look under the hood. Evals matter. Herbert was a 4 star. How’s he doing? Charlie Jones was a 5 star. How’d he do?
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Rousseau was an obvious athletic eval for anyone who watched film. He was a physical projection who worked out. Some do, some don’t. We found him relatively early, also.

Herbert was overrated, imo. It was obvious back then. Evaluating OL isn’t easy but if nothing pops off the screen at you, then nothing pops off the screen at you. Herbert was big and average, imo.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Man it killed me watching coker recruit. I been following college recruiting since early ‘80s, first cbb then cfb. it was so obvious coker was a clown. the dave howell commitment in like ‘02 was enough for me to see he was clueless.

Coker chased rhyan anderson because ... hype. Sent 5 corches to an in home with joe joseph because hype. had zero idea what talent looked like. still upset about it because we could have kept this going if we’d had a better eval process.

honesty, erickson was similar, just a better coach but also inherited a JJ special team and was ruining it when he left.
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When it relates to ericson himself I'd agree although he atleast had an eye for certain positions. But he had a good staff in place. Problem is when head guys have zero clue how to delegate and who to delegate authority to. Sad part is Coker would tell you himself he didn't know what he was doing and wasn't ready for what he stepped into.
 
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dsddcane said:
Is that who you're saying I mentioned as examples? Cause it's another blatant lie if so. But if you'd like me to break that downs

There you go. Those are the people I mentioned. I'm more than capable of repeating them also since every last one of them are my brothers at the least. There was one person on that list u mentioned who EVERYONE WAS AFTER that's willis. All the rest try again. Several barely had options. Throw frank into that too. U just tried to say clint when ufag didn't even want him at rb in his own town... Y'all really gotta stop this nonsense sometimes. Only other one that had alot of options was kdub and that was cause of his old boy. Y'all sound crazy
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All I did was respond to Zbrod when he said most of the above list wouldn't be in the Top 300.

I got no dog in any other fight.

I have always loved and respected the way the U brought out the best in guys the way no other school could. It's my favorite part of who we are, or were.
 
dsddcane said:
When it relates to ericson himself I'd agree although he atleast had an eye for certain positions. But he had a good staff in place. Problem is when head guys have zero clue how to delegate and who to delegate authority to. Sad part is Coker would tell you himself he didn't know what he was doing and wasn't ready for what he stepped into.
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Agreed, just pointing out the recruit off list mentality. For all his flaws, DE was a real coach who got hired twice by nfl teams. Coker was just there when butch quit.
 
dsddcane said:
When it relates to ericson himself I'd agree although he atleast had an eye for certain positions. But he had a good staff in place. Problem is when head guys have zero clue how to delegate and who to delegate authority to. Sad part is Coker would tell you himself he didn't know what he was doing and wasn't ready for what he stepped into.
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I know you were around in that general time, and the story has been told that the players pretty much forced Dee into hiring Coker. Ignoring the fact that Alvarez would have been the successor, have any of the guys that forced Dee into Coker ever regretted that ultimatum with how it turned out after 02?
 
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grover said:
You guys who think all the best kids are already identified, tell me how Lamar Jackson slipped through the cracks. Or our own Greg Rousseau who was a 2 star before we offered him?

Besides, not all 4 and 5 stars are equally as good once you look under the hood. Evals matter. Herbert was a 4 star. How’s he doing? Charlie Jones was a 5 star. How’d he do?

I actually think the Golden and Richt camps were a good first step to getting back to proper Evals and finding high quality under the radar kids. We found Flowers that way before anyone else got to him. Make the local kids the priority and charge them little to nothing to get D1 coaching along with coaching from the best local coaches who participate so they’ll come.

We just need to do more of this, and the coaches need more local guys like Geta and Macho to surface the real talents that aren’t nationally recognized yet.

Personally, I’m really happy with the 2021 evals. Chase Smith is an absolute monster. Big Baby wasn’t even in the top 300 when he committed. People drool over Brooks but Brinson is better. Rodriguez is going to be the new Feliciano. We’ve got some real talent across the board and it wasn’t because coaches focused on rankings.
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A post saying all our commits are underrated, never seen one of these.
 
wspcane said:
I know you were around in that general time, and the story has been told that the players pretty much forced Dee into hiring Coker. Ignoring the fact that Alvarez would have been the successor, have any of the guys that forced Dee into Coker ever regretted that ultimatum with how it turned out after 02?
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It’s unfair to those kids to even ask the question like that. Dee was a professional manager who should have known better. These were college kids. They won their title with coker anyhow. What sort of regrets are they supposed to have?
 
wspcane said:
I know you were around in that general time, and the story has been told that the players pretty much forced Dee into hiring Coker. Ignoring the fact that Alvarez would have been the successor, have any of the guys that forced Dee into Coker ever regretted that ultimatum with how it turned out after 02?
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Of course. Some saw it as an exchange while others saw it as temporary. Hindsight has a way of doing that to us all.
 
Ethnicsands said:
It’s unfair to those kids to even ask the question like that. Dee was a professional manager who should have known better. These were college kids. They won their title with coker anyhow. What sort of regrets are they supposed to have?
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It's a fair question though. While it fell on paul it was in reality shalallalalala that brought along our death. While others wanted to turn us into a certain type of school she was the first one flat out committed to it. Perception was what really matters to her. And I'll personally say over and over as good of a coach as barry alvarez was he would've been a death sentence to us as a program. Even more so than Coker proved to be. Atleast with Coker we got one in,should've been two. With alvarez we were done asap.
 
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