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1999 Era Recruiting vs Today (Derailed Maason Smith thread)

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Ethnicsands said:
Of those guys, Only Seantrel was a 5*. Anderson ... did he ever play at UM?

Jordan, Thomas, AQM were 4* kids.
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No ****e.

It's a very fine line to set the bar for "out-of-state five stars". It's stupid. There are only 25-30 five-stars per year, and some are from Florida. So to sit around and act like Miami is supposed to sign out-of-state five stars every year (or we suck if we don't) is just ridiculous. And to draw a conclusion that top out-of-state recruits won't pick Miami is similarly ridiculous. It is always going to be an infrequent occurrence, no matter how well we recruit, just based on geographic preferences.

I gave the names of out-of-state recruits who would have had an offer from any school in the country. All of those kids were Top 50, so pretty **** close to being 5-stars (which is different from a 4-star who is ranked at #250). Brevin and Jeff just barely missed the 247 5-star ranking, and it is just insane to conclude that there is any sort of marked differential between a kid who is ranked #30 (and a 5 star) and one who is ranked #31 (and a 4 star). That's why I gave the actual rankings. All of those kids were in the 5 star discussion, that much is certain.

And, yes, the inclusion of Latwan Anderson was a joke, as he never played at Miami (though under Gaytor Mathz rules, he counts).
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
No ****e.

It's a very fine line to set the bar for "out-of-state five stars". It's stupid. There are only 25-30 five-stars per year, and some are from Florida. So to sit around and act like Miami is supposed to sign out-of-state five stars every year (or we suck if we don't) is just ridiculous. And to draw a conclusion that top out-of-state recruits won't pick Miami is similarly ridiculous. It is always going to be an infrequent occurrence, no matter how well we recruit, just based on geographic preferences.

I gave the names of out-of-state recruits who would have had an offer from any school in the country. All of those kids were Top 50, so pretty **** close to being 5-stars (which is different from a 4-star who is ranked at #250). Brevin and Jeff just barely missed the 247 5-star ranking, and it is just insane to conclude that there is any sort of marked differential between a kid who is ranked #30 (and a 5 star) and one who is ranked #31 (and a 4 star). That's why I gave the actual rankings. All of those kids were in the 5 star discussion, that much is certain.

And, yes, the inclusion of Latwan Anderson was a joke, as he never played at Miami (though under Gaytor Mathz rules, he counts).
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You seem to be hot about stuff that I didn’t comment on. 5* may be a judgment call, but it’s not a grey area. Either you is or you ain't. The comment was about out of state 5*s. Maybe you want to change the debate. Is there a difference between a marginal 5* and a high 4*? You can play that game forever. Depends on evals, I guess.

I made no comment about what Miami should do or be expected to do, in any case. You’re responding to what you perceive others to think.

Anderson and Thomas did not have offers from everyone, that’s not correct. There were issues that explain that, in retrospect quite clearly.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
You seem to be hot about stuff that I didn’t comment on. 5* may be a judgment call, but it’s not a grey area. Either you is or you ain't. The comment was about out of state 5*s. Maybe you want to change the debate. Is there a difference between a marginal 5* and a high 4*? You can play that game forever. Depends on evals, I guess.

I made no comment about what Miami should do or be expected to do, in any case. You’re responding to what you perceive others to think.

Anderson and Thomas did not have offers from everyone, that’s not correct. There were issues that explain that, in retrospect quite clearly.
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I'm not hot about anything and I didn't start the debate.

I'm pointing out that it is silly to whine and mope all the time about how we shouldn't bother recruiting certain guys and we "don't have a shot" with certain guys. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but it's silly to sit here and nitpick Top 50 recruits.

That is all.

Miami is very well-liked by "national recruits", even if we don't end up signing most of those guys. It's time to convert a few of these to wins. I'm just tired of the nonstop moping.
 
If we keep winning, especially if we win out (Covid schedule permitting) and end the year with 10/11 wins, that very well could be enough to convince the big man to come down to Coral Gables.

Nothing's impossible AND, even though we haven't seen it nearly 2 decades, nothing is more enticing and exciting in CFB than a truly elite Cane team. CFB needs the "Bad Guys" to come back and be the Mike Tyson of the college gridiron again!
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I'm not hot about anything and I didn't start the debate.

I'm pointing out that it is silly to whine and mope all the time about how we shouldn't bother recruiting certain guys and we "don't have a shot" with certain guys. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but it's silly to sit here and nitpick Top 50 recruits.

That is all.

Miami is very well-liked by "national recruits", even if we don't end up signing most of those guys. It's time to convert a few of these to wins. I'm just tired of the nonstop moping.
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Youre obviously responding to ‘other people.’ I’m not very concerned about OOS 5* kids. I tend to agree with @DMoney, we should focus local until we get that right and can justify going further. I simply responded in this exchange to comment on some inaccuracies being tossed sround about certain names.

Your argument about top 50 is all the same, however, I completely disagree with. There are top 50 kids who are very overrated, and top 50 kids who are nfl bound barring injury. There are also next 100 kids who we’d take over top 50 kids in some instances. What matters isn’t their ‘ranking’ by fan site services. It’s the staff’s evals (if they’re good at it).
 
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Ethnicsands said:
Youre obviously responding to ‘other people.’ I’m not very concerned about OOS 5* kids. I tend to agree with @DMoney, we should focus local until we get that right and can justify going further. I simply responded in this exchange to comment on some inaccuracies being tossed sround about certain names.

Your argument about top 50 is all the same, however, I completely disagree with. There are top 50 kids who are very overrated, and top 50 kids who are nfl bound barring injury. There are also next 100 kids who we’d take over top 50 kids in some instances. What matters isn’t their ‘ranking’ by fan site services. It’s the staff’s evals (if they’re good at it).
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This is the predictable part where certain posters (and you can include yourself in this) completely miss the point and begin to argue irrelevant minutiae.

The part of the conversation that I was referring to, and responding to, had to do with whether top out-of-state talent will come to Miami ("how long has it been since an OOS 5-star picked Miami"). You lost sight of that and are arguing about whether Top 50 kids are overrated.

NOT the point.

So, let's sum up. I'm not mad or hot or salty or anything. I just think this "Miami doesn't have a chance" mopiness is soft and reductive.

And all of your points on "overrated" apply to the Top 50 recruits (Florida or out-of-state) as well as it does to Top 500 recruits. Anyone can be overrated. Evaluations can be wrong. But, not the point.

If you were trying to back-door argue that Maason Smith is overrated, that's up to you. But the basics of the debate, prior to your contributions, were focused on whether we should just give up on Maason Smith, because he is an out-of-state 5 star.

Now, this part of my response does NOT apply to you. The phenomenon of soft-batch Miami "fans" who whine and complain about how they have been "hurt" by all of Miami's failings over the past 15 years, and how they can't trust recruiting, and they can't trust winning...are just PATHETIC.

Miami won't sign another OOS 5-star until we do. Maybe it will be Maason Smith. But I'm not some pvssy fan who is going to try to be "real" by being pessimistic so that I "don't get my hopes up" and "be crushed when he picks LSU".

We've got a shot. And I refuse to give up until he signs someone else's LOI.

Miami fans need to rediscover their pride.
 
darius19 said:
I’ve actually heard that we do have a chance here. It will be an uphill battle for sure, the kid has a lot of people in his ear (for different reasons), but he still stands by the fact that our defense is the best fit for his scheme.

let’s see how we close out the season...
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Momentum is a **** of a drug. After dropping Burns and apparently Collins, that leaves 5 spots. I wouldn't be that surprised if Miamis next 4 signees are M. Brown, Garcia (apparently J. Williams is in his ear everyday), Hood (flips after Harbaugh gets canned), and Payton. That finish would generate a lot of buzz, and Smith might see enough promise in Miami that he wants to close out the class.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
This is the predictable part where certain posters (and you can include yourself in this) completely miss the point and begin to argue irrelevant minutiae.

The part of the conversation that I was referring to, and responding to, had to do with whether top out-of-state talent will come to Miami ("how long has it been since an OOS 5-star picked Miami"). You lost sight of that and are arguing about whether Top 50 kids are overrated.

NOT the point.

So, let's sum up. I'm not mad or hot or salty or anything. I just think this "Miami doesn't have a chance" mopiness is soft and reductive.

And all of your points on "overrated" apply to the Top 50 recruits (Florida or out-of-state) as well as it does to Top 500 recruits. Anyone can be overrated. Evaluations can be wrong. But, not the point.

If you were trying to back-door argue that Maason Smith is overrated, that's up to you. But the basics of the debate, prior to your contributions, were focused on whether we should just give up on Maason Smith, because he is an out-of-state 5 star.

Now, this part of my response does NOT apply to you. The phenomenon of soft-batch Miami "fans" who whine and complain about how they have been "hurt" by all of Miami's failings over the past 15 years, and how they can't trust recruiting, and they can't trust winning...are just PATHETIC.

Miami won't sign another OOS 5-star until we do. Maybe it will be Maason Smith. But I'm not some pvssy fan who is going to try to be "real" by being pessimistic so that I "don't get my hopes up" and "be crushed when he picks LSU".

We've got a shot. And I refuse to give up until he signs someone else's LOI.

Miami fans need to rediscover their pride.
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You apparently responded to me in error. I didn’t make the argument you’re hot in your underwear to respond to. That is the source of the confusion here. I simply commented on some names you or someone else tossed out as ‘evidence.’. You’re debating with others or with yourself, but not with me.
 
Ivins spoke to Hood recently. He's likely NOT siging in December. Says he is still solid to Michigan but wants to visit. also said Maryland and Minnesota and Miami are all still talking to him. Occasionally other schools reach out but those three are constant. Didn't give off the vibe from what he said that he was at all interested in the Canes...
 
Hoyacane1620 said:
Ivins spoke to Hood recently. He's likely NOT siging in December. Says he is still solid to Michigan but wants to visit. also said Maryland and Minnesota and Miami are all still talking to him. Occasionally other schools reach out but those three are constant. Didn't give off the vibe from what he said that he was at all interested in the Canes...
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Obviously he wants to play for a school whose name starts with an M. Perhaps McNeese St. is also being considered.
 
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