🚨🚨 ¡ MIKE RUMPH ! 🚨🚨

[Canes Brotherhood]

Not true.

Pass defense stats have been posted. We can rail against missing on 4 CBs over 3 years ago, but you can't dispute the statistical production that exceeds the overall level (at least as evaluated and rated while in high school).

The success of the stats posted correlates to our elite pass rushing. U know that. U want to talk stats. Since he’s been here we’ve ranked 42nd in the country In interceptions. Any comment on DVD is more liked in this community by players, coaches and parents?

 

[Canes Brotherhood]

Troof.

Brother, I have a feeling we know several people in the know. Let’s leave it there.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Banda recruits all over the place. He was huge on Chaneys recruitment for an example. He’s huge in Marshall with the cooneys. As I’ve posted to nauseasm he’s spread all over the place because him and fields are the best guys.

Rumph has admitted he saw a shrink to help with recruiting, at least he saw the issue.

I agree with you. I've tried to look at this from all angles. I've never said "Never fire Rumph", I just think we've had a lot of other problems, and he is not "Problem #1 that needs to be solved".

I think he's a very above-average coach, but he has always been a quiet person personality-wise (at least around campus, maybe he's more animated on the field). I think his introverted nature makes it hard for him to recruit.

I do think Rumph is working on things. ****, I was in a fraternity, some guys could rush, some couldn't. It's harder and more complicated when rushing/recruiting is a part of the job description.

 

[NorthEastCane]

I can go down the list. But I won’t, why? Because the issue isn’t just “top targets” missed. His biggest target he is accredited to isn’t even a DB. It’s Nesta. Blades jr is next but he’s literally Cane royalty. After that Keonta and Frierson were primarily recruited by Banda. So the fact that Rumph aims at these big targets and whiffs and tries to double back to local or small time studs and whiffs again is our issue. Fact is Rumph waits 12 mins before NSD is done to grab a decent to great player L... and this is each year. Kudos to him for grabbing CW4 last min kudos to him for grabbing that Cb last year. Why couldn’t he literally do this the entire year. Instead of waiting til the 11th hr.

I know I'm coming across as a Rumph apologist but I can't be judgmental without being in the recruiting planning sessions. We all know his short comings. Richt and Diaz would be foolish if they weren't also aware. It's hard to believe that either would let Rumph be in charge of the CB board. If anyone has inside information, I'm all ears.

When I was young my father once told me "if you have to get laid pick up the ugliest girl in the bar. If she won't lay you, nobody will". Recruiting is the same way. If you're in the situation we've been in, get the plan B committed first (someone that can play at UM not a jag). Someone like Asante Samuels. Get one in the sack before shooting for the stars. If you do the reverse, the plan B will probably tell you to pound sand when recycling to her after you've been rejected by the big ****ed blond.

 

[canenok]

IMO the misses the haters referring to, Surtain, Campbell, Jobe and Stevenson rejected the U standing as a program not an indictment of Rumph. They all choose to go to alabaga and jawga. Both programs top 4 playoffs teams and us with below average facilities, Golden and Richt as HC. Them not coming had nothing to do with Rumph and everything to do with the status of the program.

There’s a lot of truth in this. They were rejecting Miami the program and not necessarily Rumph. Albeit he was their HS coach and known most of them since they were little kids. Some of the Rumph criticism comes from how Q. Wilson and CJ Henderson’s recruitment were handled as well. I still think he’s more of a benefit than liability, and if we get Marshall all is definitely forgiven.

 

[MiamiChris]

this. hes prolly one of if not our best coach from a teaching aspect (aside from the new O staff who we havent seen yet). hes just not a recruiter. as long as you can make up for his deficiencies in recruiting with an elite support staff youre fine (which manny seems to have done)

This is true

 

[Allabouttheu95]

This is my question. How is this sustainable though? We lose cooney or dvd and we’re back to square one of awkward Rumph on the trail? From a business standpoint it makes zero sense to keep him and patke on the same staff. One has to go. I would prefer Patke obviously but both are replaceable as ****. These guys jobs as position coaches is 75% recruiting. We can’t have two lame ducks as cruiters. 1 is manageable.

 

[NorthEastCane]

There’s a lot of truth in this. They were rejecting Miami the program and not necessarily Rumph. Albeit he was their HS coach and known most of them since they were little kids. Some of the Rumph criticism comes from how Q. Wilson and CJ Henderson’s recruitment were handled as well. I still think he’s more of a benefit than liability, and if we get Marshall all is definitely forgiven.

I believe Q Wilson (and the whole family) was poisoned by Golden. Should we hang Vernon Hargrave III on him too?

Let's be honest, CB recruiting has been a schit show since (should I say it) Butch was here. The only 5*s in 20 years have been Tracy Howard and Brandon Harris. Shields was only a CB in his senior year.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

The success of the stats posted correlates to our elite pass rushing. U know that. U want to talk stats. Since he’s been here we’ve ranked 42nd in the country In interceptions. Any comment on DVD is more liked in this community by players, coaches and parents?

Oh good lord, what a bunch of nitpicking silliness.

I'm not going to spend much time on the chicken-egg argument when it comes to pass rush and pass defense. You know what leads to more sacks? Better coverage? So you can just take the one-directional nonsense and stuff it.

Nobody denies that we have had good pass-rush. But, again, how many of those guys have been NFL-caliber and drafted as such? 6 defensive linemen have been drafted the last 4 years. 6 DBs have been drafted the last 4 years. So, fine, I'll put the DB squad on the same level as the DL squad when it comes to development. Happy now?

As for the number of INTs, that can be improved upon by getting a few more guys that are another 0.1 faster in the 40, or who have 1 extra recruiting star. Again, when you look at the passing yardage stats and the pass defense stats, they are much higher than the interception rankings. More importantly, the "interceptions" stat is feast-or-famine:

2016 - 8 INTs - T-#93 in Division I-A, T-#105 on a per-game basis
2017 - 17 INTs - T-#15 in Division I-A, T-#12 on a per-game basis
2018 - 16 INTs - T-#16 in Division I-A, T-#14 on a per-game basis
2019 - 10 INTs - T-#61 in Division I-A, T-#50 on a per-game basis

So, does this mean that Rumph was a great coach in 2017 and 2018, and a terrible coach in 2016 and 2019? **** no, the difference from our worst year to our best year is less than one dropped INT per game. This is just what happens when "stats" have a small sample size. I realize that the 4-year stats rank in the mid-40s, but if you just drop 2016, suddenly it goes to Top 25-30.

As for DVD, I completely understand the "likeability", but we really don't have any data on DVD's position coach teaching techniques. Should we have a popularity contest for position coaching jobs? Why the **** not. Or let's just try to hire Neon Deion, I'm sure he is well-liked too.

Just be honest, you want to ignore holistic stats like passing yardage and passing efficiency and put all your eggs in the "INTs" bucket, just because it supports your contentions that "Rumph sucks" and "Miami should hire more popular coaches".

Yeah, I'm gonna pass on those types of conclusions. Rumph may not be a good recruiter, but he's a pretty good position coach. And, yes, I'd like to see our DBs drop fewer INTs.

 

[canenok]

I believe Q Wilson (and the whole family) was poisoned by Golden. Should we hang Vernon Hargrave III on him too?

Let's be honest, CB recruiting has been a schit show since (should I say it) Butch was here. The only 5*s in 20 years have been Tracy Howard and Brandon Harris. Shields was only a CB in his senior year.

I can only speak about Q. Wilson and CJ. Not that they chose to go elsewhere, but that Both wanted to be Canes and their recruitment was Foolishly mishandled. Misses are one thing, but QW and CJ were unforced errors. That’s the criticism I think is warranted. Also during that stretch there were several Very Good local players that didn’t get offers some late in the process who went and balled out at other schools. All while Miami’s CB depth was thin.

 

[NorthEastCane]

This is my question. How is this sustainable though? We lose cooney or dvd and we’re back to square one of awkward Rumph on the trail? From a business standpoint it makes zero sense to keep him and patke on the same staff. One has to go. I would prefer Patke obviously but both are replaceable as ****. These guys jobs as position coaches is 75% recruiting. We can’t have two lame ducks as cruiters. 1 is manageable.

No it's not sustainable. But I beg to differ on the job being 75% recruiting. These kids don't coach themselves. If that were the case, how can you explain we have only one Coastal title in 20 years losing to the likes of FIU and getting shut out in a bowl game by La Tech? It wasn't talent. Year in and year out we had more talent than anyone except Clemson and F$U.

 

[Canes Brotherhood]

Oh good lord, what a bunch of nitpicking silliness.

I'm not going to spend much time on the chicken-egg argument when it comes to pass rush and pass defense. You know what leads to more sacks? Better coverage? So you can just take the one-directional nonsense and stuff it.

Nobody denies that we have had good pass-rush. But, again, how many of those guys have been NFL-caliber and drafted as such? 6 defensive linemen have been drafted the last 4 years. 6 DBs have been drafted the last 4 years. So, fine, I'll put the DB squad on the same level as the DL squad when it comes to development. Happy now?

As for the number of INTs, that can be improved upon by getting a few more guys that are another 0.1 faster in the 40, or who have 1 extra recruiting star. Again, when you look at the passing yardage stats and the pass defense stats, they are much higher than the interception rankings. More importantly, the "interceptions" stat is feast-or-famine:

2016 - 8 INTs - T-#93 in Division I-A, T-#105 on a per-game basis
2017 - 17 INTs - T-#15 in Division I-A, T-#12 on a per-game basis
2018 - 16 INTs - T-#16 in Division I-A, T-#14 on a per-game basis
2019 - 10 INTs - T-#61 in Division I-A, T-#50 on a per-game basis

So, does this mean that Rumph was a great coach in 2017 and 2018, and a terrible coach in 2016 and 2019? **** no, the difference from our worst year to our best year is less than one dropped INT per game. This is just what happens when "stats" have a small sample size. I realize that the 4-year stats rank in the mid-40s, but if you just drop 2016, suddenly it goes to Top 25-30.

As for DVD, I completely understand the "likeability", but we really don't have any data on DVD's position coach teaching techniques. Should we have a popularity contest for position coaching jobs? Why the **** not. Or let's just try to hire Neon Deion, I'm sure he is well-liked too.

Just be honest, you want to ignore holistic stats like passing yardage and passing efficiency and put all your eggs in the "INTs" bucket, just because it supports your contentions that "Rumph sucks" and "Miami should hire more popular coaches".

Yeah, I'm gonna pass on those types of conclusions. Rumph may not be a good recruiter, but he's a pretty good position coach. And, yes, I'd like to see our DBs drop fewer INTs.

Listen I don’t hate Rumph. I think he’s a nice guy but I believe we could do better. Recruiting has become such a huge job now. Also not turning around for the ball drives me nuts. We will see what happens this year.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

This is my question. How is this sustainable though? We lose cooney or dvd and we’re back to square one of awkward Rumph on the trail? From a business standpoint it makes zero sense to keep him and patke on the same staff. One has to go. I would prefer Patke obviously but both are replaceable as ****. These guys jobs as position coaches is 75% recruiting. We can’t have two lame ducks as cruiters. 1 is manageable.

Sustainable? Position coaches and staffers move on all the time. Banda is still on staff. If you think everyone will leave all at once, I'm not saying it will never happen, but then you have to hire other guys. Losing 3 high-quality recruiters, and then immediately replacing them, would not be ideal, but I'm not sure how that turns Rumph from a "good coach, not so great recruiter" into "fire him immediately". Seems like it would be better to just hire three good (new) recruiting guys.

 

[Allabouttheu95]

No it's not sustainable. But I beg to differ on the job being 75% recruiting. These kids don't coach themselves. If that were the case, how can you explain we have only one Coastal title in 20 years losing to the likes of FIU and getting shut out in a bowl game by La Tech? It wasn't talent. Year in and year out we had more talent than anyone except Clemson and F$U.

Recruiting is 365 days a year give or take a few days. On field coaching is a fraction of that

but I agree with you 100% in regards to talent

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Listen I don’t hate Rumph. I think he’s a nice guy but I believe we could do better. Recruiting has become such a huge job now. Also not turning around for the ball drives me nuts. We will see what happens this year.

OK, and that's a very fair sentiment. That is something we can all get behind.

I think Rumph has taken some steps forward by working with a performance coach on the recruiting issues. I'm not sure if, for 2020-2021, we just kinda said "hey, this is super-important, let's put all our best guys on the job and let Rumph observe", but I do think there will come a time (soon) when Rumph will be asked to do more recruiting, and it could be more of a "publish or perish" type situation.

And I definitely agree with you on the turn-around-for-the ball scenario, as well as the dropping-easy-INTs problem.

It's just weird to be so good for 2 years, and then have a drop-off, with largely the same personnel, scheme, and coaches. I think a lot of it has to do with situational stuff. If you think about it, I do believe that the 2019 drop-off in INTs is due to the fact that we were not jumping out to early leads, which causes the other team to throw the ball more, and with more desperation. I honestly believe that if pEnos had staked us to more leads, the secondary would have feasted on INTs last year.

 

[Canes Brotherhood]

OK, and that's a very fair sentiment. That is something we can all get behind.

I think Rumph has taken some steps forward by working with a performance coach on the recruiting issues. I'm not sure if, for 2020-2021, we just kinda said "hey, this is super-important, let's put all our best guys on the job and let Rumph observe", but I do think there will come a time (soon) when Rumph will be asked to do more recruiting, and it could be more of a "publish or perish" type situation.

And I definitely agree with you on the turn-around-for-the ball scenario, as well as the dropping-easy-INTs problem.

It's just weird to be so good for 2 years. I think a lot of it has to do with situational stuff. If you think about it, I do believe that the 2019 drop-off in INTs is that we were not jumping out to early leads, which causes the other team to throw the ball more, and with more desperation. I honestly believe that if pEnos had staked us to more leads, the secondary would have feasted on more INTs last year.

I agree. This is a big year for him.

 

[NorthEastCane]

I can only speak about Q. Wilson and CJ. Not that they chose to go elsewhere, but that Both wanted to be Canes and their recruitment was Foolishly mishandled. Misses are one thing, but QW and CJ were unforced errors. That’s the criticism I think is warranted. Also during that stretch there were several Very Good local players that didn’t get offers some late in the process who went and balled out at other schools. All while Miami’s CB depth was thin.

Much of what you're talking about are missed evaluations and faulty recruiting strategy. I still don't understand Golden's thinking when he blew off Chad Wilson (a legacy no less) and screwed the pooch with the whole clan. I don't understand not getting the core of our class signed with the "very good local players" (that are not jags) before chasing the 5*s. After all that's where our bread and butter was back in the day.

My point is that it's been an issue for some time. That's the situation that Rumph walked into, someone who's to begin with is a "recruiting-challenged" individual. He's part of it now but you can't hang all of it on him.

 

[ristwasdown]

What the **** is this abomination of a thread. Imagine if this continued in the j marsh thread. 200 posts

 

[Calinative]

IDGAF the first person on this staff that needs to be fired is Patke. Banda can be ST coach or something. It's not like Patke is some expert in how our kicker/punters need to be using their plant foot and the gunner need to be running down the fiel...

Next if our defense doesn't perform or Diaz needs to take back over with playcalling is Baker. I will never understand having 3 Linebacker coaches (Diaz, Baker - ILBs, and Patke - Striker). At least Baker seems to have recruited some LBs, Patke hasn't done **** I don't think.

Rumph I'd want to replace him with someone better at actually teaching the position, but that'll definitely cost more money. I'm fine with having One teacher and one recruiter for DB coaches, as long for the recruiter recruits S and CBs at a high level and the teacher teaches both at a high level. They gotta pick up eachothers slack.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I can only speak about Q. Wilson and CJ. Not that they chose to go elsewhere, but that Both wanted to be Canes and their recruitment was Foolishly mishandled. Misses are one thing, but QW and CJ were unforced errors. That’s the criticism I think is warranted. Also during that stretch there were several Very Good local players that didn’t get offers some late in the process who went and balled out at other schools. All while Miami’s CB depth was thin.

I can understand the situation with CJ, but with Quincy (and Marco) it's just bizarre. I certainly know that changes at a university may allow an alumnus to decide not to send his kids there, but how do "unforced errors" cause a freaking UM alum (Chad) to become so embittered towards his alma mater? I mean, we've signed some kids whose fathers went to F$U and I don't remember those fathers spitting bile at F$U the way that Chad did with UM.

I agree with the late-CB-offers thing, but if memory serves, this was for 3-star guys, not blue-chip 4-star/5-star types, correct?